Cenotaph/Memorial Vandalism/Solutions-Laws (merged)

[Jarnhamar]

http://www.torontosun.com/2012/11/12/coronation-park-war-memorial-defaced-canada-will-burn-praise-allah

Much more in depth.

While this may not fall under the 'traditional' hate crime as per our definition I would go so far as to say it is a hate crime against Muslims.

a hate crime is committed to intimidate, harm or terrify not only a person, but an entire group of people to which the victim belongs. The victims are targeted for who they are, not because of anything they have done.

A hate crime is one in which hate is the motive and can involve intimidation, harassment, physical force or threat of physical force against a person, a group or a property

By the vandal singing their work praise Allah they are causing grief and ill feelings towards Canadian-Muslims as an entire group of people, especially considering what was written and when.

 

[Hawk]

On the other hand, I noticed several Muslim women at the ceremony in Halifax, wearing hijab, and poppies.

Hawk

 

[The Bread Guy]

This from the PS for Vets Affairs on the Toronto memorial defacing:

On behalf of the Honourable Steven Blaney, Minister of Veterans Affairs, Eve Adams, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Veterans Affairs and Member of Parliament for Mississauga–Brampton South, today inspected the recently vandalized Victory Peace War Memorial at Coronation Park.

“Our cenotaphs and war memorials are powerful symbols of our national remembrance and must be respected and maintained,” said Minister Blaney. “Disgraceful and disrespectful acts of vandalism like this need to be addressed. That is why our Government is proud to support Bill C-217, which will increase penalties for those convicted of these heinous crimes.”

“Seeing our local war memorials treated with such disrespect is incredibly troubling, especially on such an important day of national remembrance,” said Parliamentary Secretary Adams. “I am pleased to be here today to see that this memorial has been restored to its honoured state.”

Through the Cenotaph/Monument Restoration Program, the Government of Canada partners with community groups and local organizations to ensure that cenotaphs and monuments honouring our nation's heroes are conserved to the highest standard of care and dignity.

Applications to this program can be submitted at any time during the year. Interested non-profit groups and other organizations may be eligible for funding. To learn more about Veterans Affairs Canada’s Cenotaph/Monument Restoration Program and other programs and services, visit veterans.gc.ca.

 

[Danjanou]

On the other hand, I noticed several Muslim women at the ceremony in Halifax, wearing hijab, and poppies.

Hawk

I noticed a couple of female cadets wearing the Hijab at the parade I was at on Sunday. I also spent most of last week poppying in a predominatley South Asian/Muslim part of Toronto ( Malls and Subway stations in East Toronto) and many woman in Hijabs and Bhurqas approached me for poppies for them and/or  their children.  All were respectful  and some newer immigrants did ask the sgnificance of the poppy  and after I explained it they readily contributed  and wore their poppies with pride. On Thursday we had a young man come into the Legion and request a counter box for their Mosque as they felt they should do so as he explained it to be part of the community.

I won't tar or condemn an entire community or religion on the actions of a few asswits.

 

[jollyjacktar]

:goodpost:

I agree.  There's plenty of asswits from the other side of the street too. 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2231660/Free-speech-row-man-ARRESTED-posting-image-burning-Poppy-Facebook-page-Remembrance-Sunday.html

and the douche that Macy posted about pulling flags and given the finger to the camera.

I'm pleased to hear, however, the support you came across from the Islamic community, Danjanou.

 

[JorgSlice]

Well; the latest news out of Toronto is that they ARE treating it as a "Hate Crime".


Short sound bite on the radio this morning mentioned that there were protesters at the the Remembrance Day Ceremonies in Toronto who were stopped by people attending the ceremony.  It was mentioned that these protesters were women who were Afghan immigrants/refugees.  All I can think of, is that this is like biting the hand that feeds you and WTF is going through your minds?

With all due respect, would it be so hard for the government or even a third-party rally some funds together and erect a memorial something along the lines of "In memory of the innocent Afghans that met an untimely death during ... etc. in the crossfire, and the hand of the Taliban etc. ... vision of a stronger, safer, renewed future for Afghanistan."?

Not only did they get caught in the crossfire (or munitions drop error), but the Taliban slaughtered plenty of them. We've got dedications to the people of France, Holland, wouldn't be surprised if there was one of the Bosnians... why not for the Afghans? It would put MANY people at ease (especially at the peak of hate towards the "HarpoCon Police State Dictatorship"  : )

HOWEVER, it is downright disrespectful what they did. Any other day, would have been fine, but Remembrance Day... WOW

 

[ModlrMike]

It wouldn't matter. The people who desecrate cenotaphs are likely convinced that the majority of Afghan deaths were caused by NATO. Contrary evidence notwithstanding.

