Component Transfer ( CT ) - Reserve to Regular

[Sig_Des]

I'm trying to find the Documentation as to x ammount of days class B Service = RSBP, but I'm not sure. It would be somewhere in a PLAR matrix under DMCA, I imagine. Either that, or something in CFRG. I do know it exists. Somewhere in the 52-56 day range, but I can't find the documentation.

As far as pay protection, here's a direct quote from CF Mil Pers Instruction 03 08

There is no guaranteed pay protection on transfer from the Res F to the Reg F

Time Credit for Promotion and Pay Increment are based off Previous Full-Time Paid Service.

And as far as Rank Protection, that is only at the uncontrolled rank level.

Most of this stuff and the applicable refs can be found in the Mil Pers Instruction:

http://hr.dwan.dnd.ca/docs/instruction/instructions/engraph/pdf/CF_Mil_Pers_Instr_03_08_e.pdf

 

[bran]

I have to add my 2 cents to this kind of thought.  Lets think about this for a second.  First, in the Reserves, you'd have to complete your BMQ, SQ and DP1 courses (depending, this could be the better part of a year and in some cases longer), then find a Class B position you qualified for as a Pte/Tpr/Gnr/Spr/OS, whichever your case is, and spend *x* amount of days in it (if this is even an official policy).  I used to be part of the Hiring/Selection Board for Class B positions at the CBG HQ I worked at for Jnr NCO and Pte positions, and I don't remember sitting on a single board that only had 1 applicant, so you are competing with people usually for Cl B positions (not always the case but is sometimes), so there is no guaruntee you will even get a Class B (you have to meet all the fitness requirements, etc etc as well).  If you aren't screened out by meeting the requirements on the Employment Opportunity msg, then you get to compete with everyone else who has an interest in the position.  Again, some of the Class B aren't that difficult but, having been a Class B Commando for a longgggggggg time before I CTd, I can tell you, some of them are.

Why would you go thru all that to avoid 10 weeks/2.5-3 months of BMQ?  Sure, do 2 years in the Res, buy back your time, I know all about that.  Sure, there are some hassles on BMQ, but are they REALLY worth putting off a Reg Force career, if that is what you really want, for the sake of 10 weeks?  Those 2 years in the Reg Force, you'd be half way to Cpl, trained to a QL3 level (or close, depending on your MOC) and have 2 years pensionable time under your belt.

IMO, if you really want to be Reg Force but your decisions are based around the RSB, how bad to you really want in? 

You make some good points, I had no idea that a class B contract was that hard to come by. I just wanted to put a little information under my belt so if I do decide to CT I will know what I'm in for. If gaining a class B is that difficult, doing recruit school again would surly be the way to go.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

You make some good points, I had no idea that a class B contract was that hard to come by. I just wanted to put a little information under my belt so if I do decide to CT I will know what I'm in for. If gaining a class B is that difficult, doing recruit school again would surly be the way to go.

Some of them are, some of them aren't.  But...you should never count on a Class B is the point.  Even when you have one, it can be terminated for various reasons in 30 days.

 

[The_Falcon]

The only caution I'll give you is this (And this is speaking from personal experience). Don't allow Class B to become a career, it's only a short term job, and have your plan and stick to it.

+1 There is a reason Class Bs are typically 1 year (or in some cases 3) contracts. 

Some of them are, some of them aren't.  But...you should never count on a Class B is the point.  Even when you have one, it can be terminated for various reasons in 30 days.

Yup, and I will add to that, most Class B positions, (beyond the summer tasking/course support), tend to be of the "support" type (ie clerks, stormen etc.), that require skills and experience (usually computer programs like Claims X) that most infantry types (such as you ONT) do not posses.  Even if the message says any trade can apply it will have in brackets, RMS/Sup Tech etc/MSE Op etc. preferred, which means, if you as infantry soldier apply, and are competing against one of those "preferred" people, guess who is going to get the job.  That isn't to say you can't somehow learn the specialized skills (eg my unit's fin clk, and CClk are both infantry MCpls, and learned the knoweledge they needed to do their jobs through the OJT method).  The other obstacle is rank. There are very very few (if any) long term Class B's that a Pte(B) can apply for.  The minimum rank is typically Cpl, and in some cases a Snr Pte(t). 

