Cadet Smoking
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Probably not, as kids are not required to take responsibility for their own actions. Kids a smoker? Daddy never played catch in the yard. Daughter's a crack head? Mommy never hugged her enough. In the end, it really is the parents fault, that'll teach em for having kids.
the_midge said:
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Yeah well,
My parents did none of the crap below. They were awesome parents.
I smoked (still do) as a kid. Camp Argonaut picture book of 1982 actually has a pic of me with a smoke hanging out of my mouth --- I was PERI Staff then.
Go figure. I was young. My parents and their parenting skills had zilch to do with it. They sure as heck were not privvy to the fact that I smoked.
Do I condone cadets smoking now? No. Do you have any legal authority to tell them they can't have a smoke (provided they want to have one in a place where smoking is allowed and not disallowed by legislation etc)? No. Would I make different choices now than I did then? Yes.
It's not illegal for them to posess them. It's not illegal for them to smoke them. That's the law. The best you can do is discourage it, and educate them as to it's dangers and risks, and make it very difficult for them to find an area where smoking is designated. And, be careful at that --- doing that continuously (and this continuous anti-smoking chant given daily, sometimes more often than once -- usually comes from "reformed smokers" too, who can be quite righteous & condescending from my experience) can be taken to be harassment exactly because whether you agree with them smoking, or not, it's a legal activity for them to undertake. The law says so. In the end, it's all you can do --- because they get to make the choice still vice having the government make it for them.
Unless and until the law changes ... it's all just "strongly discouraged".
My parents did none of the crap below. They were awesome parents.
I smoked (still do) as a kid. Camp Argonaut picture book of 1982 actually has a pic of me with a smoke hanging out of my mouth --- I was PERI Staff then.
Go figure. I was young. My parents and their parenting skills had zilch to do with it. They sure as heck were not privvy to the fact that I smoked.
Do I condone cadets smoking now? No. Do you have any legal authority to tell them they can't have a smoke (provided they want to have one in a place where smoking is allowed and not disallowed by legislation etc)? No. Would I make different choices now than I did then? Yes.
It's not illegal for them to posess them. It's not illegal for them to smoke them. That's the law. The best you can do is discourage it, and educate them as to it's dangers and risks, and make it very difficult for them to find an area where smoking is designated. And, be careful at that --- doing that continuously (and this continuous anti-smoking chant given daily, sometimes more often than once -- usually comes from "reformed smokers" too, who can be quite righteous & condescending from my experience) can be taken to be harassment exactly because whether you agree with them smoking, or not, it's a legal activity for them to undertake. The law says so. In the end, it's all you can do --- because they get to make the choice still vice having the government make it for them.
Unless and until the law changes ... it's all just "strongly discouraged".
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HFXCrow said:
Different times then too. The pic was taken just prior to my giving them (B Coy - CLI Course) a warm up and taking them for a Coy run through the lovely Burton Orchards/Lindsey Valley.
Your question is interesting.
You can't sell them smokes onboard. You can't give them smokes on board. That's illegal.
But, if they have smokes with them when they arrive -- their possession of them is entirely legal, as is their smoking of them. As far as I am aware, there is no law that says they need their parents permission to smoke, although many schools etc are putting these little caveats in place. Not like most youth have enough funds to back up a legal complaint/challenge to little infringements such as that on their legal right to smoke. So entities get away with making those caveats. We justify that by calling it "discouragement from smoking". I could be wrong on this point though. But, if they have smokes with them when they get there, AND have a parental permission slip as CATOs state --- then I don't think one could do a damn thing to stop them, or to discourage them from exercising their right to smoke in a designated area. You could only "strongly discourage it".
I'd say that legally, if you have a designated smoking area on board -- and a cadet sparked up a smoke while there, he'd have done absolutely nothing wrong ... and there would be no legal punishment etc that could be imposed.
I suppose though, you could put inforce a "no cadets in the designated smoking area policy", but then a cadet on his break would still be well within his legal rights to say: "I smoke, it's not illegal, I'm on my break, I want one --- please point me to the area where I am allowed to have one; or are you going to deny me my legal right to have one?" Techniclly, you'd then give him the usual "it's not good for you business" ... but legally, you couldn't stop him from lighting one in that designated smoking area if he wanted to. Just as you couldn't stop an adult from doing so, because it is legal for both the adult and the cadet to posess them ... and to smoke them.
