Cadet Videos on You Tube

[aesop081]

Correct and develop, don't punish and leave in the dirt.

There is a time for both Kyle, believe it or not.

 

[rwgill]

There is a time for both Kyle, believe it or not.

You are absolutely right.  Given the time line here, running them through the dirt MAY have already been done.  What isalso being done here, and what is MORE important, is that we learn from our mistakes. 

The ultimate error here is the posting of the video, NOT the content of the video. 

This site has guidelines, and they must be followed.  A member of the CF on this site must obey not only this site guidelines, but also the various and numerous rules and regulations of the CF.  Cadets are not fully aware that there are Cadet Regulations regarding the internet.

Quite honestly, many (dare I say most) youth today have selective hearing and selective memory.  They know that there are rules out there and sometimes forget or sometimes ignore.  If we threw every teenager who did wrong in jail and threw away the key..............all teenagers would be in prison.  You and I would still be there

This site, and similiar sites, do an excellent job at policing themselves.............to protect the image of Cadets and the CF, by using moderators.  Other sites, like YouTube, flickr, Photobucket, MySpace and even eBay do nothing unless a complaint is made.  Luckily this incident was quashed before any real and major damage could be done.  Making Cadets aware of this will help not only the CCO, but also the CF.

Counselling cadets can prevent another incident, which is the ultimate goal.  Rather than hiding a mistake, the CCO is acknowledging it, correcting it and moving forward.  I only wish that more people could move on.

 

[FredDaHead]

This site, and similiar sites, do an excellent job at policing themselves.............to protect the image of Cadets and the CF, by using moderators.  Other sites, like YouTube, flickr, Photobucket, MySpace and even eBay do nothing unless a complaint is made.  Luckily this incident was quashed before any real and major damage could be done.  Making Cadets aware of this will help not only the CCO, but also the CF.

How so? By breeding cadets--the future CF members, I assume, that will bring the benefits to the CF--who will believe that if they screw up massively, it's okay, because they'll just get "counselled," and nothing will actually happen? By breeding a culture of pointing the finger at everyone else, as Mr. Burrows is doing?

I hate to play up the slippery slope, but considering some cadets get to St-Jean with the laughable idea that they know what "the Army" is about, they're likely to bring with them the idea that if you break the rules, you won't get punished. Those people will be a liability at best, a danger to others and themselves at worse. That is not what the CF need right now, or ever.

 

[ryanmann356]

Cadets is an organization that focuses on developing youth, not slapping them down for doing something wrong.  The issue is being resolved by the CO of the RCSU and the Bde Comd and we should leave it at that. 

I have to agree.  While I do not at all condone what these kids did, there really isn't any standard punishment for this kind of thing.  Facebook and Youtube are relatively recent things to emerge and the senior staff do not have much experience with cadets posting on blogs and facebook, nexopia etc.  Please remember that I do not at all condone what these kids did.  Its hard to say without seeing what was on the video.  But these kids shouldn't get the boot from the organisation for this, I agree with the corrective measures training. 

Perhaps a new training should be added to CHAPP or something to deal with this sort of thing.  I recently did a student challenge with the Vancouver Police Department where students from around Vancouver could experience a little bit of what the VPD recruits go through.  We did do some shooting and driving and other techniques and the instructors sternly told us not to post whatever pictures we had with the control tactics or driving or anything else on Facebook or Nexopia or whatever as outsiders who do not know what the program entails would not understand what we were doing and would assume we were being taught violent things.
So perhaps the staff and senior cadets alike should take this as a lesson and inform cadets of the repercussions of posting their pictures and videos around the internet.

Just MHO

 

[rwgill]

How so? By breeding cadets--the future CF members, I assume, that will bring the benefits to the CF--who will believe that if they screw up massively, it's okay, because they'll just get "counselled," and nothing will actually happen? By breeding a culture of pointing the finger at everyone else, as Mr. Burrows is doing?

1.  Punishment is a short term solution to any given problem.

2.  Counselling, though a softer approach, has better long term effects.

3.  Mr. Burrows, is taking a bang-on approach.  We have to find out why.  It is the only way to be able to properly correct the problem.

Cadets learning from their mistakes will help them understand the virtually identical rules of the CF.  They will be able to properly project the professional image currently portrayed by the CF.  Joe Canadian often gets the two (Cadets and the CF) mixed up.  The two are very different.

When the CF makes a major mistake, the CCO feels the pressure.  When the CCO screws up, well we have this discussion.

