Cadets Joining the Reserves - Can it be Both?

[alan_li_13]

How would you manage going into the reg force and staying in cadets at the same time? Unless you mean joining the reg force and coming back on your free time to help out with a cadet corp.

Well...there's a few ways to do this. Here's one i'm considering. If i am accepted to ROTP at a civilian university, i can stay in cadets in my free time. But i would be unable to attend Summer Training because i will be doing my officer training with the reg force.

Also, even though ur not attending regular training, you are still on strength with your cadet corp until you've officially left. During that time, you might have joined the regular forces and be training with them.

 

[brihard]

I can guarantee that one of the most self-punishing things you can do is to stay in cadets after becoming a member of ANY component of the CF. you'll take a lot of crap from the people you work with, and in all honesty, I think it's deserved to a degree.

Cadets is a youth organization designed to foster interest in the CF. By joining the CF, cadets has achieved its goal, and all you're doing by staying in is filling up a slot in your unit structure that another cadet could rise into, giving them the opportunity to get experience. My personal theory - and don't take this the wrong way - is that most people who go this route, staying in cadets after reserves enrolment, is an unconcious desire to impress their fellow cadets with the 'I'm a real soldier now' idea. Well, you've got more important people to be impressing- the corporals and senior privates you'll be working alongside and learning from, and the NCOs who'll be leading you. Refusing to cut the apron strings by staying in what is effectively a kids' organization is not the way to do so,, and in the cases I've encountered, leads to a lot of contempt directed at the person doing so from others in the unit.

While the CATOs DO allow a person to be a member of the reserve force and a cadet at the same time, it just isn't something that's a good idea. Move on, and do everything you can to learn about the next step you're taking.

Just my $.02

A former cadet, and now reservist.

 

[Love793]

The progression from a cadet corps to a Reg or Reserve force unit is encouraged.   This is why we (members of the CF, Reg, PRes or CIC) spend so much time running and supporting the Cadet movement (Sea, Army and Air).

As for Reservist still being cadets, there is no hard and fast rule on it.   It has been found in the past (through my experiences) that it can be detrimental to the Cadet(s).   It is best for that member to volunteer his/her time after a year or two of being away from the corps as an assistant.   It would help out both organizations that way.

In Windsor, I am currently employed as the Recruiting NCO for the Windsor Regiment, and take great interest in the actions of our 3 corps (202, 1112, and 2828).   Cadets our greatest recruits.   Our CO has recognized this, and pledged 100% support to our corps (where avail, operational tasking priority).   This includes a cadre of Cpls and MCpls whom aid in the training of the corps, and inclusion of them in unit functions and exorcises.

Unfortunately, there are some affiliate units out there whom want little to do with their corps.   This where a lot of confusion/friction occurs between the Cadet organizations and CF units.

Another problem I have seen, coming through the cadet system (Air), and the Primary Reserve is that there are still a lot of CIC officers out there whom feel that they are there to turn out CIC officers.   This is not the reason they are there.   Cadets are there to 1) Foster in youth attributes of good citizenship
                                      2) Promote Physical fitness
                                      3) Develope and foster an interest in the Canadian Forces

This is changing however, just as the rest of the CF is changing.   It will just take a while.

Semper Paratus :warstory:

 

[Gibson27]

While the CATOs DO allow a person to be a member of the reserve force and a cadet at the same time, it just isn't something that's a good idea. Move on, and do everything you can to learn about the next step you're taking.

well said, cadets is a steping stone to model one into a responsible and respected youth and has been sucessful in creating responsible adults with a direction in life.

Cut the link and progress, move to reserves if you are in school, and join the forces if you are readt to comit yourself and serve the country.

I was a former cadet, it was great during my youth but it has to end, forces is next for me. Cadets helped me make a career decision, it has no longer no use for me. I 'd love to give back to the youth but i'd rather serve my country as a whole.

 

[21trucker]

Whats wrong with doing both?? I can see there may be problems with some units; however, can that individual not bring back the experience he gains in the reserves to help teach his/her fellow cadets?

Any training with your own unit(reserve) has priority. Having said that, the member can be promoted within the corps in a leadership position; as he/she has gained more experience than some of the cadets. While training of the 2 elements is different, it does overlap in some areas. It is in these areas that he/she can bring the knowledge back to the corps.

Provided it does not cause any problems, there should be no reason why they can't. As someone who volunteers at our affliated corps, i will be surprised if any problems do arise. If they do, we'll deal with it then. We have one member of our unit who is doing both, and we are expecting several more to do the same in the coming year.