 

[hagan_91]

HOWEVER, it is downright disrespectful what they did. Any other day, would have been fine, but Remembrance Day... WOW


How can you say on any other day it would be fine? Its never OK to vandalize a memorial. Period. There should be no room for people like this here. Way to many snakes getting through the cracks of our open door policy.  :facepalm:

 

[Edward Campbell]

Actually, it's most appropriate on Remembrance Day. Maybe in addition to remembering those who died we might also spare a thought for why they went to war in the first place.

I'm not talking about the individual motives - which are as many and as varied as the the nearly two million men and women who have gone to wars on Canada's behalf; rather I'm talking about our national motives. We knew, before September 1939, what kind of man Adolph Hitler was and what kind of world he wanted:

A newspaper front page from 1938

We also knew, before 9/11 2001, what the Taliban were and what kind of world they want:

A picture the New York Times published in 2000

The people who object to our participation is wars, in general, or in a specific war are "free" to do so because we decided to send our Navy, Army and Air Force into battle, again and again, to give them the "right" to voice their objections. That they did so on Remembrance Day makes their "free expression" even more worthy of our protection because so many will attack them reflexively.

 

[The Bread Guy]

A recent act of vandalism that saw graffiti scribbled across the top of the war cenotaph located outside the Alliston Legion is the ultimate show of disrespect, says Alliston Second World War veteran Jack Tiernay.
“It’s an insult to those who lost a son, and those families who are still
existing in Alliston and area today,” said Tiernay, a former navy man.

Nottawasaga OPP are looking into the act of vandalism at the legion located on Dufferin Street South. Someone spray painted ‘Jesus Rules’ across the top of the memorial last week sometime Wednesday night or early Thursday morning.

Legion branch manager Jennifer Fortin called police to investigate after she noticed the damage Thursday morning around 11 a.m.

“It’s absolutely abhorrent behaviour,” she said.

“All graffiti is bad, but to do it on a cenotaph?” she added.

The memorial lists the local men who died serving in the First and Second World War and also honours sacrifices made during the Korean War and peacekeeping missions.

Fortin said she’s been speaking with the Town of New Tecumseth for advice on how to best remove the markings, however her main concern is how to clean the paint off without causing further harm to the memorial’s delicate stone surface.

“We want to be very careful in removing it not to cause damage….we might have to sandblast it,” she said.

Fortin isn’t sure how much it will cost to remove the paint, though she’s fairly certain it won’t be cheap.

“The cost for us in terms of money right now, we’d prefer not to spend money on that sort of thing,” she said.

The reaction from local war veterans, legion members and current military members over the vandalism has been nothing short of shock and disgust.

“They couldn’t believe it, they were gob smacked,” she said, referring to Second World War veterans.

“We also had some Base Borden members here at the legion last week for lunch and they couldn’t believe it either.”

Shortly after this story was published, a spokesperson for Veterans Affairs Canada Minister Steven Blaney reached out to The Herald to condemn the act, but to also offer assistance from the ministry.

“These blatant and disrespectful acts of vandalism cannot be condoned under any circumstances.," said press secretary Jean-Christophe de le Rue. "We encourage any organization to contact Veterans Affairs Canada who may be able to help restore the monument to its rightful condition through the Cenotaph and Monument Restoration Program Program." ....

simcoe.com, 12 Feb 13

 

[57Chevy]

Fortin said she’s been speaking with the Town of New Tecumseth for advice on how to best remove the markings, however her main concern is how to clean the paint off without causing further harm to the memorial’s delicate stone surface.

“We want to be very careful in removing it not to cause damage….we might have to sandblast it,” she said.

A couple of links shared with provisions of The Copyright Act concerning
information on grafitti removal.
Remember, the sooner that grafitti is removed from some surfaces the better the results.

from Grafitti Hurts
Graffiti Removal and Restoration

and from
Technical Preservation Services of the National Park Service (US)   
Removing Graffiti from Historic Masonry
by Martin E. Weaver

 

[The Bread Guy]

This time, in Toronto ....

A mural in downtown Toronto honouring Canadian soldiers killed overseas has been defaced.

The Highway of Heroes mural is located at the end of the route taken by repatriated soldiers, in a back alley at a coroner's office near College and Yonge Streets. It marks the final stop for the hearses carrying the remains of Canada’s fallen soldiers.

More than 150 families have pulled into the alley next to the mural after their loved ones were killed overseas.

Using black and white paint, vandals spray-painted over the mural that once featured an image of an outstretched dove and a field of poppies.

Chris Ecklund, of Canadian Heroes, said the vandalism was an “act of treason.”

