Cadets vs Reserves for RMC applicant

[Cadet Piper]

I've been in Army Cadets for the past four years and have had a fairly good career. However, I've reached the age that I can apply for the Primary Reserve. My main focus is on getting accepted into RMC therefore I want to make the right choice as to if I should stay in Army Cadets or go to the Reserve.

I've asked my CIC Officers at my Army Cadet Corps and all have told me the same thing, "RMC prefers ex Cadets as opposed to ex Reservists. The transfer from Reserve to RMC will take much a long time as well so you won't get in on time. You're better off staying in Cadets."

Would joining the Reserves affect my application to RMC negatively? Am I better off staying in the Cadet program?

PS: I used the search option to find any related threads but found none. If there is a thread in which this has been covered could anyone point me there?

 

[brihard]

I would suggest that few of your CIC officers are likely in a position to comment authoritatively on how it normally goes for those in the primary reserve who apply to RMC. I know guys who've done it successfully.

You either will or will not merit admission to RMC. Cadets v. Reserves will not be a deal breaker. Don't let them 'scare' you out of leaving Cadets. If RMC finds you suitable, the component transfer out of the reserves will happen. In the interim, the cadets have a vested interest in trying to keep you around.

Ask yourself instead what YOU want. RMC ought to look favourably on either, however it will depend on what *you* make of it. I cannot help but think that previous service in the actual military would be looked upon favourably by RMC.

Personally, I'd go reserves, gain some actual military experience. Who knows, maybe even an opportunity to deploy before you go off to school. In any case, going PRes for a few years will be a bit of an eye opener, and - most importantly, I think - will put you in the shoes of those who one day you will lead. That cannot be undervalued. You will experience good and bad officers firsthand, and gain an appreciation for the intelligence and abilities of soldiers that you otherwise might not get so easily.

To make sure any biases are clear, I'm a junior NCO in the reserves, and a fourth year undergrad student at a civilian university, not in ROTP. I'm also a former cadet. So take it for what it's worth.

 

[readytogo]

As i understand the system(im not a recruiter) if you join the reserves the only option available to you without a withdrawal from the Pres is RETP program (Reserve entry training program) in which you must foot the bill for your education or the CEOTP (continuing education officer training program).So based on that id say that staying in the cadets and applying ROTP is the best way to go.  Im hoping someone out there will tell me im wrong though!!

RTG

 

[GGHG_Cadet]

Brihard is bang on. There are plenty of ex reservists and cadets at RMC, everyone picked their own route based on what was right for them. Personally I stuck with cadets because the circumstances I was in were very good. On the other hand, some people only did reserves because that's what they wanted to do. Only you can choose.

A little aside, if you CT to the Regs/RMC from Reserves you are paid more than the average OCdt.

 

[brihard]

Brihard is bang on. There are plenty of ex reservists and cadets at RMC, everyone picked their own route based on what was right for them. Personally I stuck with cadets because the circumstances I was in were very good. On the other hand, some people only did reserves because that's what they wanted to do. Only you can choose.

A little aside, if you CT to the Regs/RMC from Reserves you are paid more than the average OCdt.

THIS.

I've got a buddy who just went ROTP as a reserve corporal. He's making corporal's pay and getting his education completely paid for under ROTP.

Readytogo- note that if you join the reserves and later go ROTP, you simply component transfer into the regular force. You are correct that reserve officers can get educated at RMC at a bit of a discount and pay the balance, but you can simply change over from reserves to reg and get the full deal.

(OK, nothing happens 'simply', but it's perfectly reasonable and normal for such to happen.)

 

[readytogo]

Thats the answers ive been trying to get out of CFRC for the last week Brihard, is he making corporal pay under an A, B, or C contract?

 

[brihard]

Thats the answers ive been trying to get out of CFRC for the last week Brihard, is he making corporal pay under an A, B, or C contract?

He's not. He is now a reg force officer cadet doing ROTP, and he is getting RegF Cpl's pay as an officer cadet due to his former reserve service as a Cpl.

 

[Chang]

This was posted in another thread and I think it offers good advice in your situation as well. I always regretted joining the reserves too early as the component transfer process does take quite awhile (i'm personally on my 7th month of waiting.) Also, from what I've noticed, regular applications gets processed much faster then component transfers unfortunately.

http://forums.navy.ca/forums/threads/27638/post-956878.html#msg956878

 

[Cadet Piper]

Thank you for the link Globemaster, very insightful. And to all, thank you for the input.