Just my 0.02

 

[Love793]

Trucker,

I have no problems personally with it.  However as you and I know, some "recruits' forget that they are no longer "big fish" when they come to the unit.  This causes a problem when trying to unteach then reteach.  Fortunately in the Garrison we have enough former "Big Fish" to pull those people aside and remind them in the best "Windsor Area" way of their new roles in life.  Some places are different.

When do you guys start parading again?

 

[Sapper24]

I too feel that there is nothing wrong in doing both, if you have the time to do both and put forth a good effort all the more to ya. As trucker said you can bring bcak the experience to your cadet corps, you can also do that by volunteering with the cadet corps as a reservist and still use your experience if you don't really feel like continuing on with te cadet program.

 

[Navalsnpr]

I've worked with 5 Cadet Corps over the past 18 Years, of which I still continue to volunteer with Cadets since I joined the RegF in '92.

To my knowledge, there is not any administrative rule preventing Cadets from concurrently being member of the Reserves. Most Corps that I've dealt with encourage Cadets to either stay with the Cadet Program or join the Reserves if that is your wish but not both.

It can become a bit difficult during specific functions. If you are 17 and still in Cadets, you are probably one of the senior ranking Cadets in the Corps. What happens on Remembrance Day when you are a Cadet RSM and expected to be on parade as a Cadet and at the same time your Reserve unit indicates that you are also required to be on parade with them. A conflict will arise that could have been avoided.

If you have your heart set on joining the Reserves, do so and let them know that you wish to assist the Cadet Corps with training.

As for being a Cadet and being in the Reg Force, I wouldn't even go there. Officially as a RegF member, you should be putting in a request through your COC to volunteer with a Cadet Corps. Besides, your first couple of years in the RegF you will be part of the Training System and volunteering time with a Corps is not encouraged. If you fail a course and are volunteering with Cadets, it can come back and hurt you later.

 

[condor888000]

[quote author=CATO 13-07=topic=24238/post-144014#msg144014 date=1104790135]
STATUS - CADET / MEMBER OF THE PRIMARY RESERVE

PURPOSE

1. The purpose of this order is to clarify the status of cadet versus reservist. It supersedes
Canadian Forces Cadet Policies and Procedures, Article 355, dated 01 August 1988.

GENERAL

2. The provisions for eligibility for membership in a cadet unit are outlined in Chapter 4 of the Queen's Regulations and Orders
(Cadets) (QR(Cadets)). The provisions for enrolment in the Primary Reserve are outlined in CFAO 49-10 and 49-11. Membership in a cadet unit does not legally bar enrolment in the Primary Reserve.

3. Membership in Cadets or the Primary Reserve should be re-evaluated, however, if the cadet/reservist is unable to deal with the increased responsibility. The cadet unit CO shall determine whether continued involvement as a cadet is appropriate.

4. A person may not be a cadet and a member of the CIC concurrently.

CODE OF SERVICE DISCIPLINE

5. A reservist is subject to the Code of Service Discipline under sub-section 55(1)(c)(viii) of the National Defence Act when â Å“in or on any vessel, vehicle or aircraft of the Canadian Forces or in any defence establishment or work for the Defenceâ ?. Hence, a cadet who is also a reservist could be charged with a service offence and could be required to appear before a service tribunal.

OPI: D Cdts 5
Date: May 98
Amendment: Original
[/quote]

Quoted from CATO 13-07. As you can see, it is perfectaly allowable for a cadet to be a res as well. However, if the cadet CO feels it will impact your service at either of the units in a negative way, they may inform you to leave the cadet corp.

Why you would do this I'm unsure, but you technically can.

 

[Q.Y. Ranger]

Cadets is a youth organization designed to foster interest in the CF. By joining the CF, cadets has achieved its goal

I know that, but do the CIC's, the people incharge of the corps, know that. When my officers first heard that I was planning on quiting cadets at the end of this year (which i still am) to join the reserves, they tried to influence me to stay. They brought me into their office and they would talk to me about how the didnt want me to leave. I would think they would be happy, that cadets has made me want to join the reserves, but it seems I was wrong.

 

[alan_li_13]

They brought me into their office and they would talk to me about how the didnt want me to leave. I would think they would be happy, that cadets has made me want to join the reserves, but it seems I was wrong.

I believe its their duty to make sure you are aware of what you are doing, that you know the dangers and risks, etc. They only want the best for you.
The cadet movement and your corp has spent lots of money and effort on you, when you become a senior, you should start giving back by staying to guide the younger cadets and privates. If they didnt want you to leave, you should take it as a complement that you can do your job and do it well.