“This is one of the most important murals in Canada, and for somebody to come along and destroy this, it’s hard to understand,” he said ....

CTV.ca, 8 Sept 13

 

[Edward Campbell]

For those, and there are still some, for whom memorials like these are their only contact with a dead husband, father, or son, who may have no known grave, these acts of vandalism are, indeed, painful, but people like Chris Ecklund, of Canadian Heroes who describe simple, mindless vandalism as an "act of treason" are not "helping" at all.

This vandalism, like urinating on the National War Memorial, is a symptom of some social ills, mostly unrelated to the object being vandalized. Sometimes, but not as often as we think, this vandalism is tied, loosely, to anti-war or anti-military movements, but my - limited to be sure - experiences with people in those movements is that they, generally, tend to be as sad at the loss of soldiers as is anyone else. It is not the soldiers who fight that they see as the enemy, it is the politicians who send soldiers into battle. But, mostly, the vandalism is a sign of disaffected, disconnected youth - the target is anything that doesn't "belong" to them - and that means almost everything because that level of disaffection is, normally, closely related to poverty and socially/culturally "weak" communities.

So, Mr Ecklund, et al, please lay off the hyperbole. This is a minor incident of urban vandalism, nothing more.

 

[pbi]

This vandalism, like urinating on the National War Memorial, is a symptom of some social ills, mostly unrelated to the object being vandalized. ... But, mostly, the vandalism is a sign of disaffected, disconnected youth - the target is anything that doesn't "belong" to them - and that means almost everything because that level of disaffection is, normally, closely related to poverty and socially/culturally "weak" communities.

So, Mr Ecklund, et al, please lay off the hyperbole. This is a minor incident of urban vandalism, nothing more.

I would add that beyond the usual gang of  mouth-breathers and "f***ck everything" crowd who do most of this sort of stupidity (including vandalizing civilian cemeteries), there is a small but very active crew of committed types (anarchists, Black Bloc, etc) who do it out of conviction. A few years ago we had a few in Kingston who thought it was OK to go around tearing off or defacing "Support the Troops" stickers on cars. They represent the absolute worst that the Left has to offer.

 

[George Wallace]

Yes this is an insult to the memory of those who have served; but it is also just as big, if not bigger, an insult to the group of artists who gave up their time to do the original mural that has been defaced.

An interesting thing to note is the stupidity of the vandals.  They tagged their vandalism and can be identified by those tags.  It is only a matter of time before they are brought to justice, however much justice may be dealt to them.

 

[OldSolduer]

Yes this is an insult to the memory of those who have served; but it is also just as big, if not bigger, an insult to the group of artists who gave up their time to do the original mural that has been defaced.

An interesting thing to note is the stupidity of the vandals.  They tagged their vandalism and can be identified by those tags.  It is only a matter of time before they are brought to justice, however much justice may be dealt to them.

Justice? A slap on the wrist accompanied by some community service.....maybe.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Justice? A slap on the wrist accompanied by some community service.....maybe.

Poor misunderstood youth. We need to build them another basketball court. :

 

[myself.only]

Well clearly we need to open a dialogue with these "poor misunderstood" vandals..... 

...so how about they sit down face-to-face with each of the families who lost someone in Afghanistan so they can apologize to them personally, one family at a time.

 

[The Bread Guy]

An interesting thing to note is the stupidity of the vandals.  They tagged their vandalism and can be identified by those tags.  It is only a matter of time before they are brought to justice, however much justice may be dealt to them.

Kharma can suck, can't it?

....  they, generally, tend to be as sad at the loss of soldiers as is anyone else. It is not the soldiers who fight that they see as the enemy, it is the politicians who send soldiers into battle ....

I  can't agree with the yellow, based on my limited experience - the true ideologues (admittedly small in number) consider the dead "pawns of empire" or whatever crap buzzword is in season.  If they really see the politicians as the bad guys in the equation, they know where to protest to highlight the politicians' role in all this.  They didn't see the difference here, for example.

.... So, Mr Ecklund, et al, please lay off the hyperbole ....

Agreed - I'm just as pi**ed as most here at this, but "treason" isn't the first term coming to my mind.

 

[mariomike]

"The Highway of Heroes mural is located at the end of the route taken by repatriated soldiers, in a back alley at a coroner's office near College and Yonge Streets. It marks the final stop for the hearses carrying the remains of Canada’s fallen soldiers."

A note regarding the Coroner's Building located at 26 Grenville St. in downtown Toronto.

It is now closed.

In late September it was replaced by the new Ontario Forensic Sciences and Coroner's Complex at 25 Morton Shulman Avenue in the Highway 401 and Keele St. area of Toronto.