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Committment Needed

IN HOC SIGNO

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Saw a great commercial for Marine Corps recruiting today while I was watching NBC coverage of the Buffalo and Ottawa hockey game. the commercial focussed on those things that make the Marine Corps an elite group....the silent drill team...the fitness...the espirit de corps.....then the slogan at the end ...."the Marine Corps...we're not taking applications...we're looking for commitments."
wow....exactly...this is what we should be looking for too in the CF. This is not a job...this is a lifestyle...and if you're joining so you can learn to fly and then go make bucks with Air Canada (lots of pilots on my basic used to say this) or get a trade so you can go to Alberta and make big bucks then you're joining for the wrong reasons. I have always felt that we sell ourselves short in the CF. The RCMP has a waiting list of people lining up to join because they have maintained that they are special....not like any other job or police force....similar to the message that the Marine Corps is putting out.
this is what we should be doing in the CF. Make it an organization that people want to join because of it's uniqueness not for what people can get from the system to enable them to go on to something else.  :cdn:
 
Precisely why I started the process even though I'm going on 50+ Padre. (slow learner  ;))
Good point! 
 
yea but if every one becomes soldiers and there like a million canadian soldiers and there only soldiers and they have no trades or no other specialties what happens when war stops? basically these soldiers get fucked over and thrown in the garbage. and the the depression happens all over again :) :cdn:
 
Son, that temporary timeout I gave you last night is becoming close to a full-time one.....
 
IN HOC SIGNO said:
Saw a great commercial for Marine Corps recruiting today while I was watching NBC coverage of the Buffalo and Ottawa hockey game. the commercial focussed on those things that make the Marine Corps an elite group....the silent drill team...the fitness...the espirit de corps.....then the slogan at the end ...."the Marine Corps...we're not taking applications...we're looking for commitments."
wow....exactly...this is what we should be looking for too in the CF. This is not a job...this is a lifestyle...and if you're joining so you can learn to fly and then go make bucks with Air Canada (lots of pilots on my basic used to say this) or get a trade so you can go to Alberta and make big bucks then you're joining for the wrong reasons. I have always felt that we sell ourselves short in the CF. The RCMP has a waiting list of people lining up to join because they have maintained that they are special....not like any other job or police force....similar to the message that the Marine Corps is putting out.
this is what we should be doing in the CF. Make it an organization that people want to join because of it's uniqueness not for what people can get from the system to enable them to go on to something else.  :cdn:

Excellent point man... This is exactly what I have always thought about the CF.  When I put in my application, it wasn't because I wanted to get paid, or wanted to use the forces for my own reasons.  In fact I had completely forgotten that I would get paid in the reserves.  I didn't know anything about benefits or incentives or anything like that.  I applied because I wanted to be part of something bigger.  A way of life.  A brotherhood or family.  I still have no idea how much I will be paid.  And I don't even care.  I am ready to commit 110%.  :cdn: :salute:
 
conqueror said:
yea but if every one becomes soldiers and there like a million canadian soldiers and there only soldiers and they have no trades or no other specialties what happens when war stops? basically these soldiers get fucked over and thrown in the garbage. and the the depression happens all over again :) :cdn:

:rofl:

.......This is your brain on drugs......
 
Always care about what and when you are going to be paid. That said, it's not necessarily the main motivation. (otherwise, I would not have served in Viet Nam for $265.00/month with $65.00 of that being combat pay, and the rest was, luckily, tax free)
 
For sure.  It's not like I completely don't ever care if a cheque comes or not.  Obviously hard work done deserves compensation (a 'job' *laugh*) but it wasn't even a factor in my deciding to enlist.  That being said, I will most certainly expect a cheque every pay cycle ;)  If I didn't care at all about pay etc. then I wouldn't be going through all this bloody trouble to try and track down my cadet file.  (oops, used a taboo word :p)
 
I just saw that commercial the other night actually, and it was impressive----far more so than some of the other cheesy Marine Corps recruiting commercial they've had in the past.  I think its message is fundimentally universal for all branches of the military in any country really.  Military service should never be viewed as a job.  It shouldn't even be viewed as a career really.  As someone else already said, it's a lifestyle choice you're making when you enlist, less of an employment opportunity.  Of course, you should always be compensated for your efforts.
 
