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Canadians seen as Americans in Afghanistan

Matt_Fisher

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Canadians seen as Americans in Afghanistan
http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&call_pageid=971358637177&c=Article&cid=1136328631719
Toronto Star
Jan. 4, 2006. 05:20 AM
CHRIS SANDS
SPECIAL TO THE STAR


KANDAHAR—Abdul Mobin's voice sounded peaceful as he talked about the need for a holy war in Afghanistan.

"In each district of Kandahar, we have 200 religious people. They are very intelligent, they are true Muslims. I know they are true because they also told the Talibs when things were wrong. Now they are also telling us to start the jihad," he said.

Mobin is a polite, soft-spoken Pashtun with a closely cropped beard. Outsiders might describe the 25-year-old as a terrorist sympathizer or an Islamic extremist, but his views are not radical here.

But they are chilling in their implications for the Canadian troops charged with bringing order to the region.

"We can't see any difference between the Americans and the Canadians and the British," Mobin said, noting the Taliban view all members of the NATO military presence as occupiers controlled by the U.S. "If anyone does anything here, we think it's the Americans who did it."

The Taliban movement was born in Kandahar in 1994, when widespread lawlessness gripped Afghanistan in the wake of the withdrawal of Soviet forces. Its fighters quickly seized control of the city and within two years captured Kabul.

Mobin joined the group soon after its formation and he can still remember the euphoria he felt back then.

"At that time we were very happy. It was like we were very poor and had suddenly found a lot of money," he said.

Kandahar lies at the heart of the insurgency now sweeping across Afghanistan. Security in the province is dire and gets worse with each passing day. According to residents, troops rarely venture into the city because the situation is simply too volatile here.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
`Under the Talibs, if we had any problems, the government would sort things out very quickly'

Abdul Mobin, Kandahar resident

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Some 685 Canadian soldiers are already in the Kandahar area and about 1,400 more are expected to arrive next month.

Often dressed entirely in black, Talibs can be seen throughout Kandahar. They are not all involved with the insurgency but support for their beliefs is strong among the local population. This is because corruption has increased since the 2001 invasion and security in the province has declined.

"Under the Talibs, if we had any problems, the government would sort things out very quickly. Now we have to pay a lot of bribes to the government," said Mobin, who worked as an administrative officer when the Taliban controlled Kabul.

The Pashtun also still admires the men from Al Qaeda who were allowed to live and train in Afghanistan during that period.

"They came here just for jihad. Some Arabs lost their lives and now if you go to their graves, however sick you are, God will recover you. Thousands of people visit their graves to be cured because the Qur'an says God gives thousands of types of medicine to martyrs to cure different types of disease," he said.

Mobin accused some Taliban members of lacking knowledge and working against Afghanistan's interests. But he praised Mullah Mohammed Omar, the group's one-eyed leader, who remains a fugitive.

"Mullah Omar is a good man," he said. "Whenever he wanted to do something he would ask the religious people what he should do.

"Mullah Omar has no faults and the Talibs who are fighting have to fight. If they come back to Kandahar to live normally they will be caught by the Americans and sent to Guantanamo. If they go to Pakistan they will be caught. It's not their fault — they have no choice but to fight.

"I can't tell you if (the insurgency) will get stronger or not. But I can tell you one thing: No one can defeat them, no one can finish them. All the world can come together and it will not finish them, because it is written in the Qur'an."

Chris Sands is a freelance journalist
 
Sounds like they're organizing pretty well, and are deeply rooted in the administration, something that will affect Canada and its forces in the very present and future if this is the general consensus of these groups. This will only mean that we're going into Afghanistan for a long time, something that will affect alot of different areas including foreign policy, CF capabilities and equipment procurements. And I have a feeling these groups are spreading across the regions, which will greatly affect any future ops, and will also greatly affect countries in general - forcing a greater change in overall political environments.
 
Related to this topic...

I recently read a book called 'My Jihad' - the name of the author is escaping me right now.  Very good book, definitely recommend the read, especially to members of this forum.

The book is about a former Mujadeen fighter, who fought in Afghanistan and Chechnya.  He had met Usama Bin Laden, prior to Usama's fame around the world as a global terrorist, and has worked with American intelligence to gather information on terrorist operations.  Very good book, especially if you want an inside look at the mindset of a Mujadeen fighter, and how they consider themselves different than other religious extremists.
 
CBH99 said:
I recently read a book called 'My Jihad' - the name of the author is escaping me right now. 

It's by Aukai Collins - - an American who converts to Islam in a US prison, heads off to Bosnia to join the jihad, does the terrorist training gigs in Afghanistan and Pakistan, fights along side Usama's folks in Chechnya, gets fed up with terrorists wasting civies and becomes an FBI informant......you know, typical 'boy meets girl' story.  ;)

Actually, it is a good book, both for its inside look at the jihadist world, as well as commenting on the serious disconnects within the current counter-terrorist intelligence system.
 
You ask white anglo saxon fellas in toronto to tell you the difference between hinese, Japanese, Korean and Mongol men and "most" will look at you with a blank look and ask you "there's a difference?"... ditto between Indians, Pakistanis and Sri Lankans.

So I'm not surprised that the people of Kandahar group Americans, Brits and Canadians into one big happy grab bag... hey - a lot of our equipment and uniforms are similar looking.

