Extreme heat in army tanks endangers troops; forces use tank blanket to keep troops from baking

[GAP]

Extreme heat in army tanks endangers troops
TORONTO
Article Link

Canadian Press — The Canadian government is urgently seeking a cooling system for Leopard tanks stationed in Afghanistan to protect troops from the sweltering heat, CBC's The National reported Monday.

Summer temperatures can reach 50 C, and inside the tanks, which have no air conditioning, they can reach 65 C.

Government documents warn that the summer heat could not only cook the tanks and the soldiers, but also cause electronic and hydraulic failure.

“Without a cooling system, it will endanger the crew,” said Maj. Trevor Cadieu. “And I'm confident the leadership right now are looking at a solution to that. I think they've identified that as one of the critical requirements.”
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[old medic]

Extreme heat in army tanks puts endangers troops

Gooder Engrish  ???

 

[GAP]

Good catch, I never noticed that....mine was a cut and paste, so I will fix it up for the CBC. 

 

[George Wallace]

Someone already caught it:

Rain SCM from Canada writes: Maybe I'm going to read a publication that ensures headlines are grammatically correct. Thanks for promoting illiteracy on the web G&M.
Posted 30/01/07 at 12:49 AM EST | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment

 

[Trooper Hale]

I've said it before kids, footy shorts (like soccer shorts but shorter) are the only thing to wear while your closed down! Oh and seeing as this is an armoured vehicles thing why havent the "endangered crew" got an esky of cold drinks on hand? I say they've got no one but themselves to blame.

Seriously though, closed down in the drivers hole i've been so hot i've thought i'd die, having a camel back and my shirt undone has saved my arse more then once. Its not unusual for temps to get to the high 50's and 60's down here in the vehicles. Its not fun but you've got to tolerate it and make yourself comfortable. Have water near by, undo the shirt and unblouse the pants. Hell, you could even roll your pants up a bit if your really keen.
Its pretty obvious that things get hot in Afghanistan, thus being in a big 60ton hulk of metal would make those inside more then a little bit sweaty.

Story is a bit of a non issue i reckon.
Same paper should print "Bullets endanger people fired at".

 

[GAP]

I think what surprised most people was that this had not been thought of prior to shipping the Leo's over. They knew about the tempature ranges and had dealt with the extremes in other vehicles, but forgot this one?

What about the engines overheating at 50 C?

 

[Meridian]

I watched this on the National last night, and this article is a bit more sensational than the actual interview with the Major was.  He was a bit more emphatic that the troops were really appreciating having the LEO there than the article lets on (what a surprise!)

He (the Major being interviewed next to the veh) made it pretty clear though that it would be "too dangerous" to have the guys down in the holes in mid-summer Afghanistan... so where is the breaking point?  Some of it must be suck it up - I'm sure its no picnic for the infantry guys up in the mountains either,  but is there a temperature where it is realistic to assume major mistakes will be made/physical injury will occur? (honest question)

 

[George Wallace]

This story was covered quite well on CBC news late last night.  Tenders are out for a solution, and it is to be a hurried project with submissions due before the end of Feb.  

Engine problems shouldn't be too much of a problem, as long as they keep their Air Filters cleaned (probably three or four times daily).  

There were projects in the past for an airconditioned/cooled crewsuit for tankers as well as changes to the NBC system to provide forced air to the crew for cooling.  The problem is that the crews are wearing body armour, which I don't think was a factor in past proposals or musings in the Corps.  It was rather interesting to see the Driver squeezing into his hole, wearing body armour and contorting to get between the add-on armour and the hatch cover.

The news report went on to be sidetracked by the move to cover "Track Pads".  The Afghan terrain is ripping the Rubber off of Track Pads at a phenomenal rate.  :  Duh!  I am wondering why that would even be a major concern, if they are not on well paved roads. 

 

[GAP]

The rubber pads, I assume, were designed and installed to accomodate the Canadian roads to reduce damage. Why are they using them over there? Does it make any sense?

 

[karl28]

               It must horrible for our tank crews if there is no airconditioning  in the Leo or is it all tanks I don't know any thing about armour .     I know there is a certain amount of suck it up attitude in the military but heat exhaustion can be deadly if not looked after right .     What I don't understand is that  you  would think this should of been looked at before they sent them over . The Gov knows how hot it is over there and they had lots of time to learn from other armies experience we have been there our selves sense 2002 correct me if I am wrong because I am no expert on this at all  .  Its great there addressing this now but I personally feel this should of been one the first things they considered before sending crews over just my two cents worth

 

[GO!!!]

Temps in Kandahar can reach 60C in the shade - no veh required.

Strangely enough, dismounted/light infantry have been climbing up and down mountains with rucksacks, helmets and body armour since 2002 in this same heat, with great success so I'd hardly class this as a "critical requirement", considering that armour crews can carry an unlimited amount of water and are seated most of the time.

