Canada's New Defence Minister

[Haggis]

Point highlighted in yellow for you.  Did you know that the Kurds just captured Sinjar Mountain from ISIS?  I'll give you a little geography lesson:


https://goo.gl/maps/Yj3MHU1GJpr

Sinjar Mountain is the dominant high feature on the road between Raqqa and Mosul, capturing it allows the occupant to control the main supply route between ISIS two main strongholds.  The Kurds just recaptured it and have essentially cut ISIS supply lines in two.  ISIS is now forced to use desert routes which take far longer and also expose them to additional risk. 

Guess who helped the Kurds capture Sinjar?  Canadian Special Forces, supported by CF18 aircraft who dropped bombs on ISIS positions.  Yep our planes sure are useless over there  :

Point conceded.  "Nothing" was the wrong word for me to use to describe the impact of our air contribution.

I don't get some folks in the CAF sometimes.  These guys killed two of our own, on home soil and they want to kill more of us if they get the chance.  Why the heck do we not want to be over there bombing them?  Are we sheep or are we wolves?

There are many (not I) who believe that the attacks of October 2014 were a direct result of our actions against ISIS, even though they were not ISIS directed, merely ISIS inspired attacks (based on MSM and OSINT reports).

In that Spain withdrew from the war in Iraq as a direct result of the Madrid bombings, and the Spanish have not suffered a domestic Islamist terrorist attack since, there is historical precedent to bear this belief out.

Will we be safer if we bring the Hornets home?  Maybe.  But, I think not, as ISIS not only opposes our participation in combat against the caliphate, but they also oppose our kuffar way of life. As I said  in another thread, ISIS' belief in their particular brand of Islam is pure and complete and their opposition to anyone/anything that does not absolutely conform to their belief should be destroyed.

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

Point conceded.  "Nothing" was the wrong word for me to use to describe the impact of our air contribution.

There are many (not I) who believe that the attacks of October 2014 were a direct result of our actions against ISIS, even though they were not ISIS directed, merely ISIS inspired attacks (based on MSM and OSINT reports).

In that Spain withdrew from the war in Iraq as a direct result of the Madrid bombings, and the Spanish have not suffered a domestic Islamist terrorist attack since, there is historical precedent to bear this belief out.


Will we be safer if we bring the Hornets home?  Maybe.  But, I think not, as ISIS not only opposes our participation in combat against the caliphate, but they also oppose our kuffar way of life. As I said  in another thread, ISIS' belief in their particular brand of Islam is pure and complete and their opposition to anyone/anything that does not absolutely conform to their belief should be destroyed.

http://www.dw.com/en/spanish-police-make-arrests-over-suspected-islamic-state-terror-attack-in-madrid/a-18824471

Just because they haven't been successful doesn't mean they haven't tried.  Spanish Police arrested a cell who wanted to attack Madrid last week.  You're presenting a very simplistic picture of the situation.

People can deny it all they want, we are at war with these people.

 

[Haggis]

You're presenting a very simplistic picture of the situation.

As do those who subscribe to this view, fed by the MSM.

People can deny it all they want, we are at war with these people.

Sorry, no.  "We", the greater Canada, are not at war.  A small portion of our Armed Forces is at war.  The next battle that the average Canadian is gearing up for is Black Friday.

 

[Altair]

Point highlighted in yellow for you.  Did you know that the Kurds just captured Sinjar Mountain from ISIS?  I'll give you a little geography lesson:


https://goo.gl/maps/Yj3MHU1GJpr

Sinjar Mountain is the dominant high feature on the road between Raqqa and Mosul, capturing it allows the occupant to control the main supply route between ISIS two main strongholds.  The Kurds just recaptured it and have essentially cut ISIS supply lines in two.  ISIS is now forced to use desert routes which take far longer and also expose them to additional risk. 