 

[Sonnyjim]

I completed a CT about 6 months back after having been in the reserves for just under 2 years. I was only given the days I worked in the reserves transfered to my regular force contract. The length of time you have in has no bearing (ie. 4 years in reserves could only mean you worked 250 days in those 4 years). Just because you have the rank of Cpl. in the reserves means absolutely nothing when it comes to CT's atleast as far as I'm concerned. I was lucky enough to have a good Regiment with good quaility and extra training dates which allowed me to accumulate some extra work days towards my transfer. I still had to re-do my DP1 Infantry course and was docked paygrade as well as rank (hook Pte. to no hook and a few weeks from Cpl.). I was given a paygrade based on the ammount of actual working days I had in the reserves. If I had been a Cpl. in the reserves for 4 years but only had 200 working days, I would have lost my rank to no hook private and been paid a level 1 Private. They do this because to be a qualified Private in the reserves it took me 12 weeks and in the Regular Force it takes 28 weeks. You get your hook right after DP1 in the reserves but it takes a year and a half in battalion to get your hook. Same with Cpl. it takes 2 years in Reserves and 4 in Regs (again depending) so there is that difference in rank structure as well which is why the pay and the rank is lowered when CTing. Overall though in my personal experience I opted to re-do my DP1 Infantry to freshen up my skills and get to know the people I was going to be working with. It was a rough go, but a good go and I'm very glad that I went through with it rather than trying to get more days on my watch. Was a bit all over the map but hope you could get some points out of it.

 

[The_Falcon]

I completed a CT about 6 months back after having been in the reserves for just under 2 years. I was only given the days I worked in the reserves transfered to my regular force contract. The length of time you have in has no bearing (ie. 4 years in reserves could only mean you worked 250 days in those 4 years).

Length of time absolutely has bearing, even if it is just just class A.  You still recieve credit for those days, even if it isn't much. 

Just because you have the rank of Cpl. in the reserves means absolutely nothing when it comes to CT's atleast as far as I'm concerned.

Well then good thing it is not up to you, its up to the Managing Authorities for each trade in consultation with DMCA, to decide if you get to keep Cpl rank (if you have attained it) or not.  If they feel you have a enough TI, experience, courses etc. then you keep it.

I was lucky enough to have a good Regiment with good quaility and extra training dates which allowed me to accumulate some extra work days towards my transfer.

Doing extra Class A days doesn't help you at all with it comes to figuring out the Time Credit incentive for CTs.  The way it works is thus.  Take the entire time you were in the reserves and presume it to be straight Class A. Your case 2 years.  2x365=730.  Now if you had any Class B time you would subtract it from the first number, (eg summer tasking =60 days Class B) so 730-60=670.  Now you divide that by 4, 670/4=167.5, and add back the Class B 167.5+60=227.5.  Thats the what you get credit for.  You don't add up each individual Class A day then divide by 4, you take the entire year, how many class A days you worked is irrelevant.

I still had to re-do my DP1 Infantry course and was docked paygrade as well as rank (hook Pte. to no hook and a few weeks from Cpl.). I was given a paygrade based on the ammount of actual working days I had in the reserves.

You weren't docked anything. There is no pay/rank protection when CT from Res to Reg.  And you were given your paygrade, based upon the Time Credit formula, not how many Class A days you worked.

If I had been a Cpl. in the reserves for 4 years but only had 200 working days, I would have lost my rank to no hook private and been paid a level 1 Private.

Thats usually the case however, Cpl is an uncontrolled rank, so losing it is not automatic.

They do this because to be a qualified Private in the reserves it took me 12 weeks and in the Regular Force it takes 28 weeks.

Trade Dependant

You get your hook right after DP1 in the reserves but it takes a year and a half in battalion to get your hook. Same with Cpl. it takes 2 years in Reserves and 4 in Regs (again depending) so there is that difference in rank structure as well which is why the pay and the rank is lowered when CTing.

Again it depends on what trade you are coming from/going to.  And again thats not why your pay and rank MAY be lowered. 

