Command Badges

[McG]

I said I didn't need a Maritime Command Badge to show I was in the Navy when I was wearing a Navy uniform.

Really?  Even wandering around through Halifax there is a possibility that you in your Navy uniform do not belong to MARCOM.  There are CMP positions out there.  There are possibly CANADACOM & CANOSCOM positions out there.  If everyone wanders around without Command Pins, then I cannot know by uniform colour who they report to.

I'm in an army brigade, which is part of ..... uh... should be a division but we'll let that one slide. In any case, I know I'm in the army, everyone else knows I'm in the army (the kilt is a dead give away, I know, but humour me here). Why do I need a cheesy little enamel pocket badge to confirm that fact?

No, your kilt does not tell people that your CoC eventually reports up to the CLS.  The Command pin does tell people that.  You Brigade patch would imply that, but not everyone within Land Forces Command gets a brigade patch.

Your kilt tells people that you are from the land environment, but that does not necessary mean you are in Land Forces Command.  You could, on a Class B contract, report to CMP or ADM(Mat) or ADM(IE); you could even be employed in MARCOM.  The Command pin tells people which L1 you belong to.  The colour of your uniform does not.

 

[Haggis]

Your kilt tells people that you are from the land environment, but that does not necessary mean you are in Land Forces Command.  You could, on a Class B contract, report to CMP or ADM(Mat) or ADM(IE); you could even be employed in MARCOM.  The Command pin tells people which L1 you belong to.  The colour of your uniform does not.

I wear a kilt and work at VCDS which doesn't even have a command badge.

 

[Journeyman]

Your kilt tells people that you are from the land environment.....

In daftandbarny's particular case, it could be just as easily linked to his predilection for dressing as a Catholic school girl.... 
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[end thread hijack  ;D ]

 

[Fishbone Jones]

When I am posted back to a ship do I need to wear a badge on my Navy uniform to tell you I am in the Navy? No!

Especially with the lack of supervision onboard! You'd probably put your eye out with the sharp pointy edges. ;D

 

[FDO]

Really?  Even wandering around through Halifax there is a possibility that you in your Navy uniform do not belong to MARCOM.  There are CMP positions out there.  There are possibly CANADACOM & CANOSCOM positions out there.  If everyone wanders around without Command Pins, then I cannot know by uniform colour who they report to.

Now we are starting go around again. Of course if I was not part of CMS I would wear the Command Badge of the command I am currently serving under. And like I said I do. I currently wear CMP. Again if you read carefully you would see that I said when I was wearing my Navy uniform it would be a no brainer what Command I belonged to. Besides why is it so important knowing who I report to? If you ask me who I work for I'll tell you. Think of it as a way to start conversations and make new friends!

 

[McG]

... if you read carefully you would see that I said when I was wearing my Navy uniform it would be a no brainer what Command I belonged to.

It is not a "no brainer."  The absence of a Command pin does not tell me who you work for.  You wear your navy uniform your whole career regardless of where you are working.  With no Command pin, you might be in MARCOM, but you might also be visiting from the VCDS shop or a recruiting centre guy without the CMP badge (because the SM didn't renew the contract in time to keep the supply system stocked).

Besides why is it so important knowing who I report to?

I have objected to the statement that the Command pins do not have a purpose (because they do have a purpose).  I haven't said that the purpose was important.

I have also objected the the position that an individual's uniform colour indicates which Command they belong to (because uniform colour alone does not convey this information).  Once again, this is not a statement that it is important for the uniform o communicate this information.

Is it important?  From an army perspective, being able to look at a soldier and identify where he reports can assist with command & control or preventing guys getting lost in crowds (because there are a lot of us all wandering about without the nice boundaries of a ship's hull to keep us together & avoid intermingling).  Of course, this was probably more important historically .... but then, the other two ECSs also seem to think that showing CoC is important (they do it even more prominently and on operational clothing too).  Consider the great big squadron patches worn on aircrew suits, or the giant yellow ship's name printed on the NCD ball cap. 

Maybe a command pin is not "important."  It does serve a purpose that no other item of uniform fills (it shows who you report to when all dressed-up on Remembrance Day), and across the military we seem to have determined it is important to show-off the hierarchy that we report to.

