Cpl Wilcox court martial - Sydney NS

[kratz]

The defense is attempting to argue another constitutional challange due to the lack of sentancing options available to Court Martials.

from The Chronicle Herald

Qualms about military justice
Wilcox’s lawyer says lack of sentencing options creates "second-class" system
By LAURA FRASER Cape Breton Bureau
Thu. Sep 10 - 4:46 AM
SYDNEY — What would be the point in sending Cpl. Matthew Wilcox to a military prison if the Glace Bay soldier convicted of killing his comrade in Afghanistan is not allowed to return to the Canadian Forces?

It would be a "waste of time," the soldier’s lawyer said as he argued that the military justice system does not have an adequate scale of penalties to sentence soldiers that run afoul of the law.

"What’s the sense in keeping somebody who’s been (booted) from the military (at) the service prison, marching around in coveralls to a recruit’s level of discipline?" Maj. Stephen Turner said during a sentencing hearing Wednesday at the Sydney garrison.

Cpl. Wilcox is the first person convicted of killing a fellow Canadian soldier since the Afghanistan mission began, according to all the lawyers involved in the 24-year-old’s case.

A military panel heard six weeks of evidence before finding the reservist guilty July 30 of criminal negligence causing death and negligent performance of a military duty. Cpl. Wilcox had been facing the more serious charge of manslaughter but was found not guilty.

Cpl. Wilcox’s lawyers say the Canadian military justice system must be overhauled so that offending soldiers receive the same range of sentences as civilians who go before the bench.

The military system has no options for parole, conditional sentences or probation, which results in a form of "second-class justice," Maj. Turner said.

He said the court should declare the section of the National Defence Act governing such practices unconstitutional.

more at link

 

[George Wallace]

"What’s the sense in keeping somebody who’s been (booted) from the military (at) the service prison, marching around in coveralls to a recruit’s level of discipline?" Maj. Stephen Turner said during a sentencing hearing Wednesday at the Sydney garrison.

???

Perhaps if I look at it this way it may make sense:

"What’s the sense in keeping somebody who’s been (booted) from his job at Ford (at) Collins Bay prison?"

Nope!  That doesn't make any more sense.



Talk about trying to prolong the inevitable.

 

[Kat Stevens]

"What’s the sense in keeping somebody who’s been (booted) from the military (at) the service prison, marching around in coveralls to a recruit’s level of discipline?" Maj. Stephen Turner said during a sentencing hearing Wednesday at the Sydney garrison.

Ummm, because he... killed...someone, maybe?

 

[X-mo-1979]

"Cpl. Wilcox’s lawyers say the Canadian military justice system must be overhauled so that offending soldiers receive the same range of sentences as civilians who go before the bench."

Comparing soldiers to civilians....not applicable.Civilians don't get trusted to walk around foreign countries and kill people.Civilians are not held to the same standard to ensure discipline for the rough job soldiers are faced with.With responsibility comes consequences.
He wasnt a responsible soldier.Now he will pay the price....as he made his friend pay.

Thanks DAPATERSON.

I'm betting he gets released.Thats all.

 

[Kat Stevens]

This wasn't an industrial accident.  This guy slapped leather, pointed and fired.  What is accidental about that?

 

[mariomike]

Regarding industrial accidents: I forgot that in 2004 the Criminal Code of Canada was ammended to expand the scope of liability for criminal negligence in the workplace:
http://www.blakes.com/english/view_disc.asp?ID=240

 

[armyvern]

I'm betting he gets released.Thats all.

I'm betting he does some time in Club Ed prior to that release; we do have a precedent - Somalia. MCpl Tony Smith spent some time there after an ND of his caused the death of his friend and fellow soldier Cpl Mike Abel (and found himself with even more time there added on after the prosecution requested a review of the initial sentence).

The circumstances in this thread's incident seem to be even more negligent (to me) as Cpl Wilcox meant (ie: intended) to point that weapon exactly where it ended up ...

