Cadet Videos on You Tube

[foerestedwarrior]

You have hit the nail on the head here. Yes the cadets in question will be delt with. The greater issue is the supervision while the cadets have firearms(deactivated or not), well lack thereoff. If there was supervision while this happened, even worse so. I am all for the kids having a good time, but you have to be smart about what fun entails.

 

[medaid]

It doesn't matter, but the firearms they were using are DP rifles which have been dewatted.

That's right it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter that idiots are being shot by LEOs, because they've got Air Soft or other 1:1 ratio weapon replicas. Ya... I don't think so.

Back when I was in Cadets, if anyone of them fooled around with a weapon like that, they would've had a very angry, and very loud F/Sgt in their face asking them what they were doing.

I'm sorry, but it seems the level of supervision has definitely gone down over the years. This is only my point of view but the quality of CIC officers have also declined. When I worked with some cadet units, I found a general lack of respect for the uniform. Lack of deportment with the uniform and an over all general lacking of the 3Ds. The cadets learn from the staff that supervise them. If the staff are slack and idle the cadets will pick up on that, and take full advantage of the situation.

What really annoyed me was that these 'cadets' were on a Senior Leadership course. Obviously SLC has changed over the years... I just cant believe that this happened. Very VERY disappointed.

 

[stealthylizard]

It was a seniors leader course judging by the title of the video.  Even when I was in cadets we didn't have this stuff going on, even without adult supervision.  The senior NCM's played the role of adult.  Lead by example.  Sure there was things that still went on that probably shouldn't have, but nothing on this kind of scale.  We didn't have the ability to post them on the internet either.  This kind of thing will ruin the future careers of many, especially those that were looking forward to a life in the military, as this will go into their permanent records.  It may even lead to criminal charges.  All because of the relative immaturity of a few fools, this is why so many military applications have been taken away from the general cadet training curriculum.

 

[Jaydub]

The video in question seems to have been removed.  That's probably a good thing.

 

[Mike Baker]

The video in question seems to have been removed.  That's probably a good thing.

Yeah I noticed that. Good thing I guess.

 

[GGHG_Cadet]

Out of curiosity, where was this? I'm assuming, judging from the different 'unit's present and the type of weapon and the location, it was a regional drill competition or something along those lines?

It was in Borden, on a certain cadet corps' annual JLC/SLC March Break leadership week. There were several cadets corps involved from two or three different units.

 

[ryanmann356]

The video in question seems to have been removed.  That's probably a good thing.

spooked somebody.  What happened in the video? 
It seems like anything can get posted on youtube without fear of consequences, and they like to hide behind free speech.  Same thing with facebook and nexopia etc.. But where do you draw the line? 

 

[rwgill]

Received this memo today, and it has made it to general circulation:

All,

If you have not seen this video, it is definitely inappropriate and presents the wrong image of what the cadet movement is all about. As fallout discussion ended up at the Bde Comd level, and our Comd was made aware, I engaged him today regarding my response. We will not be taking disciplinary action against the cadets, but rather counselling. More importantly, we must educate our cadets, and all those involved with the cadet movement, of the serious consequences such inappropriate actions could have. This event, along with questionable Facebook postings, drives home the point that this is not an isolated incident. Until we can get something more formal promulgated, all units must be advised as expeditiously as possible that every effort must be made to prevent such an event, to include the public posting of the activity, from occurring again. Depending on the situation and circumstances, disciplinary action may be appropriate in the future.

M.B. Armstrong
LCol
CO RCSU (C)

 

[FredDaHead]

They're not punishing people for repeated offenses? They might be kids, but if you don't spank a naughty kid, he'll learn it's fine to do whatever he or she wants.

 

[rwgill]

They're not punishing people for repeated offenses?

By They're, I assume that you mean LCol Armstrong and the Bde Comd.

They might be kids, but if you don't spank a naughty kid, he'll learn it's fine to do whatever he or she wants.

Unfortunately, not all kids are aware of all of the rules. 

In this case, the decision has been made:

1.  Make cadets aware of the rules.

2.  If problem occurs after rules have been explained, then discipline.

I am not aware if the individual cadets/officers/staff/units have been disciplined already....................before this memo was released.  What is the sense of being punished more then once, for one offence?  There are rules against that.

 

[FredDaHead]

Unfortunately, not all kids are aware of all of the rules. 

In this case, the decision has been made:

1.  Make cadets aware of the rules.

2.  If problem occurs after rules have been explained, then discipline.

I am not aware if the individual cadets/officers/staff/units have been disciplined already....................before this memo was released.  What is the sense of being punished more then once, for one offence?  There are rules against that.

The memo was explicit in saying they have NOT been punished. At all. There is definately a large problem if kids are handling weapons without knowing the rules. Adults get various rules drilled into their heads when we get our rifles at the Mega; kids need even more teaching. However, the fact that they were not smart enough and didn't have enough common sense to realize that doing "room clearing" with what appears to any observer to be actual weapons, let alone the completely irresponsible treatment of "prisoners," as was pointed out earlier, on a leadership course, means they should be disciplined. If it was little kids who had just gotten in, I'd see it sliding off, but not for cadets who are supposed to be leaders.

 

[Munxcub]

...
Unfortunately, not all kids are aware of all of the rules. 
...

Last I checked ignorance was not a valid defense. If I get pulled over for speeding and say "Oh sorry officer, I didn't see the sign that said 30Km/h... the last one I saw said 80. My bad..." Would I get away with it? I have my doubts...

 

[p_imbeault]

I think they should be made an example of, the fact that they did it was bad, but posting it on the internet to boot? They knew exactly what they were doing, it even looked to be rehearsed somewhat. I'd like to know where the officers or staff cadets were when all this was going on?
Letting them get away with a warning doesn't make any sense, they were taking a leadership course. Are these the types of teen leaders you want incharge of a group of young impressionable cadets?

