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Eric, Prince Of Blackwater

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GAP

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Eric Prince Of Blackwater Could Not Stop His Speech From Being Recorded.
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Speaking at the University of Michigan, Eric Prince of Blackwater fame made provocative comments about The Geneva Convention and NATO troops. Typically he doesn’t allow his speeches to be recorded. But The Nation magazine received this recording and it is a whopper.

He expressed disdain for the Geneva Convention and described Blackwater’s secretive operations at four Forward Operating Bases he controls in Afghanistan. He called those fighting the US in Afghanistan, Iraq and Pakistan “barbarians” who “crawled out of the sewer.” ….

Prince revealed Blackwater’s involvement in Pakistan

Prince spoke of Blackwater working in Pakistan, which appears to contradict the official, public Blackwater and US government line that Blackwater is not in Pakistan.

Prince also was unimpressed with the Afghans.

Several times during the speech, Prince appeared to demean Afghans his company is training in Afghanistan, saying Blackwater had to teach them “Intro to Toilet Use” and to do jumping jacks.

Prince Blames Iran For Mideast Turmoil

Prince painted a global picture in which Iran is “at the absolute dead center… of badness.” The Iranians, he said, “want that nuke so that it is again a Persian Gulf and they very much have an attitude of when Darius ran most of the Middle East back in 1000 BC. That’s very much what the Iranians are after.” [NOTE: Darius of Persia actually ruled from 522 BC–486 BC]. Iran, Prince charged, has a “master plan to stir up and organize a Shia revolt through the whole region.”

Prince is contemptuous of the Geneva Convention

Prince scornfully dismissed the debate on whether armed individuals working for Blackwater could be classified as “unlawful combatants” who are ineligible for protection under the Geneva Convention. “You know, people ask me that all the time, ‘Aren’t you concerned that you folks aren’t covered under the Geneva Convention in [operating] in the likes of Iraq or Afghanistan or Pakistan? And I say, ‘Absolutely not,’ because these people, they crawled out of the sewer and they have a 1200 AD mentality. They’re barbarians. They don’t know where Geneva is, let alone that there was a convention there.”

Prince disses the US Secret Service

“A little known fact, you know when the shoe bomber in Iraq was throwing his shoes at President Bush, in December 08, we provided diplomatic security, but we had no responsibility for the president’s security—that’s always the Secret Service that does that. We happened to have a guy in the back of the room and he saw that first shoe go and he drew his weapon, got a sight picture, saw that it was only a shoe, he re-holstered, went  forward and took that guy down while the Secret Service was still standing there flat-footed.

Prince disses NATO but praises Canada. Turns out he just signed a big contract with Canada.

Prince spoke disparagingly of some unnamed NATO countries with troops in Afghanistan, saying they do not have the will for the fight. “Some of them do and a lot of them don’t,” he said. “It is such a patchwork of different international commitments as to what some can do and what some can’t. A lot of them should just pack it in and go home.” Canada, however, received praise from Prince. “The Canadians have lost per capita more than America has in Afghanistan. They are fighting and they are doing it and so if you see a Canadian thank them for that. The politicians at home take heavies for doing that,” Prince said. He did not mention the fact that his company was hired by the Canadian government to train its forces.

Prince reveals company’s involvement in Pakistan

Erik Prince spoke at length about Blackwater’s deployment in 2005 in New Orleans during Hurricane Katrina, bragging that his forces “rescued 128 people, sent thousands of meals in there and it worked.” Prince boasted of his company’s rapid response, saying, “We surged 145 guys in 36 hours from our facility five states away and we beat the Louisiana National Guard to the scene.” What Prince failed to mention was that at the time of the disaster, at least 35% of the Louisiana National Guard was deployed in Iraq. One National Guard soldier in New Orleans at the time spoke to Reuters, saying, “They (the Bush administration) care more about Iraq and Afghanistan than here… We are doing the best we can with the resources we have, but almost all of our guys are in Iraq.” Much of the National Guard’s equipment was in Iraq at the time, including high water vehicles, Humvees, refuelers and generators.

Prince also said that he had a plan to create a massive humanitarian vessel that, with the generous support of major corporations, could have responded to natural disasters, such as earthquakes and tsunamis across the globe.

Prince complained that he was outed as a CIA operative.