 

[X-mo-1979]

I'm betting he does some time in Club Ed prior to that release; we do have a precedent - Somalia. MCpl Tony Smith spent some time there after an ND of his caused the death of his friend and fellow soldier Cpl Mike Abel (and found himself with even more time there added on after the prosecution requested a review of the initial sentence).

The circumstances in this thread's incident seem to be even more negligent (to me) as Cpl Wilcox meant (ie: intended) to point that weapon exactly where it ended up ...

I hope your right Vern.I really do.However I still think he's gonna be walking around N.S as a civi free.Call it a lack of trust in justice in the system I guess.

 

[Harley Sailor]

I remember being told that 2 years was the most you could spend in Club ED.  And that if you get sentenced to more then 2 years you get moved over to Civi cells right away.  This info came about when a west coaster high jacked a ship with a C1 and told the officer of the watch to that the ship to land so he could get off.  He got five years but tried to get his time dropped to 2 years so he could do it in Club ED, other wise he would have to move to civi cells.

Has this changed???

 

[FastEddy]

I hope your right Vern.I really do.However I still think he's gonna be walking around N.S as a civi free.Call it a lack of trust in justice in the system I guess.

Your just figuring that out now.

Theres certainly a Righteous Bunch of people  around here calling for Wilcox's blood.

I wonder if they have the same attitude when they pour out of the Clubs or Mess's at closing and get into their SUV's for that drive home.

No I don't think Cpl. Wilcox should go free. Of course a prison sentence is in the wind, but the general consensus is, lets throw away the key.

Is it because he's in the Military and a NCO. By that token, a Civilian, 40 yr old, Family Man, Colledge Educated, Businessman is just as responsible and should be held to as higher standard in the eyes of the Law, when he gets pissed to the eyeballs and drives up on the sidewalk killing a Mother out with her Daughter in a stroller.

If your disillusioned about our Courts & System, we just put away a Scum Bag with 19 DUI's who finally killed a Handicap Woman in a Wheelchair. He got life (that's a joke), he'll be up for parole in seven years.

 

[armyvern]

Your just figuring that out now.

Theres certainly a Righteous Bunch of people  around here calling for Wilcox's blood.

I wonder if they have the same attitude when they pour out of the Clubs or Mess's at closing and get into their SUV's for that drive home.

I want to see him do some time in jail. I don't drive drunk. I do drive an SUV.  Pretty righteous blanket statement from yourself stating that we do.

No I don't think Cpl. Wilcox should go free. Of course a prison sentence is in the wind, but the general consensus is, lets throw away the key.

As pretty much seems to be the consensus here. Ex-Mo doesn't think he'll get any jail time at all, but hopes that he does. You call that "crying for blood"? Pretty righteous statement of you there too.

Is it because he's in the Military and a NCO. By that token, a Civilian, 40 yr old, Family Man, Colledge Educated, Businessman is just as responsible and should be held to as higher standard in the eyes of the Law, when he gets pissed to the eyeballs and drives up on the sidewalk killing a Mother out with her Daughter in a stroller.

If your disillusioned about our Courts & System, we just put away a Scum Bag with 19 DUI's who finally killed a Handicap Woman in a Wheelchair. He got life (that's a joke), he'll be up for parole in seven years.

You'll see that most posters in this thread have also made comments (here or other threads) about the absolutely dismal state of Canada's Criminal Justice system and the weak (or none!!) sentences it doles out. Their disillusionment certainly carries over to that system too.

Pretty righteous of you to claim that those wanting to see Wilcox in jail don't care enough about criminals out on civi street either. Read your post again - that's exactly what you've done.

PS: and for the record lest you think "I don't care" either ... I'd have like to see the judge toss on the Dangerous Offender status in your example case; you're disillusioned, yet I am not really. Life for drunk driving ... that is quite the sentence in and of itself and is precedent setting. The system isn't anywhere near to being fixed, you certainly could have come up with a case where drunken driver killed two people and got a mere two years ... (two kids actually, as we walked home from Canex [1982] after having bought our Mother their Mothers Day Cards) if you want to show an example of shitty justice being doled out.