 

[Navalsnpr]

If a Cadet has completed most or all of the core training and now is a asset to the Corps then of course they will try and influence you to stay. You being a C/SGT would put you in a position that you could assist with instruction of junior Cadets and Supervise events. If you are able to do those jobs, then that frees up one of the CIC Officers to complete other tasks.

Looking at it another way, if you were to leave and lets say the Supply Officer now must start instructing, then there will be a delay on Cadets getting their initial issue of Uniforms, exchanges of Uniforms, and possibly ordering of equipment for exercises.

 

[Love793]

Q.Y Ranger,

Out of curiosity, how much support do you guys get from the QYR?  Again just curious.

 

[Meridian]

Hmm, Id never considered this a possibility.


As for being RegF and a cadet.. Im sure there is some regulation or another against it...  But I could be wrong.

My roommate at CFSJ (Under ROTP) lived near St Jean and went back to his Cadet Corps and volunteered.. originally he did not request permission, but then realized he was required to if he wanted to wear his Reg F uniform or use any of his kit (ruck, etc)... the COC was fairly accomodating, as long as it did not detract from his studies or course performance.  (Ie he helped out maybe 1-4 times on weekend FTX's).

AS others have mentioned.. while Cadets is certainly something to be proud of, when I was going through ROTP (RMC) there were a significant amount of people coming through who came from Cadets.. many knew each other, and most were the "top" or "senior" cadets... with a plethora of awards, ranks, etc....  I think it took all of two hours on our first day for one of the DS to proclaim that he did not give a rats ---- who had been in Cadets, and that we were all in the real military now.

Basically my suggestion would be to take the training you have gained and apply it when utilizing your skills, but always be open to bigger and better things.  By virtue of adolescent psychology and even liability alone, there are things you were either not capable of doing mentally or physically or legally when you were in Cadets that you may be able to do as you progress in a PRes or RegF role...  I learned a lot from many of the ex-Cadets who helped me get those bed corners folded, and gave suggestions on polishing boots... but when it came down to it, we all got jacked up for various things...  (oh... and many Cadets in the long run ended up being poor on the drill square... mostly because they refused to receive suggestions and advice on improving and thought they "knew it already")

The Canadian Govnt has invested funds into the Cadet organization, and as prev mentioned... it is a great recruiting tool. Probably the best ROI (return on investment) you can give is to join the military, complete training, and then volunteer back with your old Corps..... I can only see this being a far greate investment by yourself than staying on as a "Senior" cadet for one or two more years.

 

[Love793]

Quoted from CATO 13-07. As you can see, it is perfectaly allowable for a cadet to be a res as well. However, if the cadet CO feels it will impact your service at either of the units in a negative way, they may inform you to leave the cadet corp.

Why you would do this I'm unsure, but you technically can.

Yes, but the CO of the PRes unit may also order that Member not to parade with the cadet unit.  I have seen this occur.  Unfortunately for the member whom tried quoting the CATO (which DOES NOT supercede the QR&Os Vol(s)1-5), and parading anyhow, it resulted in that pers being Charged with offences under the NDA. Sect 77 - Disobeying a lawful order, and 129 Conduct Prejudicial to the Good Order and Discipline to be exact.  Touchy legal issues.

 

[condor888000]

Thanks for the info, I wasn't sure if the Res CO can order a cadet to no longer parade with the unit. That must stink for the person who tried to do both though...getting charged and all...

 

[Meridian]

Well given that from my understanding he only got charged because he disobeyed an order and all.. I don't really feel much pity for the guy who wanted so badly to be in two military-oriented organizations that he disregarded the disciplinary bases of both..

If I misunderstood the situation, then oops

 

[marshall sl]

I did both back in the 70's. Joind the reserve battalion in March 76, went to Vernon on staff and was promoted to Cpl in the reserves that fall,the same time I was appointed RSM of the Cadet Corp. Did this til the fall of 77 when i aged out.

Had no problems with at all. In fact the OC of my Reserve Coy was also the CO of the Cadet Corp

 

[condor888000]

Well given that from my understanding he only got charged because he disobeyed an order and all.. I don't really feel much pity for the guy who wanted so badly to be in two military-oriented organizations that he disregarded the disciplinary bases of both..

True, but it still musta been a real let down for him...

 

[Love793]

The person was charged because they had violated the NDA, but that's neither here nor there.  Point is although some people can do it concurrently, some have problems doing it and forget what the priorities are.  When a member spends more time parading with a cadet corps as a cadet, than parading with their unit the line may have to be drawn.