Divining the right role, capabilities, structure, and Regimental System for Canada's Army Reserves

[George Wallace]

The CF is, on the whole, a lousy employer of reservists.
You may be due for a career course, there may be an available position on same said course, but your class B employer won't let you go... So you want the full time job, or the course and career advancement?

Problem lies in the mentality of the people who load the courses.  It is a Reg Force mentality where they figure you can tell a member that they are on course next week and send them.  Sorry, but some Reservists need up to a year to plan for attending a crse, arranging times with their employers (Reservists who are police are often in this boat).  Reservists need lots of lead time to plan on attending crses. 

 

[Kirkhill]

How well do the Course Lengths match with the time off available to reservists?

Perhaps the courses could be structured in packets that reservists could attend without requiring long sabbaticals? 

 

[Haggis]

How well do the Course Lengths match with the time off available to reservists?

Generally speaking, they don't.  Couse length is determined by the content required to be delivered and the depth/detail required for it to be applied.  (i.e.  a general introduction to a subject may take 45 minutes while a detailed immersion could take a couple of days).

Having sat on many QS/TP writing boards, I can tell you that there is always angst filled discussions about this with a view to shortening courses as much as possible (to reduce PERSTEMPO demands and TD costs) while ensuring the course properly prepares the member for entry-level employment in the trade/specialty being taught. In the final analysis, when critical content and course length are compared, content almost always wins out.

Perhaps the courses could be structured in packets that reservists could attend without requiring long sabbaticals?

There are ways to reduce residency course length which are being constantly explored by the Training Establishments. This is but one.

 

[geo]

Problem lies in the mentality of the people who load the courses.  It is a Reg Force mentality where they figure you can tell a member that they are on course next week and send them.  Sorry, but some Reservists need up to a year to plan for attending a crse, arranging times with their employers (Reservists who are police are often in this boat).  Reservists need lots of lead time to plan on attending crses.

Another problem has to do with last minute course cancellation. A reservist has gone and allocated his vacation time & more for his career course, his employer has juggled shift changes to let you go.... And the Friday afternoon before you're supposed to leave.... They cancel the course. The boss is gonna love it, the next time you come up with a request for time off.

 

[Haggis]

Problem lies in the mentality of the people who load the courses.  It is a Reg Force mentality where they figure you can tell a member that they are on course next week and send them.  Sorry, but some Reservists need up to a year to plan for attending a crse, arranging times with their employers (Reservists who are police are often in this boat).  Reservists need lots of lead time to plan on attending crses.

I fought this battle, mostly successfully, with CDA for NCMPD courses.  What I wasn't able to influence was how the services (RCN/CA/RCAF) chains of command then got the loading info to the Armoury floor/drill deck/hangar and the n to the member.  For example, CDA would release the loading message for, say ILP, 90 - 120 days in advance and Divs/Bdes/units were still not getting the info to the nominee in time for him/her to react and arrange for attendance.

 

[George Wallace]

Another problem has to do with last minute course cancellation. A reservist has gone and allocated his vacation time & more for his career course, his employer has juggled shift changes to let you go.... And the Friday afternoon before you're supposed to leave.... They cancel the course. The boss is gonna love it, the next time you come up with a request for time off.

Or just the shifting of the course by one day.  Had a Police officer arrange for time to attend a six to eight week course, and then someone shifted the course dates to the right one day.  He had Court appointments and now was unable to attend the course.  These types of problems rarely occur when working with Reg Force pers, but are the norm for Reservists.

 

[jhk87]

The marines also show up to almost every recruiting event in full dress, colour guards at sporting events, their silent drill team, bands etc.  heck they had a marine fight a dragon with a sword in one video.  They are successful because they know the value of those things as recruiting tools.  The NAtional Sentry Program has done more for recruiting and connecting with Canadians than any door kicking video can (not everyone wants to join the infantry).

All tasks easily handled by the RegF. If this is the primary function of 3 "bde gps" per div, we're not getting a high cost effectiveness.

 

[jhk87]

Hmmm ... I wonder ... if the challenge is "chew on this", then is the password "Bite me"?

Why destroy esprit de corps?
Why destroy regimental pride?

Why destroy any organisation that has survived the disgraceful cuts in defence spending foisted upon Canada by an irresponsible political party that makes Quisling look like a patriot?

Okay - chew on this:
The Militia mobilised, fought, and won the Second World War.  If, as you propose, we destroy the Militia - who is left?  The Regular Force?

Dileas Gu Brath,
MB

Nope. An army initially mobilised from the Miltia won the war after years of training, massive expansion, and operating on a full-time paid basis. Duringthe First World War, we managed to win without engaging the Militia at all.

 

[Kirkhill]

Nice that you came out of hibernation for the election JHK.

You might want to check the dates on the items you cite.  Your latest is 12 years dead.

Jus' sayin'.

 

[FJAG]

If a reservist is called up why couldnt their employer continue to pay them for the length of their deployment ?Then whatever their pay was would be a tax write off for the business.This might require legislation.

Any salary paid by an employer is tax deductible in any event but why would an employer pay a soldier a salary (or even just a top-up of the difference between the soldier's military pay and his civilian salary) when he receives no benefit in exchange? Many people's patriotism stops at their pocketbook although some employers generously do provide that (generally lower paying ones). What we need is something in the nature of an additional tax credit over and above the deduction.

