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Deck Operations: merging Boatswain, Steward and the visual signalling part of Naval Communication (f

SeaKingTacco

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How in the frig are bosun, navcom and steward even remotely compatible trades?
 

PuckChaser

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Occupational restructure is what keeps staff officers employed in Ottawa. It's like they throw a dart at a wall to pick trades to amalgamate next.
 
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jollyjacktar

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SeaKingTacco said:
How in the frig are bosun, navcom and steward even remotely compatible trades?

I had a C1 give me the lowdown on it a few weeks ago.  I think that the decision process involves the legalization of weed and such.  To be fair there was a tie in but I'm sorry I cannot recall exactly how the Rube Goldberg machine fit it all together now.
 

SeaKingTacco

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jollyjacktar said:
I had a C1 give me the lowdown on it a few weeks ago.  I think that the decision process involves the legalization of weed and such.  To be fair there was a tie in but I'm sorry I cannot recall exactly how the Rube Goldberg machine fit it all together now.

The tie in is that they serve on ships, but don't fix things that break?

That is about the only thing in common that leaps to my mind...
 

Monsoon

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SeaKingTacco said:
The tie in is that they serve on ships, but don't fix things that break?

That is about the only thing in common that leaps to my mind...
From what I understand of it, the bulk of NAVCOM (the stuff related to IS admin, info mgmt, etc) is going into the new IT tech/operator trade. The bit that's being taken on by the amalgamated "bosun mate" (my term - don't know what they're calling it) trade is the flag hoist/flashing flight/radio voice procedure stuff: all the NCM bridge/upper deck work in one trade, effectively (accepting some skill fade past initial training in those skillsets). The pieces taken from Steward will be the advanced combat first aider and mess husbandry bits; I suspect the Naval NPF admin bit will somehow be passed over to the ship's clerks (though as a purple trade they won't have any specific training in it, so that could prove interesting).

There's nothing like a proposed change to get sailors suddenly satisfied with the status quo...
 

Halifax Tar

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jollyjacktar said:
Again, I cannot speak for the Weird Room and all it's denizens, but, the trade amalgamations the new CRCN has in play and in mind is not going to go down well for retention.  There are many punching out and planning to punch out from the MSE great smash of 2016.  I can just imagine the next great thing the Bosn/Nav Comm/Stwd Frankenstein's monster that is presently on the threat radar will be just as successful.  I am starting to wonder if it the RCN motto is going to be changed from "Ready, Aye, Ready" to "We're not happy until you're unhappy"...

You cant be serious... So deck apes, signalers and waiters all smashed together... This makes sense.  I smell empire protection...
 
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jollyjacktar

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Monsoon said:
From what I understand of it, the bulk of NAVCOM (the stuff related to IS admin, info mgmt, etc) is going into the new IT tech/operator trade. The bit that's being taken on by the amalgamated "bosun mate" (my term - don't know what they're calling it) trade is the flag hoist/flashing flight/radio voice procedure stuff: all the NCM bridge/upper deck work in one trade, effectively (accepting some skill fade past initial training in those skillsets). The pieces taken from Steward will be the advanced combat first aider and mess husbandry bits; I suspect the Naval NPF admin bit will somehow be passed over to the ship's clerks (though as a purple trade they won't have any specific training in it, so that could prove interesting).

There's nothing like a proposed change to get sailors suddenly satisfied with the status quo...

Yes, that rings some bells in my foggy memory of what the proposed reasoning was as described.  ( :mad: I still think it's MJ research gone badly with what they're doing to everyone, as there has to be some heavy smoking involved in the decision process.  Especially as the RN is reversing what they did to the MSE and we're going full speed towards the rocks)
 

Lumber

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I'd be happy to do away with the stewards, get my meal from a steam line like everyone else, and not have my breakfast f***ed up one more time...

"I said fried eggs, god damnit! Not scrambled!"  :threat:

;D

In all seriousness though (was I not being serious? ::)), the way they have reduced the watch on deck, you could do away with a few traditional Nav Comm and Bosn billets on board. Add to that getting rid of the Stewards (make the jr. officers clean the ward room), and  that would free up some space for this Frankenstein of a trade, especially aboard X ship.



 

Pusser

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Lumber said:
I'd be happy to do away with the stewards, get my meal from a steam line like everyone else, and not have my breakfast f***ed up one more time...

"I said fried eggs, god damnit! Not scrambled!"  :threat:

;D

In all seriousness though (was I not being serious? ::)), the way they have reduced the watch on deck, you could do away with a few traditional Nav Comm and Bosn billets on board. Add to that getting rid of the Stewards (make the jr. officers clean the ward room), and  that would free up some space for this Frankenstein of a trade, especially aboard X ship.

I always find it interesting that people who enjoyed the benefits of a system in the past are so quick to change it after it no longer affects them.

The sad and dangerous part of all of this is that there is an awful lot of folks who don't know or understand what stewards actually do.  Yes, they provide service in the Wardroom, but they also manage the entire NPF organization on board the ship and are the on board hospitality experts.  These things are pretty important.  Like it or not, part of the RCN's mission is to show the flag around the world.  This involves diplomatic protocol and it needs to be done right, lest the ship embarrasses the nation.  Table service in the Wardroom will likely disappear, but these other tasks will still exist.

By the way, the "Deck Operations Study" is real.  It is happening and the occupations being looked at are Boatswain, Steward and the visual signalling part of Naval Communications.  No decisions have yet been made.
 

Lumber

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Pusser said:
I always find it interesting that people who enjoyed the benefits of a system in the past are so quick to change it after it no longer affects them.

