Committment Needed

[kratz]

IN HOC SIGNO;

One of the best 'Padre Hour' that I attended, had the visiting Padre tell it like it is and he pulled no punches to the young OS and AB in the crowd.  He made it clear to those entering the service what commitment would be expected of them. Keep up the good work.

 

[Vash13]

The thing that really ticks me off, is people who join, who at their very core, whether they can admit it or not, are there for themselves, not for their brothers and sisters, and not for their country.  Of course you always need to look out for yourself, you gain much from the training and all that jazz, but I don't know about anyone else, but I am joining the CF to get away from all this 'me me me' B....S.... that has plunged our world into the state it is in now.  I am not saying that you have to put your life on the line for something you don't believe in, it's all our individual freedom, but I am so sick of this self-serving attitude that seems to be plaguing EVERYTHING in EVERY aspect of life.  If you sign on, and fulfill your contract, and decide to discharge, that's completely fine.  But what gets me is the fact that you wear the uniform, you bear your country's flag, and you represent the core of your country's beliefs, and if you are wearing that uniform under false pretenses, well...  Whether you fulfill the contract or not.  It's just a piece of paper, a political (I don't mean politics of government) agreement.  If you aren't there for the right reasons, contract or not, you should not be in the forces.  Maybe I am blinded by my own sense of selflessness, my attitude towards commitment, but it's my .02, for whatever it is worth.  To me, the forces are a way of life, job, career, and money play only an indirect role.  The man/woman beside me is what really matters.

 

[SupersonicMax]

The thing that really ticks me off, is people who join, who at their very core, whether they can admit it or not, are there for themselves, not for their brothers and sisters, and not for their country.  Of course you always need to look out for yourself, you gain much from the training and all that jazz, but I don't know about anyone else, but I am joining the CF to get away from all this 'me me me' B....S.... that has plunged our world into the state it is in now.  I am not saying that you have to put your life on the line for something you don't believe in, it's all our individual freedom, but I am so sick of this self-serving attitude that seems to be plaguing EVERYTHING in EVERY aspect of life.  If you sign on, and fulfill your contract, and decide to discharge, that's completely fine.  But what gets me is the fact that you wear the uniform, you bear your country's flag, and you represent the core of your country's beliefs, and if you are wearing that uniform under false pretenses, well...  Whether you fulfill the contract or not.  It's just a piece of paper, a political (I don't mean politics of government) agreement.  If you aren't there for the right reasons, contract or not, you should not be in the forces.  Maybe I am blinded by my own sense of selflessness, my attitude towards commitment, but it's my .02, for whatever it is worth.  To me, the forces are a way of life, job, career, and money play only an indirect role.  The man/woman beside me is what really matters.

I don,t totally agree with you there.  Yes, you need a certain level of dedication to be in the military.  However, if your only option is the military, that is kinda foolish.  You always have to keep your options open.  And the CFs knows that and they provide you with the tools so that if one day you can't do/don't want to be in the military anymore, you'll have something to revert to.  It's a balance. You NEED to take care of yourself.  The day you won't be happy anymore in the Forces is the day you'll become a burden rather than a usefull ressource.  This is at that time that you need to reconsider your career.

On the same note, if at the end of your contract, you find something better for yourself or your family, you would be foolish not to take an opportunity that will be better for you.

Max

 

[Vash13]

I agree fully.  My argument is not about the people who change/mature etc. throughout their time in the forces, but rather those who join strictly for the benefits and not the duty/sense of honour/the life itself, initially.  I totally agree that the military hones you and changes occur within a person all the time, it is a fundamental part of being a human, and you are completely correct in regards to opportunity etc.  I hate leeches, period.  That's my only argument  

 

[IN HOC SIGNO]

I agree fully.  My argument is not about the people who change/mature etc. throughout their time in the forces, but rather those who join strictly for the benefits and not the duty/sense of honour/the life itself, initially.  I totally agree that the military hones you and changes occur within a person all the time, it is a fundamental part of being a human, and you are completely correct in regards to opportunity etc.  I hate leeches, period.  That's my only argument  

And then there's the "pension prisoners" 15 years into a 20 or 25 year contract who are miserable and non productive but stay to get the pension making everyone else miserable too.

