Extreme heat in army tanks endangers troops; forces use tank blanket to keep troops from baking

[Lance Wiebe]

This is such a great rumour, even better because it originates in Germany. 

The Leopard 2A4 is the most basic model of Leo 2 out there.  Most have been rebuilt to the A4 standard from their original A1/A2/A3 version.  There are new built A4's, of course, but at least half of the A4's are twenty years old.

The Leo2A5 are mostly upgraded A4's, with additional armour, turret electric drive, and the L55 cannon.  Hence, they ar getting older as well.

The A6 are new built tanks, and are priced accordingly.  The "M" variant has a few extra tons of armour on the bottom for mine protection.

To me, it wouldn't make sense to lease 20 Leo2A6, and buy Leo2A4.  There's too much difference from the training and maintenance perspective.  It would make imminent sense however, to buy the Leo2A5, as they are near identical to the A6.

The largest learning curve will be for the commander.  While the gunner's positions won't take much getting used too, there is no similarity between the C2 and the A5/A6 for the commander.

Man, I sure hope that this is one rumour that turns in to fact!

 

[ironduke57]

The Leo2A5 are mostly upgraded A4's, with additional armour, turret electric drive, and the L55 cannon.  Hence, they ar getting older as well.

Sorry to correct you, but the A5 has the L44 cannon.

The A6 are new built tanks, and are priced accordingly.

At least the A6 in german service are not new built. They are refitted A5.

It would make imminent sense however, to buy the Leo2A5, as they are near identical to the A6.

The problem is that AFAIK there are no A5 for sell. And BTW A5 and A6 are identical only the L55 cannon is the difference.

Regards,
ironduke57

 

[Lance Wiebe]

A while back, when I was visiting KMW, I was in a new built A6.  I was also in a Leo 2A5 that was a rebuilt A4, but was fitted with the L55.  That may have been a one-off, or a trial vehicle, but I know I was in both tanks.

There was quite the assembly line for the A6, I'm sure that there are quite a few more new A6 than the 40 Leo2A6M!

 

[Colin Parkinson]

I think the pushing the fact that this purchase is meant to protect the lives of Canadian soldiers because of it’s increased protection,  both in the current and future missions that Canada faces. Focusing on the increased fighting ability will feed the critics, selling it on crew protection means that the critics must take the position that they do not value the lives of Canadian soldiers.

 

[geo]

Lance,  we might not be able to jump the queue to get shiny new kit right now... same as we can't take delivery of C17, CH47, C130s etc, etc ahead of anyone else already in line.

Big point here is that if we take immediate delivery and ship some of em straight to KAF, then there is no doubt that we will have standard german kit and not have those mods we have put into the Leo1C2s.  Thus, troopers are going to have a steep learning curve.

Are we better off ordering some Leo2A4s or hold out for some Leo2A5s?
after paying 300K for a 4, how much would it cost to bring em up to a 5 level?
(As the Germans are interested in supporting german industry, I would gather they want to produce new tanks, the Bundeswerh will prolly be buying more NEW than upgrade kits)

 

[ironduke57]

A while back, when I was visiting KMW, I was in a new built A6.  I was also in a Leo 2A5 that was a rebuilt A4, but was fitted with the L55.  That may have been a one-off, or a trial vehicle, but I know I was in both tanks.

There was quite the assembly line for the A6, I'm sure that there are quite a few more new A6 than the 40 Leo2A6M!

Sure there are production facility for new A6, but I said that at least all A6 in german service are refitted. But greece, spain and so got some brand new ones which where build here.
I am not quite sure if the A6M in german service also a refitted A6 or if they where new build, but I have my doubt´s that they are new.

That "A5" with the an L55 was probably an test vehicle. Any A5 has already the needed change´s on the hydraulics to compensate the additional back-thrust force of the L55. Maybe that one was not the final A6 version so the people called it A5. The only real difference between the A5 and A6 is the cannon. I think we can agree on that.

Regards,
ironduke57

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Better a bird in the hand than a possible program cancelled by the Liberals.

 

[IN HOC SIGNO]

Better a bird in the hand than a possible program cancelled by the Liberals.

Here here! and to answer another query yes I've noticed CASR's bias and took them off my favorites list because of it....I just don't read it anymore

 

[MarkOttawa]

CP reporter David Ebner can't quite get it right:
http://www.rbcinvest.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/ArticleNews/PEstory/LAC/20070212/TANKS12/national/national/national/6/6/16/

Defence officials have denied media reports that Canada is buying additional German tanks for use in Afghanistan...

...I'm telling you that no decision has been taken," said Tanya Barnes, a spokeswoman for the Department of National Defence.

"The Canadian Forces are constantly assessing requirements for operations, but there's no decision taken. Any such decision would have to be approved by the government. So that's all the information I have on that right now for you."..

Mark
Ottawa

 

[FormerHorseGuard]

i think the news people are surfing here to get quotes and stuff.......they seem to follow along with what is posted here at times after a small story it grows

 

[IN HOC SIGNO]

i think the news people are surfing here to get quotes and stuff.......they seem to follow along with what is posted here at times after a small story it grows

You are not incorrect.

 

[Justacivvy]

Yep all I've been seeing are rumors off news sites and nothing from DND yet

 

[George Wallace]

If "Tanks" are outside of your Lanes; please don't post.  I have just witnessed several posts in this topic that are complete rubbish.  Sailors and others making comments of things totally outside of their Lanes, does not in any way help the discussion. 

eerickso , your post was borderline racist.

Learning curves are no helped by buying the cheapest oldest model of a tank.  The 'Learning Curve' to go from a Leo 1 C2 to a Leo 2 A4 is still fairly steep.  To acquire A4's and A 6's is only going to create TWO 'Learning Curves' that crews will have to go through.  You are wasting time and resources.

 

[FormerHorseGuard]

well you know any guy jump boarda  ship and sail off , start witha  canoe and you can take out the carrier  and fleet air wing the next weekend.

i think alot of people jump out of their lanes but somes times the message is more of a question without any question mark at the end of the sentence.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

I think the current generations of tankers would more than happy to deal with challenge of learning new kit and will do it as fast or faster as this possible purchase. The Leo C2 is a decent piece of kit, but you can’t run a tank for forever. This purchase is only 16 years overdue.

 

[Dale Denton]

Can anyone clearly define the differences between our Leopard C2, the A6M and the A4? The A4 (from what I've read about it on CASR and previous posts) sounds very much like our C2's in Afghanistan.

 

[Franko]

We are not going to do you homework for you.     

Regards

 

[Cdn Blackshirt]

Can anyone clearly define the differences between our Leopard C2, the A6M and the A4? The A4 (from what I've read about it on CASR and previous posts) sounds very much like our C2's in Afghanistan.

Well, other than the weight class, main gun, electronics, optics and armour....and air conditioning....yeah, they're almost exactly same.


Matthew.  ;D

 

[rmacqueen]

Well, other than the weight class, main gun, electronics, optics and armour....and air conditioning....yeah, they're almost exactly same.

You left out that pesky language problem but we could always train our guys to read German

 

[Sig_Des]

You left out that pesky language problem but we could always train our guys to read German

Remember that we'll have to label everything in English and in French  ;D