IN HOC SIGNO said:
and if you're joining so you can learn to fly and then go make bucks with Air Canada (lots of pilots on my basic used to say this)

Well, you will certainly be happy to learn that in the new OD program on Pilot Training put the emphasis on the fact that this is not the Air Canada Training Program.  We are warrior, whatever we fly.  In my opinion (from what I see), there are less and less people in for the ACTP.  There is, however an other problem.  Some people "don't want to go to war and kill people" so they only want to fly domestic SAR.  I guess this mentality was possible in the 80-90, but in the future (even now), I wouldn't be surprise to see every type deployed (including SAR).

Max

 
It's funny you mention people not wanting to go to war SupersonicMax.  Many of my civilian friends who I talk to about being in the military say the same thing "Oh, I'm thinking of joining, but I don't want to go to war."

My answer to them is invariably "Then don't enlist."

I honestly don't understand what compels people to wanting to join the forces if they don't want to go to war.  Not to suggest anyone wants to go to war, but I think people that do join should understand that it's a real possibility and if there is any doubt whatsoever about going to war, they should just stay out.
 
What compels people? Many reasons, some noble, others crap.

I can look through dozens of Res F units, and find people who only want that education subsidy of $2K per year, plus whatever they make on Class A.

I've had troops that were doing great on QL2 (now BMQ) until it came time to fire the rifle, then they jumped up and down about their objection to 'guns', and how they didn't think Medics would have to use them. Well, how the hell are ya going to protect that wounded soldier? With your good intentions and a Red Cross?

I've also had soldiers who joined to serve Canada, learn a trade, sometimes to turn their lives around become something.

You can tell, within a few minutes of meeting a new recruit, exactly why they joined.
 
Naval Reserve completed a survey of their sailors and found nearly 95% released within the first 5 years after enrollment. This is on par with finishing high school and completing an undergraduate degree. If there is to be more of a commitment encouraged, there would probably need to be a shift in recruitment and retention.
 
The Canadian Forces commercial, the one with the very dramatic colour-tone and the low-key "thumping", is an inspirational commercial as well. I've never seen the U.S. Marine Corps. commercial, and I probably don't want to see it. The CF recruiting commercial is basically asking for the same thing, minus the words. The flood aid in that commercial was cf personnell. In afghanistan, cf personnell. On the high seas, rescuing civilians, the cf personnell. All of those clips on that commercial are not "asking" people to join because of a job, or because of decent pay, or even because of the extra windows that open when you leave; it's basically asking people to commit their lives not only for the defence of the country, but also for the defence of other people's lives when they're threatened by natural things like floods, famine, etc.

You can't simply join the canadian forces for just one reason as well. There's usually many different reasons as to why one wishes to join. Commitment is obviously one as well because you spend a lot of time in the forces.

Now, there is also nothing wrong with having a pay check your most valuable motivation for joining the forces. It may not reflect the ethic of your work done, and it may reflect it.

Regardless, I'd have to say the guys in my regiment are pretty determined to fulfill the expectations of the Canadian Forces in a manner befitting a true Canadian solder. and that's just in my regiment. there's thousands out there probably just like them.

 
When I joined in the late 70's most people joined for economic reasons, but most stayed on and made a career out of it, very few released after their first hitch. Also back then a university degree wasn't as sought after as it is today, seems today we have young people joining just for the post graduate education funding, once its completed, they leave. The CF is starting to reflect the civilian job market, young people don't stay in one job for very long anymore, their always looking for greener pastures somewhere else. Sometimes they find it and sometimes they don't.