May I suggest, if you are that upset with the LCol's memo, write to him.

BTW, the CO RCSU is not a CIC officer.  Last time I checked, the Bde Comd was not either.

 

[FredDaHead]

1.  Punishment is a short term solution to any given problem.

2.  Counselling, though a softer approach, has better long term effects.

Punishment AND counselling is the solution. Punish those who screwed up, and counsel everyone so nobody screws up again. Otherwise it gives the message that it's not so bad, it's just something you might not want to do.

3.  Mr. Burrows, is taking a bang-on approach.  We have to find out why.  It is the only way to be able to properly correct the problem.

What approach is that? Blaming everyone but the cadets on a leadership course for what said cadets did? Hardly the proper solution, and definately NOT "bang-on."

Joe Canadian often gets the two (Cadets and the CF) mixed up.

That is why cadets who are going into leadership positions should be held up to high standards, otherwise there will be a breakdown at the lower ranks and the whole organisation will break down, spraying crap all over the CF.

 

[Burrows]

How so? By breeding cadets--the future CF members, I assume, that will bring the benefits to the CF--who will believe that if they screw up massively, it's okay, because they'll just get "counselled," and nothing will actually happen? By breeding a culture of pointing the finger at everyone else, as Mr. Burrows is doing?

I hate to play up the slippery slope, but considering some cadets get to St-Jean with the laughable idea that they know what "the Army" is about, they're likely to bring with them the idea that if you break the rules, you won't get punished. Those people will be a liability at best, a danger to others and themselves at worse. That is not what the CF need right now, or ever.

By no means am I absolving the guilty parties.  What I'm saying point-blank is that cadets aren't educated enough about what should and shouldn't be posted on the internet.  This incident is the first I've ever heard of.  By all means, punish the troops for making a stupid video, but you can't legitimately lay the blame solely on them and dish out a severe punishment.

Like it or not there was a fault in the chain of command for not properly supervising these kids as well as not teaching them what shouldn't be posted on the internet (or even done for that matter).  Like I've said before, this is the first time I have ever heard of any rules being applied to what cadets are posting on the internet.

I'm not totally laying the blame on others as you so eagerly try to fault me for Frederik, but if a troop doesn't know to use his weapon because someone neglected to teach him, do you blame the troop solely or the instructor that was busy contemplating the most prolific meaning of his navel?

Just to clarify, a punishment is needed, but not one with a normal amount of severity.  Why?  If nobody covered this with the cadets then they were just exercising their own poor judgement without the knowledge of any rule that prohibited posting the video.

 

[FastEddy]

[/quote]

Gentlemen, having read pages 1 to 4 and noticing that most of the posters comments were complaining or up set with a certain Video of Cadets. And upon searching for said video on the provided link, I found nothing that could be related to this Thread or the comments within.

Perhaps, some kind soul could bring me  (and other late readers) up to date on the subject of this video and its contents

Many Thanks,

FastEddy.

 

[rwgill]

Page 2 Eddy

:

If they are going to do room clearing drills, they should be done according to the pam.

After looking at that video, it places the CF in a bad light, because of the actions of some 13 (just a random age) year old kids.  My point comes from the "Cut His Throat" made around 42 seconds in; and the treatment of the PW's in particular the stabbing actions made 49 seconds in.

The offendings videos haves been  pulled from You Tube.

If you are still interested, there are some great Cadet You Tube videos here:

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=dcdts

 

[FredDaHead]

Page 2 Eddy

The offendings videos haves been  pulled from You Tube.

If you are still interested, there are some great Cadet You Tube videos here:

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=dcdts

And that's relevant, how? It has absolutely nothing to do with the topic at hand.

 

[Rocketryan]

And that's relevant, how? It has absolutely nothing to do with the topic at hand.

He was helping FastEddy by posting a quote which gave the best explanation of the video.
And he posted a link to youtube showing different Army Cadet videos since I am sure he thought that FastEddy might have also been looking for various Cadet videos.

 

[FredDaHead]

He was helping FastEddy by posting a quote which gave the best explanation of the video.
And he posted a link to youtube showing different Army Cadet videos since I am sure he thought that FastEddy might have also been looking for various Cadet videos.

He asked specifically for

Perhaps, some kind soul could bring me  (and other late readers) up to date on the subject of this video and its contents

NOT cadet videos in general. The topic at hand is that despicable show of idiocy in the filming and posting of that video, not cadet videos in general, as I'm sure there are a lot of good ones.