Prince also addressed what he described as his outing as a CIA asset working on sensitive US government programs. He has previously blamed Congressional Democrats and the news media for naming him as working on the US assassination program. The US intelligence apparatus “depends heavily on Americans that are not employed by the government to facilitate greater success and access for the intelligence community,” Prince said. “It’s unprecedented to have people outed by name, especially ones that were running highly classified programs. And as much as the left got animated about Valerie Plame, outing people by name for other very very sensitive programs was unprecedented and definitely threw me under the bus.”
end

OK. I did it  ;)

 
Seems like an interesting mix of uncomfortable truth and ego run wild.  Interesting about the Katrina involvement though.  I'd not heard of Blackwater doing dom ops in that fashion. 
 
GIS for Blackwater:

633488227771041986-Contractors.jpg
 
GAP said:
Prince scornfully dismissed the debate on whether armed individuals working for Blackwater could be classified as “unlawful combatants” who are ineligible for protection under the Geneva Convention. “You know, people ask me that all the time, ‘Aren’t you concerned that you folks aren’t covered under the Geneva Convention in [operating] in the likes of Iraq or Afghanistan or Pakistan? And I say, ‘Absolutely not,’ because these people, they crawled out of the sewer and they have a 1200 AD mentality. They’re barbarians. They don’t know where Geneva is, let alone that there was a convention there.”

That is actually a good point.
 
You think that insulting a bunch of people is a good point?
 
dangerboy said:
You think that insulting a bunch of people is a good point?

I get the feeling from his statement there, that he was referring directly to insurgents/Taliban etc, not any "nationality" (my context of it coming from the last line) --- of course, we'll never know because the author of the article chose only to quote the "good bits" vice the entire conversation in context. Funny that. Our very own former CDS called them "murdering scumbags" and we all cheered when he did so - but then, we had the benefit of "context" instead of a couple of snippets from a media type with an agenda/spin of their own to push out there - whatever agenda that may be.

And, I too believe that he has a very good point with his last line --- which makes the "context" obviously clear for me in my mind:

"They don't know where Geneva is, let alone that there was a convention there.” IE: Whether or not Blackwater et al are covered by Geneva Conventions is absolutely 500% MOOT ... when the "murdering scumbags" who might catch them don't adhere to them anyway. He isn't being "Contemptuous of the Geneva Conventions" as the author of the artcile claims ... he's being contemptuos of the "enemy" that ignores those conventions anyway - even when they are applicable.

Yep, excellent point I say.  Remember all those Brit soldiers who actually WERE covered by the Geneva Conventions who were found dead, gutted and worse in the sandbox? Apparently, whoever did that to them, didn't have a clue where Geneva is, or that conventions had been signed there that applied to those troops.
 
That photo (while tongue in cheek) points to a larger problem about the Blackwater (X whatever) image which is that everyone views the entire company based on the one branch of their company that deals with the "mercenary" type overseas ops.

The problem with that is that it's kind of like seeing Ford as only the Mustang, or the whole CF as the Airborne, or whatever other analogy you want to use.

Blackwater has provided decades of incredibly useful training, be it the Police-type shooting / defensive driving lessons or the Mirror Image course which is the only thing like it short of attending a real madrassa. 

The guys who run the Terrorism Research Center (a branch of Blackwater) were some of the most professional instructors I have ever learned from; in fact, some of the classes given by Walter Purdy were downright riveting.  These guys may have shared the same base as the stereotype-guys in the poster above, but could not have been further removed from them in their behaviour or mindset.
 
bdave said:
That is actually a good point.

That's just wrong. Has it ever crossed your mind that this is EXACTLY how Nazis viewed Jews? We all know the result. If dehumanization of the enemy has gone to your brain that much maybe you should report to MIR. We are professional soldiers, therefore we abide by rules... if you don't like those then just go and find work with Blackwater, perhaps.
 
ArmyVern said:
I get the feeling from his statement there, that he was referring directly to insurgents/Taliban etc, not any "nationality" (my context of it coming from the last line) --- of course, we'll never know because the author of the article chose only to quote the "good bits" vice the entire conversation in context. Funny that. Our very own former CDS called them "murdering scumbags" and we all cheered when he did so - but then, we had the benefit of "context" instead of a couple of snippets from a media type with an agenda/spin of their own to push out there - whatever agenda that may be.

And, I too believe that he has a very good point with his last line --- which makes the "context" obviously clear for me in my mind:

"They don't know where Geneva is, let alone that there was a convention there.” IE: Whether or not Blackwater et al are covered by Geneva Conventions is absolutely 500% MOOT ... when the "murdering scumbags" who might catch them don't adhere to them anyway. He isn't being "Contemptuous of the Geneva Conventions" as the author of the artcile claims ... he's being contemptuos of the "enemy" that ignores those conventions anyway - even when they are applicable.