Not pretty, but fact.
Now, all that said --- do I agree with kids smoking? No. If I could turn back the clocks -- I would.
If we don't want kids to smoke though, then the government has to get off it's ass and make it illegal for them to posess them, and to smoke them. Why hasn't that already been done? I highly suspect it's because of the sheer volume of tax dollars coming in that they'd lose out on. That's my suspicion precisely because --- they've already made it illegal for underage kids to posess or drink alcohol ... what the hell is the holdup with smokes?
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Thank you for your insightful response-->AV.
I am going to call AJAG on Monday and see what there stance on the issue is.
Personally, I am a non-smoker and would not like to see Cadets smoking. (as I have a tweenaged daughter)
But that's my opinion only.
I will provide an update based on the results I get.
Crow
I am going to call AJAG on Monday and see what there stance on the issue is.
Personally, I am a non-smoker and would not like to see Cadets smoking. (as I have a tweenaged daughter)
But that's my opinion only.
I will provide an update based on the results I get.
Crow
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Kat Stevens said:
I guess to make it super obvious that I was being facetious, here ya go, :
: enjoy the rest of your Saturday
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Kat Stevens said:I guess to make it super obvious that I was being facetious, here ya go, :
Uhhmm, I knew that.
That's exactly why I posted that my parents had SFA to do with my smoking and that it was my choice/mistake. It does get tiring watching people blame their habits/problems on other people.
You enjoy your Saturday too.
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Not all governments have ducked the issue. In Alberta, it is an offence for anyone under the age of 18 to possess, smoke or consume in any other manner, a tobacco product, unless they are participating in an aboriginal spiritual ceremony, a sales clerk engaged in the act of selling tobacco or they are acting in the capacity of assisting an inspector. See Prevention of Youth Tobacco Use Act.
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garb811 said:
Then someone needs to take a spin past the local high school here.
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Kat Stevens said:
Local High Schools.
The one here banned all smoking on school district property. So now, all the kids just walk accross the street onto the sidewalks and smoke in everyone else's front yards (well on their sidewalks anyway).
The town even came along and threw up a couple of gazebos, with garbage cans to accomodate them. I guess, that's better than having all their trash and butts littered along the sidewalks and everyone else's front lawns.
:-\
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bwatch said:
the same ones who send their kid to cadets as a source of "free baby sitting" i'll wager....
aka, not very good ones...
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When I was at TACC, or was it TACSTC, whatever the name was then, there was a smokers square. You needed permission to smoke in it, I had none, yet I was in there anyway. Also, to supplement my income I would sell smokes to other cadets. I made a personal record that camp, $5 for a single smoke, and that was 1995 prices. In the stores then you could get a pack for $3.25! I for one wouldn't stop a cadet from smoking, but I wouldn't encourage it. They'd get the same speech, but only once, and that would be it.
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bwatch said:
Does it really surprise you that parents would let their kids smoke?? I know parents who BUY their kids smokes for them. It's sad.
This is not an issue in most provinces. The program must follow the regulations as they apply in the various jurisdictions.
The national policy is outlined in CATO 13-22
http://www.cadets.ca/_docs/cato-oaic/1322_b.pdf
Here is how it applies in B.C.
http://www.cadets.net/pac/news-nouvelles/pdf/backgrounders05/BGtobacco.pdf
The national policy is outlined in CATO 13-22
http://www.cadets.ca/_docs/cato-oaic/1322_b.pdf
Here is how it applies in B.C.
http://www.cadets.net/pac/news-nouvelles/pdf/backgrounders05/BGtobacco.pdf
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The policy is mostly a recognition of reality. Possession in most provinces is not illegal, it's the sale that is. So the policy merely encourages "discouragement" except in areas where there is no conflict (such as banning smoking on cadet/gov facilities). In those cases it's not the possession that's forbidden, but the lighting up.
Back when I did staff in Vernon in '96, our company CO signed the "no smoking allowed" section of the ID for all the cadets, and "smoking allowed" for all the staff, regardless of whether they had letters from parents.
Back when I did staff in Vernon in '96, our company CO signed the "no smoking allowed" section of the ID for all the cadets, and "smoking allowed" for all the staff, regardless of whether they had letters from parents.
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