Cpl Wilcox court martial - Sydney NS

[Engineer79]

If you do join the CF, you will be educated and become much more aware of how serious this matter is.

I'm looking forward to it thankyou

 

[Jarnhamar]

As far as the reaction to stress muscle memory quick draw defense goes- I won't mention the level of gunfighter training force protection gets.
Needless to say I'd put a lot of money that the Grossman style defense would be blown out of the water pretty quick considering the amount of training I believe they got.

Engineer79, Wilcox pulled the trigger.  In the military that's a pretty big deal.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

If it becomes evident that charges should be laid against "others up the CoC", where will it stop?  The PL WO?  Pl Comd?  CSM?  OC? 

 

[CountDC]

Even when playing around like Rambo with your weapons (everyone's done it at least once),

not everyone.  i was also taught from day one that you do not point a weapon at someone unless you intend to kill them and I have always adhered to that.  Even when playing enemy force with blanks I did not point my fn directly at the other side.  To say everyone has done it gives a slight tint of "it's ok as everyone does it" that I do not believe should be given.

 

[George Wallace]

If it becomes evident that charges should be laid against "others up the CoC", where will it stop?  The PL WO?  Pl Comd?  CSM?  OC?

Whoever has the sign on their desk stating "The Buck Stops Here".  It could go as high in that BG as the "Powers that Be" have the will to go.

 

[mariomike]

Sadly, it all reminds me of a case long ago in Niagara Falls, where one police officer shot another at the pistol range. If my memory is clear, he claimed he dropped his pistol and it went off, killing his friend. It would have been believed until an examination of the wound showed that the round entered on a near-horizontal trajectory. He ultimately admitted that he and his friend had been joking about the vests they had, and their stopping power...it got taken too far.

Sorry to nit pick. I would have modified my original post, but it is now too late. I took the time to re-read about the Niagara case in the newspaper archives, as I did not recall mention of a bullet resistant vest/body armour. It was well reported in 14 separate articles in the Star over the course of a year and a half, with no mention of body armour.
I mention this not to derail, or be argumentative, but because, as you say, the two cases do bear an eerie similarity. Also, they were at a range, but the shooting occurred while alone in the canteen area while they were awaiting others - they were both experienced gun handlers and members of the Niagara ETF - to begin the practice. After the incident, the shooter was removed from ETF and put back on regular street patrol.
If this post is irrelevant to the subject, Moderator please remove.

 

[Staff Weenie]

I looked into it and found the same thing. Maybe it was another incident - I distinctly remember that in an incident the Coroner's Office had noted the trajectory didn't make sense from the story, and upon further questioning, the Officer confessed that they had been joking about the new vests, and their supposed stopping power.

Who knows, at my age my memory is on the steep downhill decline and picking up speed.

 

[Dennis Ruhl]

Even when playing enemy force with blanks I did not point my fn directly at the other side. 

I used to offer free 7.62 colonoscopies to people firing blanks right at me close up.  I heard too many blanks can kill stories, BFA detaching stories, etc.  Besides I grew up with guns and pointing one at someone just wasn't right.

 

[Bass ackwards]

Mariomike and Staff Weenie: PM inbound

 

[1feral1]

They were playing a game, things went wrong, should he take a manslaughter blame? Put yourselves in his shoes.

Games?

His shoes?

This soldier must be held accountable for his actions. He can't lie his way out of this one. There is no excuse.

To even bring up the word as "games' as you call it, I find foolish in itself. Its almost as you accept this as a fun/normal practice.

Discipline by example.

Weapons are not toys, and skylarking with any weapon usually spells disaster and the outcome here, a unnecessary death.

On my tour, ther was no games with weapons PERIOD.

The rotation before us had a pistol death from skylarking ( ya, a regular force member), and all were warned prior to leaving. Any quikcdraws or pointing of weapons at one another would be met with charges and a quick trip home in disgrace.

Stupidity breeds in both components.

OWDU.

 

[Fusaki]

Needless to say I'd put a lot of money that the Grossman style defense would be blown out of the water pretty quick considering the amount of training I believe they got.

I don't think it's fair to refer to the Combat Stress Reaction thing as a "Grossman style defence".

Lt. Col. Grossman was asked by Timothy McVeigh's defence team to testify that McVeigh's Gulf War experience traumatized him into blowing up that building in Oklahoma City.  In response, Grossman volunteered himself as a witness for the prosecution.  He testified that as a former soldier McVeigh should be held to higher standards of discipline, not lower as the defence would have liked.

 

[super26]

Military jury finds soldier guilty in shooting
Updated Thu. Jul. 30 2009 4:15 PM ET

The Canadian Press

SYDNEY, N.S. -- A Canadian reservist has been found guilty of criminal negligence causing death in the shooting of a fellow soldier he shared a tent with in Afghanistan.

Cpl. Matthew Wilcox had pleaded not guilty to charges of manslaughter, criminal negligence causing death, and negligent performance of duty in the death of 25-year-old Kevin Megeney of Stellarton, N.S.