Yep, excellent point I say.  Remember all those Brit soldiers who actually WERE covered by the Geneva Conventions who were found dead, gutted and worse in the sandbox? Apparently, whoever did that to them, didn't have a clue where Geneva is, or that conventions had been signed there that applied to those troops.

There is an excellent article on this by Professor Imbault from RMC in the last Canadian Military Journal. Here is a liberal summary of its arguments: We cannot on the one hand pretend to be there in the service of democracy, to enact human rights, to protect minorities and women, in summary defending and promoting LIBERAL values which we believe to be superior to their backward values, then one moment later not abide by our own rules (we signed Geneva, eh!) because they do not. It is either we promote all of our values or none... or we get out. Promoting human rights and the rule of law then killing ex-judicio indiscriminately will only breed comptent and hatred and send more flak our way. You may not like it, but that's how it has always been and always is. Example? The French swept aside a few rules in Algeria, and ended up spending 40 yrs dealing with FLN and terrorism on their home soil.
 
TimBit:  Two minute penalty for using logic on the internet.

 
Wow, irrelevant dissention run amok! 

Where did Mr. Prince say that his people or any NATO force should ignore the Conventions?  He stated that the people we currently fight don't give a crap about them.  That is not in dispute.  He also indicated that his people are aware that their enemy will not be giving them such consideration.  That is just being realistic about what they can expect if captured.  I do not see anywhere his indication that friendly forces should act less than professional and in keeping with the standards of conduct we currently practice. 
 
Well previous Blackwater behaviour in Iraq would tend to support the charge that they do not exactly obey rules of war. They are lso being investigated for weapons smuggling.

But I guess it is possible he was only remarking that they (Taliban) did not follow rules because they are unaware of them or would not care, not that we ought to do the same.

That being said, labelling your enemies as barbarians coming out of the sewer is pushing it.
 
Timbit: Last night I was reading a WWII-era screed by a U.S. admiral published in one of the Navy publications of the day about the barbarity of U-boats and German destroyers sinking American naval ships and merchantmen, painting a vivid picture of ships sinking in the night surrounded by puddles of burning fuel and how he hoped every American would remember it when peace inevitably came and German shipping sought safe US harbour.

I thought then, as I did when I read your last point, 'Ah - one of those things that's only wrong when the other guy does it.'  ;)
 
Talk about barbarians.  In the early days of WW2, German U Boats would surface before their prey, have the crew abandon ship (eg: onto their boat) and then sink the ship by shooting the deck mounted 88mm at the waterline.  Soon, this became suicidal (for obvious reasons).  Still, U Boats regularly picked up the survivors.  Consider the "Laconia Incident"

Flying the Red Cross flag, U-506 (Erich Wurdeman) and U-507 (Harro Schacht) arrived two days later, just around noon of September 15. They were later joined by an Italian submarine Cappelini. These four submarines shepherded the survivors, with lifeboats in tow and hundreds standing on the decks of the U-boat, they made towards the African coastline for a rendezvous with Vichy French warships dispatched as part of the rescue.

The next morning, September 16, at 11.25am, this concentration of U-boats was spotted by an American B-24 Liberator bomber operating out of Ascension island. The survivors waved and the U-boats signaled for help. As Red Cross flags were draped over their decks, the pilot Lieutenant James D. Harden turned away and radioed back to base for instructions. The officer on duty that day Captain Robert C. Richardson III replied with the order to attack.

----------------------

As a result of this incident, Admiral Donitz issued an order forbidding U-boats from attempting any rescues and furthermore, from providing any assistance whatsoever to survivors of submarine attacks. He was quoted to say “no attempt of any kind must be made to rescue the crews of ships sunk”. This order became to be known as the “Laconia Order”. Up until now, it was common for U-boats to aid survivors of their attack by providing provisions and pointing out the direction closest to land. Despite the order, some U-boat commanders continued in their practice to aid survivors of their attacks.
 
Everytime I read this thread title, I want to edit it and put a comma after Eric. Like something from Monty Python or Blackadder
 
TimBit said:
That being said, labelling your enemies as barbarians coming out of the sewer is pushing it.

I'll take it that you were very insulted then when our former CDS simply "told it like it is" and weren't one of the great many of us cheering him with a "finally, someone telling it like it is to all our fellow Canadians on the left wing porting their blinders every day."
 
ArmyVern said:
I'll take it that you were very insulted then when our former CSS simply "told it like it is" and weren't one of the great many of us cheering him with a "finally, someone telling it like it is to all our fellow Canadians on the left wing porting their blinders every day."

Vern:  While I`d love to see a CSS CDS, I think you meant CDS, not CSS.

 
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