However, all may be in vain. Most if not all units in my city (Ottawa) are not taking applications. I was told by the local recruiters that if I don't get in around September that they will probably have positions open in April. By the time April rolls around, I would theoretically have to start my transfer from Reserve to Regular Force (RMC application) which would be just plain silly considering I would have just joined.

The reason why I want to leave the Army Cadet program is simple: I'm tired of playing quasi-military.

 

[brihard]

The reason why I want to leave the Army Cadet program is simple: I'm tired of playing quasi-military.

I hope everyone appreciates how much I'm resisting the almost mandatory dig at the Foot Guards.  ;D

 

[C-Aitchison]

Thank you for the link Globemaster, very insightful. And to all, thank you for the input.

However, all may be in vain. Most if not all units in my city (Ottawa) are not taking applications. I was told by the local recruiters that if I don't get in around September that they will probably have positions open in April. By the time April rolls around, I would theoretically have to start my transfer from Reserve to Regular Force (RMC application) which would be just plain silly considering I would have just joined.

The reason why I want to leave the Army Cadet program is simple: I'm tired of playing quasi-military.

Quite agreed there my good Tent 6 Friend.

The reason I am going through my reserve application process is because I plan on applying for a CT to RMC, and I want the extra money.

 

[lethalLemon]

I am also an Army Cadet (waiting for my PRes application to be processed) and it's pretty plain and simple.

CIC will do anything and feed you all kinds of BS to get you to stay and pretty much waste more time of your life, or you can open the other door - apply to the PRes, do a soldier's job AND get paid!!

That way too, when you get to RMC, you'll know how things work in the military and you'll have an edge over those that just came right out of civvie high-school or a civvie university to do post-graduate studies and serve as a CF Officer.

You'll have more open doors.
Don't hesitate, make the right decision for you!

(I personally waited too long to apply for the PRes... now I'm kinda in this slump and disappointed in myself that I didn't do it earlier)

 

[JMesh]

CIC will do anything and feed you all kinds of BS to get you to stay and pretty much waste more time of your life...

I hardly think that is an appropriate comment. As a CIC Officer myself, I have encouraged cadets coming to me about this to explore their options and do whatever they feel is best. I have even helped them search up the information they have been looking for to help give them a fair view. I believe there is merit in both cadets and PRes, and would never try to talk someone out of either one. I also know for a fact that many of my fellow CIC officers act in the same manner, as I have seen this first hand. Don't generalize all people in a group based on your experiences.

EDIT to add: Also, I hardly think that the cadet program is a waste of time in your life. You can take it as an opportunity to improve your knowledge, experience and leadership abilities to grow into a better citizen, and if you do join the forces, a more knowledgeable entrant (though you would still have much to learn). Furthermore, IAW CATO 13-07, it is possible to be a member of both the CCO and the PRes. Quoting CATO 13-07,

[quote author=CATO 13-07, para 2]
Membership in a cadet unit does not legally bar enrolment in the Primary Reserve.
[/quote]

and

[quote author=CATO 13-07, para 3]
Membership in Cadets or the Primary Reserve should be re-evaluated, however, if the cadet/reservist is unable to deal with the
increased responsibility. The cadet unit CO shall determine whether continued involvement as a cadet is appropriate.
[/quote]

 

[SevenSixTwo]

Odd question but slightly on topic:

If he did join the reserves could he not just apply for ED&T and then go to RMC while the transfer etc goes through?

 

[George Wallace]

I don't think you understand fully what ED&T is.  If he was going to go to RMC, I am sure he would like to get paid.  ED&T would mean that he would be Exempt Drill and Training, and thus excused Parading, therefore NOT being paid.  It is a method to stop unnecessary NES processing of pers who need to stop Parading for a period of time due to job or education commitments. 

 

[lethalLemon]

I hardly think that is an appropriate comment. As a CIC Officer myself, I have encouraged cadets coming to me about this to explore their options and do whatever they feel is best. I have even helped them search up the information they have been looking for to help give them a fair view. I believe there is merit in both cadets and PRes, and would never try to talk someone out of either one. I also know for a fact that many of my fellow CIC officers act in the same manner, as I have seen this first hand. Don't generalize all people in a group based on your experiences.