Additionally, not all US armoured vehicles are air conditioned, and daytime temps in Iraq can be similar to Afghanistan, so I don't really see what the big deal is. I've patrolled in midday around Kandahar in an up-armoured humvee with no a/c and the windows up. It's not pleasant, but it is do-able with plenty of water.

I don't think that this is the show stopping issue that the tankers over there are presenting it as.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

The problem was identified and was talked about before they went over. I was on course with some guys from out west before the Leos deployed. They already had people in to look at the problem and some ideas had already been put forward. R&D takes time. Even in dire circumstances. It's going to have to be right the first time, no putting it in and out, modifying mounts and outputs. You can't take and keep the tanks off line while you try sort out manufacturing problems There's no COTS solution to this.

 

[FredDaHead]

I'm stepping way outside my lanes, but there's something I don't quite "get" in this.

Why are the crew wearing body armour? Isn't it safe enough to be buttoned up inside a tank? Or do they just spend most of their time with the hatches open like we tend to see on TV?

 

[armyvern]

Well outside my lanes too, but I'm wagering that if they (God forbid) hit an IED etc, and need to exit quick,  they'd not want to be coming out without the body armour on.

 

[Jarnhamar]

Plus wearing body armor feels like a big hug...


I can sympathize with the tankers.

Just driving around in the G wagon with  broken AC was a killer, same with the RG31. Surrounded by glasss like that it's like being in a big aquarium out in the sun.

 

[Inch]

Here's a crazy idea, lets use something that's already been used before. When the ships are in the Gulf with a Sea King embarked and temperatures start climbing, the crews started wearing cooling vests or shirts. It's a shirt you put on with little plastic tubes running all over it like a radiator, it's plugged into a cooler with ice water and a pump that pumps the ice water through the tubing. It's been used by Sea King crews for years in hot climates and due to the popularity of it, even NASCAR is starting to use them too.

http://www4.army.mil/news/article.php?story=8363

Guess the Americans aren't just sucking it up, they're trialling cooling vests too.

 

[GINge!]

I thought ADATS crews had been using micro-climate vests for years? Though IIRC they were filled with a glycol coolent?

 

[Big Red]

Would something like the cooling system that racecar drivers have in their fireproof suits be feasable?

 

[1feral1]

From my experience in AFVs here in Iraq when it was hot (and it was, and will be soon again), Inside our AFVs it was hot beyond a joke. On a 50C day in the sun, it was upwards of 70C or more.

So on top of that heat, there is your uniform, your CVC helmet, your flash hood, your nomex gloves and your body armour. One is literally swimming in his own sweat, and it pumps out of you like there is no tomorrow. It was a shocker, let me tell you. Top all that off with the dust, and worse if you are exposed, you have the wind which acts like a blow furnace.

The secret I believe before a mission is to every hour or so (at 4 hrs before going out), force at least a litre into you regardless if you want it or not, then have more water on standby inside your AFV (about 20L in 1L bottles for all), plus your camelbak filled too, and suck on that baby as much as you can when you are moving.

The dry hot weather really sucks the life out of you, and if you are not careful, you'll find yourself a casualty and a liability to your crew.

EDIT: About cooling vests and the like, we thought of that too, but operationally they do not work. Why? Because their contents are toxic, and should one take shrapnel or a bullet, this material can be forced into you at velocity, with the chemicals being toxic, killing you quickly.

Fine in peacetime training, but in war, its a no go. However proir to a mission, crews can wear the vests to keep cool before hand, the take them off before going outside the wire.

As for vehicles shyting themselves, the key is maintenance maintenance maintenance, and following the TMs for hot weather ops, plus any lesson learned from the lads, ensuring this info is passed on to the next roto. We've never really had too much of a problem with breakdowns, so we've been lucky there.

Regards from a warm winter's day here in Baghdad (17C and sunny),


Wes

 

[tank recce]

About cooling vests and the like, we thought of that too, but operationally they do not work. Why? Because their contents are toxic, and should one take shrapnel or a bullet, this material can be forced into you at velocity, with the chemicals being toxic, killing you quickly.

(Sound of Mech.Eng. scratching head) Speaking as a GP motorcycle racer who uses nothing but distilled water in his engine (and a cap of Water Wetter  ), since we're not talking engine-level heat transfer rates, I daresay potable water would work just spiffy as the transfer fluid. First pass SWAG, no calcs or research, YMMV, warranty void if operated in war zone. The vest systems would likely need to be cleaned on a regular basis to prevent mineral deposits & mung (flush out with bleach & descaler, rinse until clear. What - an hour a week per c/s?), but I can't see that being a big obstacle. In the event of a leak, top up with ditch water; the system would just need more frequent cleaning.

Distilled water would really stretch out your cleaning cycle, but that's probably not readily available in the FOBs.

(Edit for Tpyo)