 

[FastEddy]

He asked specifically for

NOT cadet videos in general. The topic at hand is that despicable show of idiocy in the filming and posting of that video, not cadet videos in general, as I'm sure there are a lot of good ones.

Ah ! Gentlemen , you are all correct,

1. I did discover that the Video had been pulled.

2. I did review some other splendid videos of Cadets whilst there.

3. I did get the drift of the video from "regill".                                                  

4. And Yes "Frederick G" is correct, that is what I specifically wanted
was the drift or content of the video.                                                                                                           

I thank you all for your quick responses and info.

I must also voice a strong objection to this type of exposure and training for CF Cadets and their civilian peers.

Cheers.

Edited for paragraphicing.

 

[rwgill]

He asked specifically for

NOT cadet videos in general. The topic at hand is that despicable show of idiocy in the filming and posting of that video, not cadet videos in general, as I'm sure there are a lot of good ones.

I added it in  AFTER  answering the question.

Sorry if I offended you : 

 

[Burrows]

Cool your jets Frederik.  Making a scene isn't going to get you any points here.  Put the barbs away.

If you feel that a post is irrelevant then please report the post using the post report system, all telling someone off does is make ANOTHER useless post, bringing the useless post count to at LEAST one provided the first post is relevant.

 

[FredDaHead]

Reporting posts apparently accomplishes nothing, even when there is a blatant breach of the guidelines (not that it was the case in this instance), hence my pointing out that the post was irrelevant to the topic at hand rather than using the post report thinger. Besides, as you don't seem to agree with my assessment that the post was useless, and you're the mod for this part of the boards, I don't see what it would have accomplished, even if reporting posts worked in other instances.

 

[Burrows]

Reporting posts apparently accomplishes nothing, even when there is a blatant breach of the guidelines (not that it was the case in this instance), hence my pointing out that the post was irrelevant to the topic at hand rather than using the post report thinger. Besides, as you don't seem to agree with my assessment that the post was useless, and you're the mod for this part of the boards, I don't see what it would have accomplished, even if reporting posts worked in other instances.

We do deal with every post report and valid ones are logged.  When a report it made EVERY moderator receives the email and those that require action are dealt with. 

I quickly tire of your tomfoolery and this is as far as this subject is going.  If you have an issue then please PM the Site Owner, Mr. Mike Bobbitt, otherwise get on with your life.  Just because you don't think reporting a post would accomplish anything doesn't mean play vigilante. Report posts that you think may be inappropriate and they will be dealt with, any other course of action is creating yet another problem. 

Being annoying doesn't make rwgills post any more against the rules, it just makes you look like an idiot.  Grow up.

 

[foerestedwarrior]

Appropriate action was taken. That is that. If you genuinley have an issue with how this is situation was delt with, I will walk down the hall and ask for Col Armstong for his email, so you can personally voice your complaints.

Freddy G, dude, chill out. Judging by your profile, well lack of. I will assume you are in cadets, thus your interest in this forum. You have been here since 2001, so longer then me, though you dont seem to get the just of the whole, being nice to the random people that run this place thing. Stop complaining about how the VOLUNTEERS to run this place, run it. Unless you have a valid complaint, then do what Mr Burrows said, PM the Site Owner..


PS-Kyle, I got a good chuckle out of your use of the word tomfoolery

 

[FredDaHead]

Appropriate action was taken. That is that. If you genuinley have an issue with how this is situation was delt with, I will walk down the hall and ask for Col Armstong for his email, so you can personally voice your complaints.

Freddy G, dude, chill out. Judging by your profile, well lack of. I will assume you are in cadets, thus your interest in this forum. You have been here since 2001, so longer then me, though you dont seem to get the just of the whole, being nice to the random people that run this place thing. Stop complaining about how the VOLUNTEERS to run this place, run it. Unless you have a valid complaint, then do what Mr Burrows said, PM the Site Owner..


PS-Kyle, I got a good chuckle out of your use of the word tomfoolery

In addition to the PM I sent you, I'd like to point out that piling on after a mod has dealt with the situation is generally frowned upon. I'm nice to most of the random people who run this place and I have nothing but the utmost respect for Mr. Bobbitt (I hope I spelled that right...), and while maybe I don't get the jist of being nice to everyone, I do get the jist of not trying to do the mod's job after they've already done it.

 

[aesop081]

Is this all going somewhere thats worth the bandwith ?

army.ca staff