CANFORGEN on proper wear of new Bush Cap

[Bartok5]

Show me an $18 CAD Tilley Hat, and I'll buy it.  That is the current replacement cost of the Wide-Brim Combat Hat (WBCH).  For those of us who paid $83 for a replacement WBCH a couple of years ago, apparently that was just a stock-keeping "glitch".  Get over it, and move on...... 

 

[Spr.Earl]

Show me an $18 CAD Tilley Hat, and I'll buy it.   That is the current replacement cost of the Wide-Brim Combat Hat (WBCH).   For those of us who paid $83 for a replacement WBCH a couple of years ago, apparently that was just a stock-keeping "glitch".   Get over it, and move on......  

Thank you !
Its a good hat and I have used the back flap to protect the back of my neck in the sun.
I also made sure my hat was 1/8 th. larger when it came to hot weather!!

Over come and adapt and shut the F' up!!

There again who are complaing?

 

[BDTyre]

I wasn't aware the replacement price on the CADPAT hats had dropped...that puts things in a different light!

I've not got the WBCH (not actually in the CF yet), but I do have similar hats, and I've got friends who have been issued their WBCH, and I've heard no complaints.

I just think its silly that they need to issue an order on how to wear a hat.

 

[Fraser.g]

It's too fit the back of you head so it stays on!!
Wait till I tell Demo!!

That would be Sam Brown not Sammy D although the picture of Demo with his bush cap strap firmly strapped under his chin in a wind storm is somewhat humorous.

I agree that the strap should be in the back and that is how I wear it because it just makes sense but I was playing devils advocate with my comment.

In any group, when given the option of doing it incorrectly, you will find those whose imagination far outweighs common sense and logic.

GF

 

[pegged]

"Your headlights are on..."

 

[Scoobie Newbie]

when the wind blows from the front I wear it as a chin strap.
From the rear I wear it at the base of my skull

 

[childs56]

I use to wear mine folded up at the front when i wasnt wearing my helmet. It kept getting in the way of looking through the sight on the old howitzer, also when I fired the c9 I wore it with the brim up, also when I fired my rifle with the brim up. when the wind blew the brim moved up on its own. any ways some like it worn aussie style, some like it flat, some iron the brims so the look nice in the field, others have put a coat hanger in the brim to hold it straight, some fold it up in the front and back what ever your method we must make sure that this is for the field only and not in garrison, how you dress in the field taking in consideration operational requirements should be up to the comfort of the individual. COMFORT is paramount when engaged in operations. no desk jocky should ever tell a field soldier how to wear field kit no matter what.

 

[Scoobie Newbie]

Well how about the RSM who tells members of Recce platoon to get new hats after they cut them because they were too wide?

 

[excoelis]

"Some men you just can't reach"   :

Let me put it to you this way:

I'm (edit).   Do you think I will get to do that if I 'fall on my sword' over an issue like the modification of bush hats?   The troops have to realise the same thing.   If they walk around flaunting the dress regs then they are drawing attention to themselves(and their unit) unnecessarily.   Not quite in line with the stealth, cunning, and mental agility you would expect from a Recce ptlmn is it?   Or any 'Quiet Professional' for that matter.

Treat it like a Pathfinder immediate action drill.   If you have a chance contact your priority is to break contact as quickly and efficiently as possible, regroup, and push on with your mission.   You can't afford to attrit your force when every man is crucial to the success of the higher mission.   So, in the case of my example, as much as you would like to kick ass, it is not the aim of the patrol.   The aim of your small force is to set up the means of insertion necessary to bring in a much larger force as safely and efficiently as possible.   This follow-on force can then make a much larger impact by virtue of their numbers and eqpt.

IMO, If you wish to operate in the field with some leeway and credibility then display a high level of decorum in garrison, when in the public eye, or when under scrutiny.   'Fight the good fight', if you will.   If there are members in your chain of command that you feel judge your competency by how 'proper' you look in garrison then play the Heartbreak Ridge game, and think of it in the same humurous light as you did when you first saw all of Gunny Highway's troops out there on PT with a handful of different coloured shirts.

If you can't survive the challenges that are inherent to dress and deportment issues, and operate with some flexibility in these matters, then you are in for a long and frustrating career.   Try to treat it like a field problem.   You don't complain about changing your scrim and camouflage to adapt to the changing environment in the field, do you????    

 

[G .Dundas]

Could you post some relevant quotes for those of us without access to these documents?   Sounds interesting.

 
   It's been a while since I seen the document .I think it might be found either the Army's lessons learned or by doing a google search.Wish I could be of more help.
The only reason   I remember the documents was the utter absurdity of what I perceived to be NDHQ 's responce to a valid   action by troops to wartime realties.