 

[Sonnyjim]

Well that just about clears things up for me and I'm sure for the guy who asked the question in the first place.

 

[Stoker]

There is no pay/rank protection when CT from Res to Reg. 

There is in some cases, IF you are Class C you can keep your res pay rate until your reg pay catches up.

 

[The_Falcon]

There is in some cases, IF you are Class C you can keep your res pay rate until your reg pay catches up.

I know, I was trying to keep things as simple as possible in my explanation.  The whole process is already confusing enough for some people I didn't want to add to it.

 

[Castus]

I joined the CF very recently, swore in a year and a few days ago to the PRes and started going to my unit in February. Nothing really was important, though, until I started on my courses in May. I did my BMQ through DP1 this summer, finishing in early August. Had it not been for a couple of torn ligaments in my ankle (which I ended up reinjuring later on, but are now fully healed) I would have applied for a component transfer to Reg Force immediately. In fact, I kind of regret not join the Regs right off the bat, even though I do love my regiment.

In any case, I put a memo up the CoC last week, and my MCpl handed it up to the Platoon LT. I'm slotted in for an interview with him on Tuesday.

Here comes the catch - since I've been discussing this, I've been told by a very large amount of people that it's not a good idea if I want to end up doing Regs. Obviously, I'd like to go on roto with the Forces in my trade, which is infantry. I literally just got my hook, which means if I CT then I will have to redo my SQ and DP1 courses, Regs, to regain it back. I don't have a problem with redoing courses, but at the same time I want to move on this as soon as possible. I've also been told that being promoted after CTing in this way will take forever and a half, even to Corporal.

What I was advised, recently, was to apply for the next roto whose training has not started yet. Several guys who are on FO training right now, several more who have done tours as Reservists, some of them staying PRes and others transferring to Reg Force and a few guys who've only been Reg Force have advised me of this. I'm all for making my own decisions but this is a lot of weight in favour of doing a roto as a reservist, then choosing to move up to Reg Force at the end of the tour and keeping my rank and qualifications. I wanted to get other people's opinions, on this board, if possible.

Thanks!
Pte. Confused

 

[George Wallace]

I joined the CF very recently, swore in a year and a few days ago to the PRes and started going to my unit in February. Nothing really was important, though, until I started on my courses in May. I did my BMQ through DP1 this summer, finishing in early August. Had it not been for a couple of torn ligaments in my ankle (which I ended up reinjuring later on, but are now fully healed) I would have applied for a component transfer to Reg Force immediately. In fact, I kind of regret not join the Regs right off the bat, even though I do love my regiment.

In any case, I put a memo up the CoC last week, and my MCpl handed it up to the Platoon LT. I'm slotted in for an interview with him on Tuesday.

Here comes the catch - since I've been discussing this, I've been told by a very large amount of people that it's not a good idea if I want to end up doing Regs. Obviously, I'd like to go on roto with the Forces in my trade, which is infantry. I literally just got my hook, which means if I CT then I will have to redo my SQ and DP1 courses, Regs, to regain it back. I don't have a problem with redoing courses, but at the same time I want to move on this as soon as possible. I've also been told that being promoted after CTing in this way will take forever and a half, even to Corporal.

What I was advised, recently, was to apply for the next roto whose training has not started yet. Several guys who are on FO training right now, several more who have done tours as Reservists, some of them staying PRes and others transferring to Reg Force and a few guys who've only been Reg Force have advised me of this. I'm all for making my own decisions but this is a lot of weight in favour of doing a roto as a reservist, then choosing to move up to Reg Force at the end of the tour and keeping my rank and qualifications. I wanted to get other people's opinions, on this board, if possible.

Thanks!
Pte. Confused

Sounds like you have had some Bovine Scatology sent your way.  Have you bothered to read the Topic on this site specifically dealing with CT from Reserve to Reg Force?  We don't need to start a whole new topic on something we have covered in the past.  The story gets rather old.

Perhaps look here: http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/69570/post-658689.html#msg658689

 

[Castus]

Well, I did read this : http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/17678.0.html

Not sure if that's the topic you're talking about, but it's filled with some pretty bad stories of people waiting years for things to advance. It kind of seemed to coincide with what I was told by people who are at my unit/used to be with us before CTing after a roto/are just reg force.