 

[Bobby Rico]

Well, if I might play Devil's Advocate with regards to Vash's statement about joining for personal reasons-

I think there HAS to be a personal motivating factor to wanting to join the Forces.  I can't speak for everyone, but I know there was one for me- I wanted to better myself by joining an organization greater than me, and give myself a higher calling in life than the average Joe.  That's a very personal reason for wanting to join.  Additionally, my father, whose also a currently serving member of our forces, served as another personally motivating factor- I wanted to follow in his footsteps.  I've always revered my father, and he's one of the most grounded and honorable men I've ever met, and is an example as the kind of man I want to be- and he became that man through his career with the military.

So in a way, I am in the military for personal reasons.  Not completely, but there should be a personal factor for wanting to join.

 

[deedster]

Bobby,
Very commendable aspirations, you sound like you're well on your way to becoming the man your father is...the CF are lucky to have you (both)!  And then there are people like myself who suddenly get "the calling" after spending most of their adult years as civilians. It's never too late to serve our great country and I hope to have the opportunity in whichever way I can.   

 

[medaid]

I agree fully.  My argument is not about the people who change/mature etc. throughout their time in the forces, but rather those who join strictly for the benefits and not the duty/sense of honour/the life itself, initially.  I totally agree that the military hones you and changes occur within a person all the time, it is a fundamental part of being a human, and you are completely correct in regards to opportunity etc.  I hate leeches, period.  That's my only argument  

Huh.. and you are so experienced in this field with regards to retention, and applicant reasons for joining because? In the Primary Reserves, there will always be those citizen soldiers who join for the benefits. That is plain and simple. Yes we would like to see more dedication and commitment from them, but in the case of Primary Reserves, it is not possible. Why? Because Reservists do NOT sign contracts. Other then the 1 night a week one weekend a month initial commitment, there is nothing else you can expect from some of these individuals.

Most Reservists do volunteer overseas, or operations. However, remember 1 thing, the Primary Reserve is a PART-TIME job. Read that again, PART-TIME job. If you want commitment, give the willing ones all Class B contracts and then work with those who are 'dedicated'. If you do that, I guarantee you that most units would downsize at a drastic rate. Please, think before making generalized comments. There are more things involved then simply 'commitment'.

guys in my regiment are pretty determined to fulfill the expectations of the Canadian Forces in a manner befitting a  true Canadian solder.

Okay, what defines one as a TRUE Canadian soldier? Please think about that. I'm sure there are members of your Regiment who've never participated in an Operation, or have heard a shot fired in anger. Are they less then true Canadian soldiers?

 

[IN HOC SIGNO]

I must say that my original post was purely directed at Reg Force. I know many committed Reservists but you are quite right that they do not owe the same kind of committment that one who signs a Reg Force contract owe.

 

[medaid]

IN HOC, my comments weren't directed at you  I merely wanted to generate more critical analysis on these points.

Currently PRes retention, and commitment is a serious issue at my unit, and in my branch of service in some parts of the country. It is sad to see that some units are greatly reduced in strength, due to a variety of reasons. However, it always seem to come back to commitment, and the higher ups like to cite THAT as the main problem, and not willing to look at other things that may be direct causes to these commitment issues.

 

[Greymatters]

"what defines one as a TRUE Canadian soldier"

Good question: the definition is not the same for every one. 

 

[medaid]

"what defines one as a TRUE Canadian soldier"

Good question: the definition is not the same for every one. 

and THAT is exactly my point. It is rather too broad and too general and could potentially infuriate some members.

 

[Vash13]

of course there are personal reasons.  If there wasn't ANY personal reason nobody would join... There is a difference between a personal reason and a selfish reason.