 

[Acorn]

IMO, If you wish to operate in the field with some leeway and credibility then display a high level of decorum in garrison, when in the public eye, or when under scrutiny.   'Fight the good fight', if you will.   If there are members in your chain of command that you feel judge your competency by how 'proper' you look in garrison then play the Heartbreak Ridge game, and think of it in the same humurous light as you did when you first saw all of Gunny Highway's troops out there on PT with a handful of different coloured shirts.

If you can't survive the challenges that are inherent to dress and deportment issues, and operate with some flexibility in these matters, then you are in for a long and frustrating career.   Try to treat it like a field problem.   You don't complain about changing your scrim and camouflage to adapt to the changing environment in the field, do you????    

The oft-misused quote: "no parade-ready troops are ever ready for combat and no combat-ready troops ready for parade" is all too often used as an excuse for sloppy dress and deportment in garrison. The fact is that good field soldiers have the discipline to be good garrison soldiers - if you can put up with the BS of bad weather, infrequent rest, spotty feeding and having some bugger periodically shoot at you, you can certainly put up with someone telling you how to wear your hat.

And, as someone implied, if you want to cut off the brim, at least get yourself a second one for garrison wear. Hell, I remember getting a second razor for my TQ3 infantry so I'd always have a clean one for the DS to throw across the room.

Yeesh, will people be complaining about blackened boots next?

Acorn

 

[NMPeters]

I can't seem to find a CANFORGEN or CANLANDGEN pertaining to this. Not from 2004 anyway. If you can give me an approximate time frame when it was issued, I can look it up and copy and paste it on here for you. Cheers!

 

[Bzzliteyr]

Yeah.. I was noticing that as I browsed here at work..odd..no CANFORGEN to speak of.. could this be a RUMOURGEN message?

 

[ModlrMike]

Yeah.. I was noticing that as I browsed here at work..odd..no CANFORGEN to speak of.. could this be a RUMOURGEN message?

I remember seeing a message in 2003 or 2002 regarding wear and care of the Wide Brimmed Combat Hat. I can't remember if it was a CANFORGEN or not. What I do remember is that there was to be no alterations and no forming. Regardless, it is a piece of uniform... and the word uniform means... all the same. If folks are unhappy with the way a piece of kit performs they can put in a UCR (Unsatisfactory Condition Report).

 

[G .Dundas]

Yeah.. I was noticing that as I browsed here at work..odd..no CANFORGEN to speak of.. could this be a RUMOURGEN message?

  Could be but I know I saw something on unauthorised mods to equipment.Just after the release of the 3VP report which spent a great deal of ink of the mods necassary to current issue gear.
As far as I can remember the canforgen was on basicily to do with looking like a cdn soldier and the undesireabilty of using either forgien   or commercial products

 

[Canadian Patriot]

Ever notice when you wear the hat, the brim is always wavy?
When was the last time any of you saw a perfectly horizontal line in nature?
Coincidence? The reason the brim is long and floppy is, get this, TO BREAK UP THE SHAPE OF YOUR HEAD. Thats why you shouldn't lop off the brim, or wear it Aussie style, or put a coat hanger in it. All those things make the brim straighter, which gets you caught, which gets me shot.

Now don't get me wrong, I don't wear it straight out of the box either; I long ago got rid of that neck flap that's tucked in the top...I used it as a hankerchief one cold ex. I keep the drawstring tucked up in the top pouch, because it chaffs the backs of my ears, I only use it at night when moving through the woods because the branches knock it off, and in the wind. I also tuck the top of the hat in the front down to make it ride a little higher. None of this compromises its basic function though.

 

[Michael Dorosh]

  Could be but I know I saw something on unauthorised mods to equipment.Just after the release of the 3VP report which spent a great deal of ink of the mods necassary to current issue gear.

What the hell would 3VP know, they only served on combat operations in a theatre of war.  It's not like they paraded for the Queen or something important.  How dare they!!!!!

Is there a copy of that report floating around cyberspace somewhere, incidentally?  I know Mark C has posted extensively (and to a warm reception, at least among the infantrymen I've talked to) on what his company did in Afghanistan vis a vis weapons and kit, would love to read more, if it is available.

 

[Matt_Fisher]

Ever notice when you wear the hat, the brim is always wavy?
When was the last time any of you saw a perfectly horizontal line in nature?
Coincidence? The reason the brim is long and floppy is, get this, TO BREAK UP THE SHAPE OF YOUR HEAD. Thats why you shouldn't lop off the brim, or wear it Aussie style, or put a coat hanger in it. All those things make the brim straighter, which gets you caught, which gets me shot.

Now don't get me wrong, I don't wear it straight out of the box either; I long ago got rid of that neck flap that's tucked in the top...I used it as a hankerchief one cold ex. I keep the drawstring tucked up in the top pouch, because it chaffs the backs of my ears, I only use it at night when moving through the woods because the branches knock it off, and in the wind. I also tuck the top of the hat in the front down to make it ride a little higher. None of this compromises its basic function though.