Anyways, I'm not really sure what to think, at this point.

 

[Nfld Sapper]

Well, I did read this : http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/17678.0.html

Not sure if that's the topic you're talking about, but it's filled with some pretty bad stories of people waiting years for things to advance. It kind of seemed to coincide with what I was told by people who are at my unit/used to be with us before CTing after a roto/are just reg force.

Anyways, I'm not really sure what to think, at this point.

Yeah that was a project started by the former CDS.

 

[Sonnyjim]

Hey Castus,

If you're serious about making this a career choice then I would suggest that you get all the experience you can get. There is no SQ course in Reg Force but you will have to do the new 17 week DP1 Infantry Reg Force Training (+ or - a few weeks on holding platoon but it's good for your PT). Don't try to cut corners if you're serious about this, and get the most ammount of experience you can get. You will do training during that 17 weeks that you may not get even at Batallion and certainly did not come close to getting in DP1 Reserve. You will earn the respect of your peers and have something to show. And who cares about rank, nobody does in the regs. All we care about is our pay raise, not a hook or losing a hook or any of that (maybe some). Just my thoughts.

 

[Castus]

I'm absolutely serious about this (and I could probably use the extra PT to boot, I feel off a bit since my injury heh). I just really don't want to spend a year in a holding platoon, as someone from my regiment did a few years back when he did a straight transfer. I don't know, maybe the transfer has been streamlined?

From the link the GW posted, it looks like the Reg Force DP1 is WAY more extensive than ours, which was pretty much us moving ahead at breakneck pace and not getting to cover everything in depth. We had great staff, a lot of them very senior MCpls and Sgts but the curriculum just sucked, period. It's seriously something to consider... guess I'll see when I talk to my LT about it on Tuesday.

Anyone got more advice?

 

[Sig_Des]

Yeah.

Anyone got more advice?

Yeah. If this is want you want to do, full time, then do it, and do it now. Don't get sidetracked, don't think about doing it after a course/tasking/whatever. Put in your paperwork toute suite.

You'll have to do more courses, fine, put then you get more experience.

Hell, you could probably start the paperwork, and STILL put in for a tour. That's what I did, came home, did my post-deployment, and then reported into my Reg F unit.

Dependant on how long it takes you, you very well may have your second hook by the time your transfer takes effect. And I can tell you that the difference in Res Cpl 0 and huge compared to Reg P2, P3, which you may get when you switch.

I spent a lot more time in the Res than I'd planned, because I kept putting things off.

 

[Castus]

Well, I put in my memo last week. My platoon LT will prolly direct me to the CRTC (from what I've been reading) or get the BOR to have my start filling out the paperwork. I really don't want to drag this out any longer than it has to. I'd like to just get going with it so that I can start my career. Looks like the decision's pretty much made.

 

[Nfld Sapper]

Well, I put in my memo last week. My platoon LT will prolly direct me to the CRTC (from what I've been reading) or get the BOR to have my start filling out the paperwork. I really don't want to drag this out any longer than it has to. I'd like to just get going with it so that I can start my career. Looks like the decision's pretty much made.

To the Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission  ???

 

[geo]

Ummm.... he mighta meant CFRC

 

[The_Falcon]

Well, I put in my memo last week. My platoon LT will prolly direct me to the CRTC (from what I've been reading) or get the BOR to have my start filling out the paperwork. I really don't want to drag this out any longer than it has to. I'd like to just get going with it so that I can start my career. Looks like the decision's pretty much made.

Your Pl Cmd SHOULD be directing you to fill out the this form http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/70341/post-673331.html#msg673331 and emailing to Ottawa.  To put it bluntly your CofC has SFA to do with the CT process now.  Heck you don't even need to tell them your CTing, its a nice jesture but they have no control over the process anymore, your BOR/HQ gets an email from Ottawa saying Member X is CTing, send the appropriate files to the nearest CFRC.  They are no longer involved in the process specifically because some units/CO's had the habit of holding up/delaying members from CTing for months/year on end.