In addition there are insurance, pension, seniority etc issues. The problems aren't insurmountable; what's missing is political will. Hell, if we can't get benefits right for our wounded reserve vets, how can we expect any further action on this front (especially when it's a very low priority issue for our regular force masters) - Colour me pessimistic :brickwall:

:cheers:

 

[Edward Campbell]

Any salary paid by an employer is tax deductible in any event but why would an employer pay a soldier a salary (or even just a top-up of the difference between the soldier's military pay and his civilian salary) when he receives no benefit in exchange? Many people's patriotism stops at their pocketbook although some employers generously do provide that (generally lower paying ones). What we need is something in the nature of an additional tax credit over and above the deduction.

In addition there are insurance, pension, seniority etc issues. The problems aren't insurmountable; what's missing is political will. Hell, if we can't get benefits right for our wounded reserve vets, how can we expect any further action on this front (especially when it's a very low priority issue for our regular force masters) - Colour me pessimistic :brickwall:

:cheers:

I mentioned elsewhere that we cannot get things done until we have a sensible defence policy and I said that my sense is that anything like a sensible defence policy, and the political-bureaucratic discussions that must surround it, are "unwelcome" in official Ottawa because of the expense ~ we Canadians are downright Elizabethan in our views on the the military. This government, and both of its potential replacements, have other priorities and they may see other, more serious, non-military threats on the immediate horizon.

But, there are two ways to make policy:

    1. Mostly we prefer the "top down," well structured white paper route. The cabinet blesses a policy, implicitly agreeing to funding, for a particular ministry or function, like National Defence. This is "comfortable" for politicians, the public,
        bureaucrats and soldiers, alike;

    2. From the "bottom up," people like the CDS propose projects to the cabinet and secure Treasury Board (the policy centre's) support. Ideally, hopefully, these projects are al tied together in an (invisible to most people) "master plan."

I do not believe either policy making option is in use in Ottawa, today, because, I repeat, defence policy, even individual, (relatively) low cost initiatives like reserve force restructuring, are "unwelcome" in the political centre.

 

[George Wallace]

.......... Duringthe First World War, we managed to win without engaging the Militia at all.

What history books have you been studying?

 

[tomahawk6]

Some courses could be done via computer,like distance learning is done at the university.

 

[dapaterson]

Some courses could be done via computer,like distance learning is done at the university.

There's a growing library of online training available to CAF members, and several career courses are delivered via DL, or a blended approach with both DL and some residential.  That said, for most initial training, there's not only skills and knowledge acquisition, but military inculcation is also a key element, something that's hard to do with "Click here to continue".

The Defence Learning Network is available at: http://www.forces.gc.ca/en/training-elearning/dln.page

 

[Kirkhill]

There's a growing library of online training available to CAF members, and several career courses are delivered via DL, or a blended approach with both DL and some residential.  That said, for most initial training, there's not only skills and knowledge acquisition, but military inculcation is also a key element, something that's hard to do with "Click here to continue".

The Defence Learning Network is available at: http://www.forces.gc.ca/en/training-elearning/dln.page

A question might be how long does that take.  Internationally that indoctrination period seems to be about 3 months with "trades training" starting immediately after.

It seems to me that some trades are going to be more amenable to Distance Learning while others less so.  But all trades have some "book work" involved that could be covered on line and then tested at the armouries or in garrison.  That would free up instruction time for practical work (hands on with the C6), ranges and field exercises.

 

[Haggis]

When I was in NCMPD, the CDA had just rolled out the "CF Campus" concept, which was very heavy on DL and on-line learning (hence the CAF's DLN and RCAF's AFILE).  Some other federal agencies have gone to partial DL for "pre-recruit" training (e.g. the CBSA requires 50 hours of self-paced, instructor supported on-line training over a four week period) but there is still a need - and likely always will be - for residency training in the military schoolhouse for basic, trades and leadership training.

 

[daftandbarmy]

Any salary paid by an employer is tax deductible in any event but why would an employer pay a soldier a salary (or even just a top-up of the difference between the soldier's military pay and his civilian salary) when he receives no benefit in exchange? Many people's patriotism stops at their pocketbook although some employers generously do provide that (generally lower paying ones). What we need is something in the nature of an additional tax credit over and above the deduction.

In addition there are insurance, pension, seniority etc issues. The problems aren't insurmountable; what's missing is political will. Hell, if we can't get benefits right for our wounded reserve vets, how can we expect any further action on this front (especially when it's a very low priority issue for our regular force masters) - Colour me pessimistic :brickwall:

:cheers:

I know several employers who will not hire reservists precisely because they expect far more time off than other staff.

It speaks to the need to front end load as much training into our troops as possible while they are still in school and can take time off in the summers.

 

[Kirkhill]

Summer 1 (Graduating High School) - 12 weeks BMQ + 12 weekends at the armoury
Summer 2 (1st Year) - 12 weeks Trades (DP?) + 12 weekends at the armoury
Summer 3 (2nd Year) - Exercises + 12 weekends at the armoury
Year 4 - 12 weekends at the armoury
Years 5 to 8 minimum service Supplist OR can volunteer for continuing Class A service

Supplist Reserves and Class A Reserves available for call up with current skills.

 

[C-Aitchison]

What history books have you been studying?

It's actually technically kind of true. The Militia was never formally mobilized during WWI, and instead they created the Canadian Expeditionary Force. Many members of the Militia transferred into the CEF, but from my understanding from a few of my military History classes here at school, Canada never fully mobilized their Militia Forces.

I could be completely wrong though.

 

[Kirkhill]

Lutheran - you aren't wrong.

But that is a bit of a difference than saying the Militia wasn't engaged at all.  Many soldiers in the CEF were Militiamen (who had to be trained at Valcartier, Salisbury Plains and Etaples prior to going to the trenches) and many others were recruited through the Militia.