The sad and dangerous part of all of this is that there is an awful lot of folks who don't know or understand what stewards actually do.  Yes, they provide service in the Wardroom, but they also manage the entire NPF organization on board the ship and are the on board hospitality experts.  These things are pretty important.  Like it or not, part of the RCN's mission is to show the flag around the world.  This involves diplomatic protocol and it needs to be done right, lest the ship embarrasses the nation.  Table service in the Wardroom will likely disappear, but these other tasks will still exist.

By the way, the "Deck Operations Study" is real.  It is happening and the occupations being looked at are Boatswain, Steward and the visual signalling part of Naval Communications.  No decisions have yet been made.

Just because I think a person's job is unnecessary doesn't mean I won't expect them to try their hardest and meet the standards of their trade.

And I am fully aware of the various responsibilities of the Stewards. Like someone else said, we can give the NPF Clerk jobs to a Fin Admin, and give combat first aide to the new deck ops trade.

Anyways, we're way off topic now.

When do I get my ship-in-refit sea-pay back-pay?
 

FSTO

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Pusser said:
I always find it interesting that people who enjoyed the benefits of a system in the past are so quick to change it after it no longer affects them.

The sad and dangerous part of all of this is that there is an awful lot of folks who don't know or understand what stewards actually do.  Yes, they provide service in the Wardroom, but they also manage the entire NPF organization on board the ship and are the on board hospitality experts.  These things are pretty important.  Like it or not, part of the RCN's mission is to show the flag around the world.  This involves diplomatic protocol and it needs to be done right, lest the ship embarrasses the nation.  Table service in the Wardroom will likely disappear, but these other tasks will still exist.

By the way, the "Deck Operations Study" is real.  It is happening and the occupations being looked at are Boatswain, Steward and the visual signalling part of Naval Communications.  No decisions have yet been made.

Could you imagine the shyte show that NPF would be if that was somebodies secondary duty? I also think that quite a few of our junior officers forget that an HMC Ship is a mobile floating base that has pretty much all the duties and responsibilities that are encompassed in CFB Halifax and Esquimalt. Finally, isn't everyone on board currently complaining that they are already overborne with watches and secondary responsibilities and they want to get rid of more people?? :facepalm:
 

Monsoon

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FSTO said:
Could you imagine the shyte show that NPF would be if that was somebodies secondary duty?
The same one that it is onboard ships and at shore units that don't have posted Stewards, I guess? What's the acceptable minimum cut-off for NPF perfection? The army certainly takes a very different approach.  :dunno:

I also think that quite a few of our junior officers forget that an HMC Ship is a mobile floating base that has pretty much all the duties and responsibilities that are encompassed in CFB Halifax and Esquimalt.
That it may be, but what it's supposed to be is a fighting unit with as little inherent supporting function in place as required to get the job done. I'm not a Steward-basher and have always defended that trade from jibes, but there is a legitimate question to be answered about the appropriate location of supporting functions in a 21st C warship.

Finally, isn't everyone on board currently complaining that they are already overborne with watches and secondary responsibilities and they want to get rid of more people?? :facepalm:
People are complaining now. They'll be complaining if/when a change is made. Complainers gonna complain; everyone else will keep on doing what needs to get done.
 

CountDC

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I imagine NPF will be passed to the FSA which will have training as it is part of our trade.
 

Lumber

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It's who does it in the reserves, and it is NOT a full time job.
 

FSTO

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Lumber said:
It's who does it in the reserves, and it is NOT a full time job.

True and I am always on guard in regards to errors (both inadvertent and deliberate) that will cause trouble.
 

Lumber

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FSTO said:
True and I am always on guard in regards to errors (both inadvertent and deliberate) that will cause trouble.

Now that you mention, aside from signing a few NPF cheques, I haven't had to deal with NPF related matter; not even once. Lucky for me, our NPFAO is a Class-A LogO.
 

Oldgateboatdriver

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Who else but a LogO would be NPFAO in a Naval Reserve Unit ???

Been in the Navres for 25 years and have never seen anybody else but your run of the mill two nights a week, 2 weeks in the summer, class A LogO type handle N.R.U. NPF.

And as the chain goes NPFAO -> Unit's Log O -> XO -> CO, I've never seen the Reg Force Mars support officer (whatever title they have had over time) have any involvement in NPF.
 

Lumber

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Oldgateboatdriver said:
Who else but a LogO would be NPFAO in a Naval Reserve Unit ???

Been in the Navres for 25 years and have never seen anybody else but your run of the mill two nights a week, 2 weeks in the summer, class A LogO type handle N.R.U. NPF.

And as the chain goes NPFAO -> Unit's Log O -> XO -> CO, I've never seen the Reg Force Mars support officer (whatever title they have had over time) have any involvement in NPF.

Well, I'm glad to hear I'm not being negligent!

However, I have seemed to get my fingers into every other cookie jar around here.
 

FSTO

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Oldgateboatdriver said:
Who else but a LogO would be NPFAO in a Naval Reserve Unit ???

Been in the Navres for 25 years and have never seen anybody else but your run of the mill two nights a week, 2 weeks in the summer, class A LogO type handle N.R.U. NPF.

And as the chain goes NPFAO -> Unit's Log O -> XO -> CO, I've never seen the Reg Force Mars support officer (whatever title they have had over time) have any involvement in NPF.
Well since we lost all our qualified Supply Officers last year, I was handled the mantle.

So, since then we have passed all inspections and haven't lost any NPF money, so that proves that Supply should be just another career stream for MARS, right?  >:D

(Now waiting for the totally deserved flying elbow smash from the top rope from Pusser! LOL!)
 

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Yes, NPFAO is not necessarily a full time job, but there's more to NPF. You have the warehouse manager, and three bar managers as well. There's more to NPF than just handling the money, someone has to handle the stuff, and they probably shouldn't be the same person.
 
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