Ask most individuals if they prefer "kaos in democracy" or "security in a dictatorship" and most will settle for the latter. Remember - Mussolini & Adolph made the trains run on time.
 
Oooooooh, a semi-literate tribesman spews religiously flavoured hatred against the US et al, including us. This is hardly "news".

If he really wants to put his money where his mouth is, he is more than welcome to demonstrate the strength of his convictions by attacking coalition troops. I'm sure that they will be more than willing to oblige his desire to become a glorious martyr.
 
We just have to remember that education is pretty much no existant especially in those hills, and women are worse off, so many don't even know what a Canada is, and after all if some sorta heard of it, they might roughly know where it is and they might think it is another part of America. I beleive only a small minority really know, and thats just how it is.

We sort of sound the same (After 11yrs of living overseas unless a Yank is from the south, I can't pick it out on many occasions myself).

Either way, we are foreigners occupying their country with white skin, and many will tar us all with the same brush. All westerners.

Being Canadian does make you bullet proof or a superman as many think! This 'hey don't they know who we are' has ended.

Cheers,

Wes
 
GO!!! said:
Oooooooh, a semi-literate tribesman spews religiously flavoured hatred against the US et al, including us. This is hardly "news".

If he really wants to put his money where his mouth is, he is more than welcome to demonstrate the strength of his convictions by attacking coalition troops. I'm sure that they will be more than willing to oblige his desire to become a glorious martyr.

Just remember that Afghanistan is home to this 'semi-literate tribesman'.  We're in HIS backyard.  Be careful what you wish for.
 
If you talk to people on the street in Kabul you will hear of vast Pashtun and Pakistani comspiracies etc.


The folks down south dont like us a lot...
 
Tell me about it.    ::)

Regards
 
I think the main problem in Afghanistan is that the Americans never committed enough forces once the Taliban was defeated. The military campaign itself ran like clockwork, much to the surprise of Osama Bin Laden, whose best hopes would have been met by a US/Coalition campaign in Afghanistan similar to that of the Soviet experience in the 1980s. However, the US got it right, by using the Northern Alliance in concert with Special Forces and air power. There was a window just after the defeat of the Taliban that the US could have used by expanding the mandate of UN forces in Kabul, and permitting them to operate in the countryside working on development and stability projects. Instead, US forces concentrated on hunting Bin Laden, and left the countryside to the war lords. The US also needed the bulk of its forces for Iraq (an move which made Bin Laden and his pals extremely happy), so could not focus as much on Afghanistan. The increase in violence we are seeing is due to a lack of US follow through in the period immediately following the downfall of the Taliban, and an unwillingness to give the international forces in Kabul a greater mandate.  I only hope Canadian soldiers do not have to pay a high price for this lack of foresight.
 
Why should the US be held responsible, perhaps if the Coalition ante'd up more troops and materiel then we would not have had the problem you describe.
 
"Remember - Mussolini & Adolph made the trains run on time."

- Nevermind run on time, how about even FINDING a train to Thunder Bay?  117,000 people and no Via Rail.

"We can't see any difference between the Americans and the Canadians and the British," Mobin said, "

- When we got there in Feb 2002 one of the first comments we heard was how much we looked like Russians, and if we stayed more than a year, we would be the new enemy.

"Great" I thought, "just great..."

Tom

 
Why should the US be held responsible, perhaps if the Coalition ante'd up more troops and materiel then we would not have had the problem you describe

The issue was not numbers of coalition troops. The United States did not want any interference with the hunt for Bin Laden, and therefore made sure that UN troops stayed in Kabul, when they could have been in the countryside taking power from the war lords, something the US was not willing to do because it would require more man power. If there were in fact insufficient numbers of UN soldiers, this is directly due to the fact that they were stuck in Kabul, where they were ineffective. Why send more soldiers to an already stable area? If the United States had allowed an expanded mandate, I think we definitely would have seen larger numbers of troops. Remember, at this point in time, nations were virtually falling over each other to send troops to Afghanistan as 9/11 was fresh in everyone's minds.
 
Dude your an idiot.


One they are NOT UN troops

They are NATO with a bunch of hangers off.


Secondly none of the namby pamby nations want to leave the safety of Kabul.

We had a German contingent that refused to patrol their sector (just outside of KJabul) since they took sporadic small arms fire.

The Brits where in OEF from the beginnign and IF YOU CAN RECALL in 2002 3 PPCLI was down in Kandahar -- how is that for the US not wanting help...

Your out of your league in this discussion - it was the other nations that just on the ineffectual ISAF mission to abandon the US in OEF.


-
 
KevinB said:
Secondly none of the namby pamby nations want to leave the safety of Kabul.

We had a German contingent that refused to patrol their sector (just outside of KJabul) since they took sporadic small arms fire.

I've read an article a couple of months ago about Germans stationed on Hindukush and taking casualties, don't have the link, though, sorry.
 
sure the germans took casualties - same as most nations participating in ISAF
Talib went after one of their busses in Kabul - a little before our troops joined ISAF

A country that is in an environment like Afghanistan or Iraq AND not drawing some fire by beligerents.... is playing it a little bit too safe.
 
Bratok said:
I've read an article a couple of months ago about Germans stationed on Hindukush and taking casualties, don't have the link, though, sorry.

Your thinking of the Dutch out of Mazeri Sharif.  ;)

They are in K town with us as well.

Regards
 
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