Canadian Combat Action Badge - Now A Dead Idea (Merged Threads)

[vonGarvin]

Well, I'm on record as disagreeing with the concept, but won't go there.

This will be very difficult to implement...  Who shot who when will be a never ending debate, as will the definition of "shooting"...  As George points out, how will backdating work?  There are certainly Bosnia/Croatia vets who might (depending on the definitions used) qualify for one or more "combat" badges, not to mention Afghanistan...

Can of worms, opened...

What about a badge for weapon drawed, readied and aimed, but didn't fire due to compliance of the potential target?  If so, send me one.


You're right, "can of worms".  I don't deserve anything for what I did BUT neither do I feel "right" wearing the ISAF star for my TAT duties in Kabul in 2003 when guys in combat get the same medal and bar.  Sure, it was "dangerous" (for lack of a better term), but it sure as heck wasn't combat.

 

[El Gerco]

"Here we go again.  BSA getting Polish Titles in the mail.  I used to laugh when I was doing AFV Recognition and had to identify Warsaw Pact uniforms and looked at the crap that they threw on their tunics.  Medals and Badges for everything, including any major exercise..........Will we now get medals/pins/badges backdated to say 1980?  I could collect Reforger '80, Reforge '81, Reforger '82, RV '85, RV '92, Fall Ex '90, BTE 2003,............I'll have to put some on my back as my chest isn't that big". 

Mr Wallace, For you to compare what you did on exercise to what our troops are going through in Afghanistan is an insult to all of them. Everyone over there is fighting a "360 degree counterinsurgency War"    I happen to know sir of a MCpl Engr in theatre right now who has been wounded 4 times!!! I think he and his peers deserve every ribbon badge and parade we give him.

Thank you.   

 

[3rd Horseman]

Muddy,

  I think George was being sarcastic, this is a can of worms as Teddy has stated so many times and very well. This award will be very divisive and difficult to sort out. The back date thing is very valid. Many and I mean many soldiers will get these for the fighting in Croatia and Bosnia, if they don't then this would be a farce. I'm with Teddy leave this alone, I see a soldier with a medal and if I follow the news I know what he has done or been prepared to do. Who has actually fired the weapon at an enemy is for many beers in the back room.

 

[Journeyman]

well.... coming to Canadians in the near future:.........
In the end, there will be two patches. The combat action patch, in gold and silver.... and the Combat Mission patch.

And here I thought I'd been over-freakin'-whelmed by stupid fucking ideas at work today.....

Does no one read history? All the hassles the Americans have with their CIBs....and BS citations? The number of Canadians who've been burned for wearing a white-leaf jump wing they never earned? Anyone not think this is going to be the same - - - worse?

As if the deployed troops aren't pestered enough by Staff Annoyance Assistance Visits. Now every HQ flopper and his dog passing through will need to get out on a patrol, with the desperate hopes of getting shot at.....for a boyscout badge to prove their testosterone level....regardless if the troops take hits babysitting the military tourists.

I have absolute respect for my bretheren in harms way - - but this is such a Pandora's Box. 

 

[gaspasser]

I tend to agree with journey man on this one.  Look at all the Herc pilots who wanted to fly just one mission into Saudi Arabia just so they could qualify for the the Gulf and Kuwait medal? They belittled those of us who were there for the long haul and actually went place and saw things we would never want to see again in our lives. This "CIB" for Canadians is certainly a pandora's box and would seem a headache for some poor RMS clerk who has to keep track not only of who's who in the zoo, but who goes outside the wire and gets shot at / returns fire etc.  Not a good idea, just leave it to bragging rights at the Legion.

Always a beer on the table for combat troops

BYT out

 

[geo]

Funny.... I had pert much all of those thoughts when I got the message.
Asked myself: do we really need this thing?  now?

The US has one combat infantry badge - you get it once and only once.

From my perspective the CAP in gold is on top of the pile. Once you qualify to wear it, that's it - you're on top and don't need to repeat (like the Wwarrior badge")
If you get the CAP in silver you can "upgrade" to gold but you only wear the one.

Then there is the CMP - same thing, you can upgrade to a CAP in silver or gold but you should only wear the one.....

At least that's the way I see it working - time will tell if I am out to lunch on this one.....

 

[Teddy Ruxpin]

BYT and Journeyman are exactly right...  I've said all this before and have been heavily engaged by those who feel that their service is deserving of such a distinction.  However, I suspect that this is an answer that will satisfy no one.  It will be very difficult to determine who gets what badge and for which actions.

For instance, a company goes into the attack in S. Afghanistan.  The OC, CSM, the signallers, and a variety of others don't fire their weapons.  Which badge do they get?  Are they "involved"?  Is that enough?  Where do we draw the line at being "involved"?

Does everyone on the receiving end of rocket fire on camp qualify for the combat mission badge?  Define "effective"...  Do warning shots qualify for the silver badge?  Can you receive more than one?

Even better, how retroactive is this?  Does the mission have be a fully-defined "combat" mission?  Does that eliminate the Balkans as "peacekeeping" missions?  If not, how are we to determine who gets which badge, based on events ten years ago?

They'd better have an airtight implementation plan, as "buttons and bows" are an extremely emotional subject (as other threads will indicate and despite all those who claim not to care about such things) and this will surely lead to an administrative mess of epic proportions.

 

[geo]

I can just imagine the "policing" nightmare of people walking around with the darned things.

 

[armyvern]

They'd better have an airtight implementation plan, as "buttons and bows" are an extremely emotional subject (as other threads will indicate and despite all those who claim not to care about such things) and this will surely lead to an administrative mess of epic proportions.

This is exactly it. I had previously stated my opinion that we should not implement this, and why. Now that someone has decided to, I really hope they get it right because I certainly don't forsee any merit to distinguishing between service, whether attacked with an IED or a rifle; it's all service, and voluntary at that, to your Country.

 

[McG]

Do mine strikes count?

 

[gaspasser]

As asked previously, would it be retroactive to even a Peacekeeping tour? How about Desert Storm? Scud strikes, round up the spout, etc...the list would be endless  :blotto: and even then, it would be on YOUR honour or those of you comrades. 

 

[geo]

No point asking how far back this thing will be applied.  The rules and regs will be published in due time.... and people will have every oportunity to bellyache about it at that time................

 

[McG]

Will CF-188 sorties over Kosovo count?

 

[armyvern]

Yep one big old can of worms this is.

 

[geo]

CF 188 sorties?????????/..................Ohhhhhhhhhh my!
Didn't know we had some of those.  Do they have a carrying handle at point of balance  

(JK - Yeah I figured - CF18)

 

[McG]

The CF-18 is officially designated the “CF-188” (we just don't call it that)

 

[geo]

Uh huh.... sure we do

 

[McG]

http://www.airforce.forces.gc.ca/equip/cf-18/intro_e.asp#1

 

[Journeyman]

"The bravest soldier in Afghanistan is the corporal who drives the tanker truck and she's a woman," a top Canadian general says. 1

What badge does she get? 


1. Paul Koring, "A thin Canadian line holds in Kandahar" Globe & Mail, 6 Dec 06
http://www.theglobeandmail.com//servlet/story/RTGAM.20061206.wxafghinsurg06/BNStory/Afghanistan/home

 

[geo]

http://www.airforce.forces.gc.ca/equip/cf-18/intro_e.asp#1

Darn..... really?.............. are you "in" with the web meister?............. Cheez 188! who woulda thought.