The pay and benefits in the CF are very attractive, compared to the civilian sector were making good money often means having somekind of specialty training or a university degree and even then, doesn't always guarantee good wages.

Also with the uncertainty of the civilian market, you are always fearful of downsizing, layoffs, closures.
In the CF, your wage is guaranteed no matter what.

I'll be the first one to admit the military is not for everyone and for the ones who have the staying power good for you, we need more just like you.

And yes of course there is serving your country, pride in what you do and accomplish, and belonging to something bigger than yourself.

If I hadn't of got hurt, I would be still in and I don't regret one day of my service, I enjoyed every day, good and bad.

For me the most memorable experience was the wonderful people who I served with and the people I met along the way, great, wonderful  bunch every one of them.

Pro Patria.
 
Having said that, and after reading all that, I have nothing against people that come to the end of their contract and will release and take a better opportunity (whatever it might be for... Pay, Family, Quality of Life, Etc...)  As long as they respect their contract.

Max
 
As society changes, so does the general flavour of commitment.  It's probably a fair statement that society today is used to more change and so one shouldn't necessarily assume someone would decide to dedicate an entire life/career to something, especially when they are still sorting things out for themselves as they continue to mature.

I too, have absolutely nothing bad to say about folks who serve the time of their contract and decide to leave the military and do other things.  That's entirely their right and they should be thanked for their service to Country, no matter how short their contract.

p.s. We could also do with a few commercials with a bit more energy, maybe some 30sec/60sec versions of one like this (made with released vid clips from DND).

G2G
 
I think Dr Franklin Pinch summed up quite nicely the need of the CF to continue to have room to be flexible:

Human resources specialists may disagree about whether the nature of military work calls for long-term commitment. But since the Cold War, the needs of the armed forces have fluctuated more, says Dr. Franklin Pinch, a human resources consultant and an adjunct professor at the Royal Military College in Kingston.

"You basically would like to have what the military calls a 'surge requirement,' " says Pinch, or to be able to get a lot of people when the need arises. "The military does need long-term members, and they also need short-term members." http://www.carleton.ca/jmc/cnews/19012001/n6.htm
 
I agree with a lot that has been said. In my original post I didn't mean that short term contract people were less important or not desired. Committment is committment for however long you have signed up. I'm glad to hear that the Air Force is adapting a warrior attitude again...it is needed.
When I joined on my initial 9 year (SSE) I saw it as an oportunity to try the lifestyle and see if it fit me. After finding that it did I took a further commitment (IE then an IPS).

I just get tired of hearing in the Reg Force of folks who use the system for their own purposes but never put out when it's time to make a sacrifice or show commitment by giving back. We are well compensated in most of our trades and the reason is because we have signed a contract which states that we are available to do tough things that our civilian equivalents don't have to do...like maybe give up our lives should the need arise. We should not soft sell this aspect of our service when we advertise. It is what makes us different. If you make your organization attractive by saying that you give a trade or a degree or whatever but downplay the aspect of sacrifice and service then you are starting people on the wrong foot by giving them the impression that this is a "make work or glorified welfare organization."

I can't tell you how many folks I get in my office who have an overblown "sense of entitlement" simply because they belong to the organization...yet don't have the same "sense of responsibility" when it comes to performance of their duty. As a Padre I don't mince my words when I get whingers sitting in the chair, I gotta tell you.
I have all kinds of compassion for those in need but not those who are "players."
 
IN HOC, that's a valid point about folks and entitlement...it's not a new phenomenon either.  I f think we'll find that with the reality of CF operations today, very few new members of the CF would be surprised about having to deploy.  Somewhere between the pullout of CFE and the Balkans (or thereabout) it was still relatively easy not to be one of the few hundred folks not supporting operations (i.e. happy to draw a paycheck but anywhere from not thrilled to actively avoiding anything beyond a 9-to-5'er in the CF.)  I would fully support your distaste for mincing words...treat people straight up and they generally get on with things they'd otherwise try and find an excuse to not deal with...

G2G
 
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