 

[Kat Stevens]

I never said I wanted his blood, I said he pointed a weapon at someone and pulled the trigger and should pay for it.  The system is in desperate need of a serious un-fucking when it comes to sentencing.  I get angry any time a human life is taken unnecessarily, and the perpetrator isn't made to pay an appropriate penalty.  His being an NCO, NCM, whatever, is irrelevant to me, especially seeing as I was at the last link in the food chain for 23 years.

 

[mariomike]

Life for drunk driving ... that is quite the sentence in and of itself and is precedent setting. The system isn't anywhere near to being fixed, you certainly could have come up with a case where drunken driver killed two people and got a mere two years ... (two kids actually, as we walked home from Canex [1982] after having bought our Mother their Mothers Day Cards) if you want to show an example of shitty justice being doled out.

MADD estimates that alcohol related traffic fatalities are down considerably since 1982. I believe that to be true. If I recall correctly, drunk driving in the 1970's was a $50 ticket. I know what they say about statistics, however I think with tougher laws, and collision safety improvements in automobiles these days, that lives are being saved:
http://www.madd.ca/english/research/lives_saved.pdf

 

[X-mo-1979]

I wonder if they have the same attitude when they pour out of the Clubs or Mess's at closing and get into their SUV's for that drive home.

Sorry,don't drink and drive (actually almost got charged for public drunkenness for ..for being outside waiting for my wife to come get me..ironic eh? ).I also don't treat weapons with a disregard and leave buddies bleeding out to die overseas leaving families without a loved one.However talking about "Righteous Bunch of people"...mirror check.

Is it because he's in the Military and a NCO NCM.

Yes.As his only job is to be proficient in his job.This person was so unprofessional he killed another NCM.

Nowhere did anyone say they wanted blood....I think Mr.Wilcox spilled enough of that.All I want to see is a lengthy prison term.Which again I don't think he will get.

 

[FastEddy]

I want to see him do some time in jail. I don't drive drunk. I do drive an SUV.  Pretty righteous blanket statement from yourself stating that we do.

As pretty much seems to be the consensus here. Ex-Mo doesn't think he'll get any jail time at all, but hopes that he does. You call that "crying for blood"? Pretty righteous statement of you there too.

You'll see that most posters in this thread have also made comments (here or other threads) about the absolutely dismal state of Canada's Criminal Justice system and the weak (or none!!) sentences it doles out. Their disillusionment certainly carries over to that system too.

Pretty righteous of you to claim that those wanting to see Wilcox in jail don't care enough about criminals out on civi street either. Read your post again - that's exactly what you've done.

PS: and for the record lest you think "I don't care" either ... I'd have like to see the judge toss on the Dangerous Offender status in your example case; you're disillusioned, yet I am not really. Life for drunk driving ... that is quite the sentence in and of itself and is precedent setting. The system isn't anywhere near to being fixed, you certainly could have come up with a case where drunken driver killed two people and got a mere two years ... (two kids actually, as we walked home from Canex [1982] after having bought our Mother their Mothers Day Cards) if you want to show an example of shitty justice being doled out.

Well good for you Vern its nice to know our roads are safe somewhere. You can dissect, misquote, play on words and take out of context all you want. Which some readers do to make a point, which you seem to have down to a art form. But I think you went a bit overboard with the Righteous bit.

However, I find when some people protest to much, I have a tendency to get suspicious.

As for examples, one is as tragic and important as another.

If the general attitude towards Cpl. Wilcox is not hostel, then I'm reading a diffrent tread and nobody was singled out or named. But if the shoe fits.

Again, DUI and DUI's causing Death or serious injury are two different cases of fish, IMO, one deserves Jail time and one deserves Life.

If you think we don't have our share of Stupid or Silly Asses in the Military that are capable under the right circumstances to do something as bizarre as Cpl. Wilcox, watch your six. 