Guess who helped the Kurds capture Sinjar?  Canadian Special Forces, supported by CF18 aircraft who dropped bombs on ISIS positions.  Yep our planes sure are useless over there  :

EDIT:

I don't get some folks in the CAF sometimes.  These guys killed two of our own, on home soil and they want to kill more of us if they get the chance.  Why the heck do we not want to be over there bombing them?  Are we sheep or are we wolves?

We could have all our planes and every single man and woman in the CAF over there right now and it wouldn't stop two homegrown radicalized Islamic terrorists from carrying out those attacks.

A bomb over there doesn't stop a guy with a hunting rifle or car here.

That's a war being waged by our domestic security forces, csis, rcmp, local police. Not the CAF.

 

[Scoobie Newbie]

Here's a counter narrative for you on the whole refugee / migrant front.

1)  By some counts, there are 11M people who have made the decision that having their families barrel bombed by their own government is a bad idea, and have decided to leave (I do not trust those numbers).
2)  Assad reinstated the mandatory service clause for all "fighting aged males" in the Spring, asking people to contribute to the bombing of their own homes and families
3)  The people on the move could have walked 150 miles to Raqqah to join the Caliphate.  Instead, they walked 1500 miles to Rotterdam or 2500 miles to Rouen - and then on to Regina. 

I am willing to give them the benefit of the doubt.

We have radicals here (in the West) now.  They are either home-grown or plants - likely the former, as the latter requires a degree of sophistication so far lacking in ISIL tactics - it is so much easier to turn someone in place, than to train and dispatch them.  Either way, we have mechanisms and institutions charged with protecting us from that threat.  So far, they have done a bloody good job.

I am willing to give them the benefit of the doubt as well.

Alternatively, we could close our borders, harden our hearts to the suffering of others, forgo all civil liberties, and be very safe.

That is not the Canada I wish to serve.

Reports are coming in that at least one attacker came through the refugee pipeline.

 

[PPCLI Guy]

Which in no way refutes the narrative.

 

[Loachman]

A bomb over there doesn't stop a guy with a hunting rifle or car here.

Defeating them militarily on their own turf can certainly limit their appeal internationally. If recruiting drops because they lose their aura of invincibility, then that is a good thing.

 

[Jarnhamar]

We could have all our planes and every single man and woman in the CAF over there right now and it wouldn't stop two homegrown radicalized Islamic terrorists from carrying out those attacks.

A bomb over there doesn't stop a guy with a hunting rifle or car here.

That's a war being waged by our domestic security forces, csis, rcmp, local police. Not the CAF.

No but it will stop the recipient of the bomb from coming here and supporting the guy with the hunting rifle or car.

 

[a_majoor]

We could have all our planes and every single man and woman in the CAF over there right now and it wouldn't stop two homegrown radicalized Islamic terrorists from carrying out those attacks.

A bomb over there doesn't stop a guy with a hunting rifle or car here.

That's a war being waged by our domestic security forces, csis, rcmp, local police. Not the CAF.

We are a wealthy and powerful nation, and if we desired to do so could indeed send every man jack, airplane, ship and other assorted tools of war to Syria (or indeed, with some preparation, anywhere at all). As a Western military, we do indeed have the ability to project force around the world, and the professional skills to make it count when we get there. Because *we* as a nation have not had the collective interest or will to invest in the Armed forces for many decades, an invasion and destruction of the so called Caliphate would be a long and grinding process, but I don't doubt for a moment that we would militarily prevail. And erasing the Caliphate might inspire a few people to take out cars and hunting rifles for revenge, but would also dissuade far more people from moving in that direction.

Destroying and discrediting ISIS and all its leaders and institutions is the same formula which was used with great success against Nazi Germany, Fascist Italy and Imperial Japan, and while some of the ideologies are still around (National Socialism is the de facto anner under which many of Europe's nativist parties opposed to immigration and the EU run), they have not achieved much success since 1945. While thing may be changing in Europe to allow for these ideas to make a comeback, consider how long it took and what pressures had to be brought to bear (Arrogent and unresponsive Eurocrats dictating to sovereign nations, the financial meltdown, unrestricted immigration starting in the 1980's and the current confluence of terrorism and mass immigration from the same region the terrorists come from) for this to happen.