He was also found guilty today on the charge of negligent performance of guilty, but the manslaughter charge was stayed by a military jury deliberating on the case in Sydney, N.S.

In his instructions, the military judge, Cmdr. Peter Lamont, told the jurors they should use "common sense" in determining which theory to believe on what happened on March 6, 2007.

The defence has argued that the 24-year-old Wilcox -- who is from Glace Bay, N.S. -- was acting in self-defence, because he believed Megeney pointed his pistol at his back and readied it to fire.

But prosecutors argued Wilcox was playing a game called quick draw when his pistol was fired, basing its accusation on testimony of several friends Wilcox spoke to after the shooting.

 

[Occam]

N.S. soldier guilty of 2 charges in court martial

Article Link

Not guilty of manslaughter
Last Updated: Thursday, July 30, 2009 | 5:29 PM AT
CBC News

A military jury has found a Glace Bay, N.S., reservist guilty of criminal negligence causing death and negligent performance of a military duty in the death of another Canadian soldier in Afghanistan.

But Cpl. Matthew Wilcox, 24, was found not guilty of manslaughter.

The jury deliberated for only about two hours before finding Wilcox guilty on the two charges. The criminal negligence charge carries a maximum sentence of life in prison, while negligent performance of a military duty carries a maximum sentence of two years less a day in jail.

Wilcox had pleaded not guilty to the charges in the death of Cpl. Kevin Megeney of Stellarton.

Megeney died of a gunshot wound to the chest at Kandahar Airfield in 2007.

More later

 

[chris06]

Slight Hijack, but it's related....

Does anyone know how they picked the jury?

Does the number of jurors or the rank of jurors depend on the accused?

Is it members of the regular force only? Class B & C reservists?  I'm assuming you can't be selected for jury duty as a Class A reservist.

 

[mariomike]

Mariomike and Staff Weenie: PM inbound

I think this is the related story we are thinking of Bass ackwards and Staff Weenie:
http://img395.imageshack.us/i/niagarapolice2.pdf/

My apoligies. It looks too small on here. If you wish, I can e-mail the full size to you directly.

From the inquest: "Paolizzi startled Johnson after the two officers had been doing some quick draw practice in the range's registration room. The pistol discharged in such a way that no first aid effort could save his life."

 

[helpup]

But I wonder exactly how much practice would be required to form that skill, and does the CF routinely provide it and maintain it, or did he have some sort of equivalent training from the civilian world?

I just don’t buy his line though.

SW,  Muscle memory can be started in under 3 repititions. That I have to stress is started.  I can not recall what the exact ammount of practice to turn a motor control skills into a muscle memory but it is something that even if you have the basics of a action you wish to complete.  You only need to practice it enough to instill a muscle memory.  First slow ( ie slow is smooth).  Then fast ( i.e smooth is fast) Those soldiers would of had the range and scope to be able to practice this or these style of draws safely in a form of dry fire and that in itself is a legitiment form of practice.  ( Gunfighter drawing on each other is definately not)

I liken muscle memory to my troops as driving following a car. When you first learn to drive you need your attention firmly on the car in front and almost half to tell your foot to hit the brake when it slows down.  With experience though you actually start to put on the brake with out thinking about it when his tail lights come on ( and if you have to step too hard on the brakes you were not paying attention to the traffic in front of you)

 

[Gunner98]

Slight Hijack, but it's related....

Does anyone know how they picked the jury?

DND Backgrounder - http://www.forces.gc.ca/site/news-nouvelles/view-news-afficher-nouvelles-eng.asp?id=926

Excerpt: The General Court Martial, like all military tribunals, is a statutory court created by the National Defence Act. It is, therefore, limited to the powers and authority given to it by the National Defence Act. It is composed of 5 members randomly selected from the Canadian Forces Officers List; one of whom is appointed president. The President must be of or above the rank of Colonel. With certain exceptions this panel of officers performs the same function as a civilian jury.

Each General Court Martial also has a Judge Advocate appointed, who is a military trial judge and who performs a function very similar to the civilian court judge sitting with the jury. The Judge Advocate for a General Court Martial is appointed by the Chief Military Trial Judge of the Canadian Forces.

Comment:  If you review the history of the CM you will find that the Defence filed a motion/challenge resulting from the fact that none of the jury was an NCM and therefore, it could not be considered a jury of his peers.  The motion/challenge was over-ruled.

 

[dapaterson]

In addition, there was a challenge based on the exclusion of class A reservists.  The judge's ruling in that case was, in my opinion, flawed, and left ample grounds for appeal on procedural flaw.

 

[Dennis Ruhl]

If he appeals, he's a fool.  He was just handed a gift.  He's going to jail for a while but not a long while.  Appeal the sentence if needed but take the gift.

 

[40below]

If he appeals, he's a fool.  He was just handed a gift.  He's going to jail for a while but not a long while.  Appeal the sentence if needed but take the gift.

A gift? The maximum sentence for this crime is life in prison.