I've seen alot of stupid things done by a small percentage of cadets when unsupervised but this tops it, very unfortunate incident

 

[Burrows]

Something to think about:

A lot of these kids come from varying family backgrounds.  Many of these families may not teach their children ethics or senses of right and wrong appropriately.  It is the job of the CCM to develop the youth in their charge and because this was allowed to happen at all, it is the fault of the supervising officers on the exercise.

I'm not approving of what the cadets in question did, but pulling out the guillotine for an offense that hasn't really been touched on is a bit much.  Desire to make an example or not, the cadets must always be the main priority of the CCM, and to this extent all fairness must be given.

Correct and develop, don't punish and leave in the dirt.

 

[stealthylizard]

There is probably more to the background of the activities in the video which we do not know about.  That might explain the reason why no discliplinary methods will be handed out.  All we saw was a video.  It is kind of like the media just showing part of it, and ignoring the rest.

 

[FredDaHead]

There is probably more to the background of the activities in the video which we do not know about.  That might explain the reason why no discliplinary methods will be handed out.  All we saw was a video.  It is kind of like the media just showing part of it, and ignoring the rest.

Background like that? The cadets in question knew what they were doing, they knew that they were "getting away with it" because the instructors weren't around. What more is there to know? That's like saying a murderer might not be such a bad person, because we don't know their background.

Kyle,

It seems like you're blaming everyone BUT the cadets who messed up. Part of developping the youth and teaching them right and wrong and how to deal with things, is teaching them to deal with their mistakes. Besides, they were on a leadership course, they should have had a sense of right and wrong already.

I don't think they should be criminally charged and dismissed from the cadets and all, but they should definately have a black spot on their record and possibly a reduction in rank so that they don't lead impressionable younger cadets before they themselves have matured enough.

 

[Mike Baker]

I don't think they should be criminally charged and dismissed from the cadets and all, but they should definately have a black spot on their record and possibly a reduction in rank so that they don't lead impressionable younger cadets before they themselves have matured enough.

+1. This may also detere any other Cadets trying to do things that they know is not right.

 

[p_imbeault]

Something to think about:

A lot of these kids come from varying family backgrounds.  Many of these families may not teach their children ethics or senses of right and wrong appropriately.

Family background has very little if anything to do with it, I've got friends in the program that have a far from perfect family standings but the minute they are not being supervised they don't act like this. These young adults are just as responsible for they're actions as the staff who left them unsupervised. I don't believe we should drag there names in the mud and kick them out of the program, but some consequences should be given for their actions.

 

[rwgill]

The memo was explicit in saying they have NOT been punished. At all. There is definately a large problem if kids are handling weapons without knowing the rules. Adults get various rules drilled into their heads when we get our rifles at the Mega; kids need even more teaching. However, the fact that they were not smart enough and didn't have enough common sense to realize that doing "room clearing" with what appears to any observer to be actual weapons, let alone the completely irresponsible treatment of "prisoners," as was pointed out earlier, on a leadership course, means they should be disciplined. If it was little kids who had just gotten in, I'd see it sliding off, but not for cadets who are supposed to be leaders.

Re-read the memo.  It says WE, refering to the CO RCSU and the Bde Comd.  This does not suggest that the individual cadets have not been disciplined already. 

For those not aware, each and every individual cadet was identified.

Kyle is absolutely correct: Correct and develop, don't punish and leave in the dirt. 

Ignorance is not an excuse.  What many cadets have a hard time dealing with is civilian vs cadet time.  When do we switch on, when do we switch off?  It can be very difficult for a young mind to understand.

The actions being taken are appropriate.  The counselling required is in refernce to CATO 11-07.  It's more about posting any video than posting a bad video.  This also includes forum boards, flickr, photobucket, myspace and facebook. 

The contents of the video, I am more than positive, have been dealt with in an appropraite manner.  The fact that a memo says "WE WILL NOT BE TAKING DISCIPLINARY ACTION" does not suggest that it has already been done.  The memo was released on 26 Apr 07, the process began on or before 22 Apr 07.

 

[Burrows]

Background like that? The cadets in question knew what they were doing, they knew that they were "getting away with it" because the instructors weren't around. What more is there to know? That's like saying a murderer might not be such a bad person, because we don't know their background.

Kyle,

It seems like you're blaming everyone BUT the cadets who messed up. Part of developping the youth and teaching them right and wrong and how to deal with things, is teaching them to deal with their mistakes. Besides, they were on a leadership course, they should have had a sense of right and wrong already.

I don't think they should be criminally charged and dismissed from the cadets and all, but they should definately have a black spot on their record and possibly a reduction in rank so that they don't lead impressionable younger cadets before they themselves have matured enough.

Pulling a punishment out of a hat, while one may feel it is warranted isn't a truly just way of handling something.  Cadets is an organization that focuses on developing youth, not slapping them down for doing something wrong.  The issue is being resolved by the CO of the RCSU and the Bde Comd and we should leave it at that.  People with far more years under their belts than you or I are much more capable of making the decision.

Not every situation needs to have a hollywood ending with the criminal being drummed out of the corps.  Would you rather not have a cadet see the error of his ways and reform than be bitter towards the system and leave it?

A lot of what occurs relates to home life more than people may think as well.  I personally have met some cadets with terrible home lives who do need proactive correction to help them adjust to a normal society.  I have noticed that cadets with less than average home lives tend to cause a lot more of the discipline issues for reasons that could be as simple as them not having spent several formative years of their lives with strong adult influence.

Well said rwgill.