 

[Cloud Cover]

Which in no way refutes the narrative.

Doesn't appear to matter, the narrative is being bent by circumstances and spinning in an awful direction.

 

[YZT580]

As do those who subscribe to this view, fed by the MSM.

Sorry, no.  "We", the greater Canada, are not at war.  A small portion of our Armed Forces is at war.  The next battle that the average Canadian is gearing up for is Black Friday.

The small portion of our Armed Forces represents me as a Canadian.  Therefore, I am at war with ISIS. They were sent there under the orders of the government that I caused to be elected and serve me by being there.  They are not there on their own volition nor are they acting independently.  That would be treason. In fact, I suspect that many of them would much rather be back at their home bases. 

 

[daftandbarmy]

The small portion of our Armed Forces represents me as a Canadian.  Therefore, I am at war with ISIS. They were sent there under the orders of the government that I caused to be elected and serve me by being there.  They are not there on their own volition nor are they acting independently.  That would be treason. In fact, I suspect that many of them would much rather be back at their home bases.

Ummmm.... I doubt it.

Killing really, really bad guys, in a war zone that is about as black and white as you can get these days, is why people join up in the first place. They're not over there for years and years either, and get rotated back for the usual amount of leave etc.

OTOH, sitting on a base in Canada counting things and guarding the lockers? That's the stuff that will cause warriors to quit.  :camo:

 

[jollyjacktar]

:goodpost:

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

Ummmm.... I doubt it.

Killing really, really bad guys, in a war zone that is about as black and white as you can get these days, is why people join up in the first place. They're not over there for years and years either, and get rotated back for the usual amount of leave etc.

OTOH, sitting on a base in Canada counting things and guarding the lockers? That's the stuff that will cause warriors to quit.  :camo:

Never were truer words spoken!

 

[Jarnhamar]

OTOH, sitting on a base in Canada counting things and guarding the lockers? That's the stuff that will cause warriors to quit.  :camo:

Our regular army needs more smaller deployments at platoon and company level.  Less brigade sized ones in Wainwright.

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

Our regular army needs more smaller deployments at platoon and company level.  Less brigade sized ones in Wainwright.

What the Army needs to do is get involved in the Security Force Capacity Building business.  Something that right now is only really done by SOF and a handful of guys in organizations like DMTC and PSTC.

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

What the Army needs to do is get involved in the Security Force Capacity Building business.  Something that right now is only really done by SOF and a handful of guys in organizations like DMTC and PSTC.

Why? Just let the Army continue to train itself for what it has to do. It is having a hard time doing that now whit the budget it has.

 

[Journeyman]

What the Army needs to do is .....

^^^^  Maybe this should be a stand-alone thread title.

I'd offer up:

....get out of the badge-changing and HQ renaming/expanding business.   

 

[Kirkhill]

Our regular army needs more smaller deployments at platoon and company level.  Less brigade sized ones in Wainwright.

Could somebody create a Cost of Training Matrix?

1 Brigade Exercise at Wainwright of 14 Days costs X Dollars

X Dollars buys you how many local Brigade Exercise Days
X Dollars buys you how many local Battle Group Exercise Days
X Dollars buys you how many local Battalion Exercise Days
X Dollars buys you how many local Combat Team Exercise Days
X Dollars buys you how many local Company Exercise Days
X Dollars buys you how many local Platoon Exercise Days
X Dollars buys you how many local Section Exercise Days
X Dollars buys you how many local Team Exercise Days
X Dollars buys you how many local Crew Exercise Days
X Dollars buys you how many local Individual Exercise Days.

If you get my drift... 

 

[The Bread Guy]

Could somebody create a Cost of Training Matrix?

1 Brigade Exercise at Wainwright of 14 Days costs X Dollars

(....)

If you get my drift... 

How's this for a start?

300K will buy a week in the field for 1 CMBG.  I say kudos for rooting out waste wherever it is.

Tweak for inflation, and you have the first point on the graph ....