 

[Eye In The Sky]

This thread is about Cpl Wilcox, who was the idiot who pulled the trigger that killed a fellow Canadian soldier.  I was at the victims funeral.  I saw the family and friends of Cpl Kevin Megeney that day.  Who should we "point the finger at", if not the guilty party and the (probably lenient) legal/justice system in our country?

This point, IMO is NOT one that can be argued:

Cpl Wilcox killed a fellow soldier.

And if some of us on here ARE "out for blood" as you say...so?  So what?  HE KILLED SOMEONE OUT OF HIS OWN STUPIDITY.

That is not even talking about the dishonour he brought into the trial by trying to blame it on the soldier, the young man, that he fatally shot!  Is there anything more low and cowardly he could have done?  Maybe to Canadian society this is acceptable, but, to me, in the "soldiers code" or whatever you want to call it...it sure ain't.  He was innocent until proven guilty, and he's been proven guilty.  I'd like to see him get the max.  He pulled the trigger.  No one else did.

I can't believe you are arguing your point on here in his defence, or trying to talk about drunk driving.  Relevance?  Anyone?

 

[Fishbone Jones]

EITS is right about the thread content.

So, FastEddy and the rest can knock off the petty arguments and the drunk driving strawman discussion.

Fin

Milnet.ca Staff

 

[old medic]

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20090911/Afghan_shooting_090911/20090911?hub=Canada

Mother of convicted Canadian soldier apologizes
The Canadian Press

SYDNEY, N.S. -- The mother of a Canadian soldier convicted of fatally shooting a fellow reservist in Afghanistan broke down and cried on Friday as she apologized in court to the parents who lost their young son.

Ann Wilcox, testifying at the court martial of her son, Cpl. Matthew Wilcox, told the parents of Cpl. Kevin Megeney that she and her husband Keith wanted them to know "how sorry we are."

The emergency room nurse from Glace Bay, N.S., told the military court that her 24-year-old son was once an energetic, outgoing and respectful young man who was deeply involved in his community -- but that was before his deployment to Afghanistan.

Since the accidental shooting in 2007, she says her son has become withdrawn, rarely sleeps, has violent nightmares and could be prone to suicidal thoughts.

Matthew Wilcox's father Keith testified that the family is still on a "rollercoaster of emotion," having failed to find a way to help their troubled son ­-- and he says he can't imagine what the Megeney family is going through.

The 24-year-old corporal, convicted in July of criminal negligence causing death and neglect of duty, is expected to be sentenced later today or Saturday.

 

[Jarnhamar]

The reason people seem 'out for blood' isn't because he made a mistake.
It's because he made a grievous mistake and lacked the courage and honour to own up to it.

Almost every single person here saw through his bullshit I thought I was under attack[i/] defense.  Had he owned up to his actions I'm willing to bet the attitude of the majority of the posters here would be much different, or at least more subdued.

 

[danchapps]

I remember being told that 2 years was the most you could spend in Club ED.  And that if you get sentenced to more then 2 years you get moved over to Civi cells right away.  This info came about when a west coaster high jacked a ship with a C1 and told the officer of the watch to that the ship to land so he could get off.  He got five years but tried to get his time dropped to 2 years so he could do it in Club ED, other wise he would have to move to civi cells.

Has this changed???

I heard a story (I can't verify this of course) where someone was sentenced to 7 years. Served 2, was released from Club Ed for a couple of hours or something like that, then taken BACK into custody for another 2 years. This continued for the full 7 years. I really wish I could verify this, however I can't.


Now my 2 cents on the situation. I feel bad for Cpl Wilcox to be honest. I can't imagine the burden he must have now. That being said, he earned some time in Military prison, this much is a given. As for his lawyers claiming "What is the point if he's just being released anyway?" That argument is a load of horse s***. Are we not held to a military standard for 2 years AFTER release? The military justice system may be archaic, however compared to the civilian side there is a higher level of rehabilitation from the military prison. I hate to say, but the civie prisons are too soft, that's just my 2 cents.