:

Sorry to come across as a jerk, but this has to be one of the biggest donkey comments that I've heard in a while.  If you're all bent-up (quite literally here) about avoiding straight lines, maybe you might want to avoid the one that's approximately a metre long:  Your rifle?

First of all, if somebody is so close that they can see that the brim of your hat is wavy as opposed to straight, chances are that they already see you which means that they're already in the process of shooting at you if they intend on doing so.  Unless you're a sniper, on some Long-range Recce. det (ie. pathfinder) or are a sneaky-beaky JTF type, all ghillie suited up and blending in with your environment in a semi-static hide location, your survival in battle is probably more dependent on your ability to use effective fire & maneuveur skills than your camo.

If you find that the big sombrero type brim doesn't obscure your field of vision, then fine.  However I think that something like the bush hat should be available for personal purchase so troops can modify it (to a reasonable extent) so it works effectively for them.  That way the issue ones don't "get destroyed".  

The Marpat boonie caps that we use have huuuuge sombrero flaps on them and the first thing that most of us did was take them down to the tailor shop and get them chopped and resewn so that they wouldn't flop down in front of our eyes.  So far we haven't had anyone freak out on us, especially seeing as how the boonie is only authorized for field use.

 

[NMPeters]

CANLANDGEN 033/02

271310Z SEP 02

SUBJ: INTERIM DRESS POLICY CLOTHE THE SOLDIER (CTS) â “ WIDE
BRIMMED COMBAT HAT (WBCH)

REF: CANLANDGEN ½ 171600Z JAN 02

1. IN PARA 5 OF REF, I PROVIDED DIRECTION FOR THE WEARING
OF THE NEW CTS WBCH. THE FOL REPLACES PARA 5 OF REF IN ITS
ENTIRETY:

5. THE CADPAT WBCH REPLACES THE CURRENT GREEN QUOTE ROBIN
HOOD UNQUOTE STYLE COMBAT HAT NSN 8415-21-114-2995. THE
WBCH PROVIDES CONSIDERABLE IMPROVEMENT IN CAMOUFLAGE AND
CONCEALMENT CAPABILITY AS WELL AS SUN AND PRECIPITATION
PROTECTION INCLUDING AN ADD-ON NECK SCREEN. AS PER
PREVIOUS INSTRUCTIONS REGARDING THE WEAR OF THE QUOTE ROBIN
HOOD UNQUOTE STYLE COMBAT HAT, WHEN IN COMBAT CLOTHING THE
WBCH SHALL BE WORN IN OPERATIONS AND FIELD TRAINING AS THE
HEAD- DRESS OF PREFERENCE OVER ALL OTHER HEAD-DRESS WHERE
SAFETY RELATED IMPACT/BALLISTIC PROTECTIVE HEADWEAR IS NOT
REQUIRED. THE WBCH SHALL NOT BE ALTERED OR MODIFIED. NO,
REPEAT NO UNIT/BRANCH IDENTIFICATION SUCH AS IN THE FORM OF
A HATBADGE WILL BE AFFIXED TO THE WBCH. FOR MAXIMUM
PROTECTION AGAINST THE ELEMENTS, IN THE FIELD, THE WBCH
SHOULD BE WORN WITH THE BRIM DOWN; HOWEVER, SOLDIERS MAY
WEAR THE BRIM UP OR DOWN WITH OR WITHOUT THE RETENTION
STRING SECURED BASED ON THE TACTICAL SITUATION. IN
GARRISON, THE BERET SHALL CONTINUE TO BE WORN WITH THE
DRESS OF THE DAY THAT INCLUDES FIELD COMBAT CLOTHING.
SHOULD THE WBCH BE WORN IN GARRISON IN PREPARATION FOR A
FIELD DEPLOYMENT OR AT THE END OF A FIELD DEPLOYMENT, FOR
STANDARDIZATION AND MAXIMUM PROTECTION AGAINST THE
ELEMENTS, THE HAT SHALL BE WORN WITH THE BRIM DOWN WITH OR
WITHOUT THE RETENTION STRING SECURED UNDER THE CHIN

2. I ASK THAT THIS AMENDMENT MESSAGE BE GIVEN THE WIDEST
DISTRIBUTION WITHIN LFC

SIGNED LGEN MK JEFFERY, CHIEF OF THE LAND

 

[Highland Laddie]

Yeah.. I was noticing that as I browsed here at work..odd..no CANFORGEN to speak of.. could this be a RUMOURGEN message?

I don't have the link, but I do have the CANFORGEN in print version in my office. I'll dig up the hard copy and post the CANFORGEN date / time group and #.

EDIT: looks like someone already beat me to it.