EDIT to add: Also, I hardly think that the cadet program is a waste of time in your life. You can take it as an opportunity to improve your knowledge, experience and leadership abilities to grow into a better citizen, and if you do join the forces, a more knowledgeable entrant (though you would still have much to learn). Furthermore, IAW CATO 13-07, it is possible to be a member of both the CCO and the PRes. Quoting CATO 13-07,

and

Okay... So there are some CIC officers that are an exception to that. Have I faced any? No. In my total (almost) 6 years as a cadet I have yet to encounter a CIC officer who thought nothing but of the success of their career and the corps rather than allowing an open-door for members to talk about possible career changes/advancements; and with the whole "waste of your time" - after 4 years it just starts to get redundant and the 3 units I've been a member of failed to make my time and the rest of the corps time exciting and have and Army touch to it. It started to become like going to school for another 2-3 hours at night; except you wore a uniform and did drill. However since I had been designated the A/RSM I have made some drastic improvements to my current unit and really put a whole lot of my time into it. I'll be honest, I can't imagine my life without the cadet program; my most memorable moments, greatest memories and remarkable experiences were all thanks to the Cadet program; and I developed skills that many people won't have at my age (or even after Univ) when apply for jobs etc. But the blood, sweat and tears I've put into this program compared to what I got out of it is small and makes me wish I was getting paid for all that time and hard work.

But all-in-all I have nothing against the Cadet program - sure I have a lot to complain about... but that's something I'll keep to myself.

The PRes will present a different challenge everyday and will always give you something to look forward to. The training is amazing, the battle drills and etc; plus a paycheque and some wonderful benefits to go with it all. Pretty much seals the deal.

 

[SevenSixTwo]

I don't think you understand fully what ED&T is.  If he was going to go to RMC, I am sure he would like to get paid.  ED&T would mean that he would be Exempt Drill and Training, and thus excused Parading, therefore NOT being paid.  It is a method to stop unnecessary NES processing of pers who need to stop Parading for a period of time due to job or education commitments.

If he went to the Reserves it would take a period of time before the transfer to an officer program (if he wanted to do one) would take place. Not everyone lives in Kingston, Ontario and thus would need to be in one of the officer training programs or be on ED&T and simply collecting your $2000 every year and doing training in the summer.

It's his personal choice on how he wants to do it. If he was going for an officer training plan he might as well apply for that now instead of doing the reserves at all. If you had read the OP you would have seen that he was asking how to make being in the reserves as a NCM and then going to RMC could work in a short time period.


I have no beef with you George but please don't insult my intelligence.


EDIT: Post based on the fact that hiring is closed until April 2011 unless red trade etc. If hiring isn't closed I apologize for this. However, if it was he would be in his final year of high school anyways and might as well go the ROTP/RETP/CEOTP route.

 

[Jarnhamar]

The PRes will present a different challenge everyday and will always give you something to look forward to. The training is amazing, the battle drills and etc; plus a paycheque and some wonderful benefits to go with it all. Pretty much seals the deal.

You should wait until you join the reserves before you talk about how amazing the training and "battle drills" are.  4 dudes standing on a wooden pallet pretending it's a G-Wagon, picking it up and moving it around then placing it down, standing on it and "dismounting" yelling "bang-bang" isn't awesome.

Don't get me wrong some of it IS pretty awesome but there WILL be times when things totally suck to don't be surprised by it.

I hope you make it into the reserves but the last thing we need is another complainer so leave that at the door when you join.  And don't try and make fun of the cadets to try and fit in better, it'll impress new guys and there will be some laughs about it but over all it just looks disloyal. don't burn bridges.

 

[SevenSixTwo]

You should wait until you join the reserves before you talk about how amazing the training and "battle drills" are.  4 dudes standing on a wooden pallet pretending it's a G-Wagon, picking it up and moving it around then placing it down, standing on it and "dismounting" yelling "bang-bang" isn't awesome.

Don't get me wrong some of it IS pretty awesome but there WILL be times when things totally suck to don't be surprised by it.

I hope you make it into the reserves but the last thing we need is another complainer so leave that at the door when you join.  And don't try and make fun of the cadets to try and fit in better, it'll impress new guys and there will be some laughs about it but over all it just looks disloyal. don't burn bridges.

What occupation doesn't involve 80% +/- suckage?

 

[Bonko]

It's hard to say which one is better to be honest, yes if you go PRes and decide later on that you want RMC you will get paid more than say an standard OCdt fresh out of high school or whatever. Also you'll gain some respect for what the majority of what NCO's go through on a "daily" basis. Also as a PRes you'll get your foot in the door and gain an idea of what to expect if you decide to go reg force. Ultimately the decision is yours!