 

[kratz]

I have been considering this since the discussion between elements began, and MCG's statement has opened the door to my thoughts. His post almost made my point, based on order of dress, DEU compared to Operational Dress, the Navy and Air Force is more worried on how to ID who reports to where these days. You mentioned the ball caps, or the ship's crest on the NCDs. Those change faster on on crew members than many soldier's DEU Command Badge.

We are talking about Identifying pers and a formal dress uniform. WRT the Air or Naval elements, they are tending to show a unified front. Sending a, "we are one" message. Under operations, we work and report as displayed.

This is a cross-culteral differance, not a life of death problem within the CF.

 

[aesop081]

I'm sorry but thats a weak argument. For the limited number of times in a year where i wear my DEUs, the need to identify what command i report to is a non-issue.

 

[kratz]

I'm sorry but thats a weak argument. For the limited number of times in a year where i wear my DEUs, the need to identify what command i report to is a non-issue.

In my post above I just said the same thing. The Air and Navy do not need to identify on their DEU. Where we want to be found, is in operational clothing. We also were that most often.

If the Navy or Air is in a position to be ID'd, it's for beau's or bow tie's. Or we are lost/dead and need help being ID'd. Under OPs, that is where things like ID means more to me. Yes, there are other methods/policies but a dress uniform? Forget it. It's bragging rights for someone higher up.

 

[daftandbarmy]

In daftandbarny's particular case, it could be just as easily linked to his predilection for dressing as a Catholic school girl.... 
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[end thread hijack  ;D ]

Hey, who left the closet door open again?!!?

 

[Greymatters]

Hey, who left the closet door open again?!!?

I didnt even know your office had closets - now Im afraid to check! 


Back on topic - The command badge was an important item during the WW2 days when you had large numbers of troops and it was important to know who they belonged to.  Doesn't the fact that fewer and fewer CF members wear a command badge demonstrate that they arent considered as important as they used to be?  Especially in today's pro-opsec environment, where we are now minimizing the amount of unit identification on our uniforms?

 

[McG]

I'm sorry but thats a weak argument. For the limited number of times in a year where i wear my DEUs, the need to identify what command i report to is a non-issue.

It might be about as important an issue as identifying what element you are.  We should all just happily jump back into one common CF green dress uniform regardless of army, air or sea.
:worms:

 

[Cleared Hot]

Holy Smokes! How hard is it to put three little pins through your breast pocket because someone told you to.  I didn't even think it was a molehill let alone a mountain.  Man, you want people to take pride in something I say birthday suits all around!  Maybe that will address appearance issues of real importance like physical fitness!  Wearing medals is a bitch though.

Wow.  :

 

[Pusser]

I seem to recall that the Rhino Party once advocated burlap bags for the Army uniform, blue Speedos for the Navy and yellow zoot suits for the Air Force.  Sometimes, I think there was merit in that.

When I joined the Navy we wore green and drove steamers!  In the days of green, we wore command badges to identify our elements.  When we switched to DEU, we still wore them for quite awhile as I recall (I have pictures).  The question of why we wore them with what was now easily identifiable as a naval uniform was often a topic of discussion.  One of the reasons given was that NDHQ personnel had never worn command badges to that point and that we on the coast needed to wear them so we could tell the MARCOM folks from the NDHQ folks.  At that point we replied that if the NDHQ folks were that set on it, perhaps they should start wearing them!  It took awhile for some of the NDHQ groups, but that's eventually what happened. 

I still have my old MARCOM shield.  Someday I'll get around to putting it in a shadow box for posterity.

 

[Pusser]

I forgot to mention that the biggest thing we disliked about wearing a command badge on DEU was that there is no pocket to line it up with on a naval uniform.  Getting it at the right height, straight and centred is a right royal pain, requiring much trial and error.  When i finally get it right on a new tunic, i put tiny white stitches where the pins go so I can re-attach the badge after dry-cleaning without too much difficulty.  Works great, until some well-meaning dry cleaner removes the stitches...

 

[Rheostatic]

Okay... so the command badge with the lion on it? Which one is that?

It's actually a winged sea lion (sea-lion Or winged), used in heraldry to signify service in all three elements. The torch symbolizes leadership or education, and can be found in the arms of all CF schools.