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Buying/selling Medals Superthread [merged]

Hi everyone,

What are your opinions on selling war parafernelia and veterans medals and awards? I noticed there were some posted on ebay for 25$. Do you think this is ethical and do you really feel you can put a price on this?
 
Yes it is ethical.

Yes, a price can be put on them.  Generally, it is a buyer's market, meaning a seller can charge whatever he thinks someone is willing to pay.
 
I think it's really sad. I hate seeing medals for sale (war medals, I mean), especially if you consider that not all are being sold by third parties (ie-surplus store). I find it most sad when I hear of vets selling their medals so they can eat.

Mind you, if I was to see a CPSM for sale, somehow I wouldn't be bothered as much by that.
 
So, what would you like to see done with such medals? Sent to museums to sit in dusty back rooms (more often than not) because there's already one on display? Thrown away by families who have lost interest, or by the estate when the last descendant dies, which may well be the result without a 'market' that gives them 'value.' Collectors take care of these medals, they research them and they help to protect and share the heritage they represent. Many of these items, including many currently in museums, would not exist if there wasn't a prevailing interest in collecting them.

And if a current CPSM, which may well have been awarded to a living soldier, doesn't bother you, what about a medal presented to someone long dead, who's family didn't bother to protect and save it?

There are enough comments on this board deploring the lack of interest and concern in our military and our military history by the public. Let's not denigrate a group that is interested and is willing to spend their own money to collect and protect the memoribilia of that heritage.
 
Whoa! I didn't mean to strike such a nerve Michael.

I was thinking more of 2 scenarios:

1-vet sells medals to eat. It's not what happens to the medals that bothers me, it's the fact he couldn't afford to keep them.

2-Either a vets family hawks them to a pawn shop thinking their worthless, or a vet has his home broken into, and the shitrat hawks them.

I wasn't clear enough, obviously.

I obviously don't have a problem wiht the legitimate aquisition of medals by museums or Regimental Associations, and I do appreciate the interest the public has in their nations heros.

'nuff said.
 
When my Grandmother was in a hursing home she had a number of things stolen from her by the staff, which we didn't discover until she died.  Things like her jewelry (which really wasn't valuable, just sentimental) money....and my Grandfather's medals.  Nice huh?  Nothing you would fetch a large sum of money for, but things that meant something to the family.
 
Veterans back MP's move to protect war medals

Canadian Press  Halifax â ” It's been almost 60 years since Second World War veteran Reid Myers felt the heat of combat.

But his voice breaks with emotion when he tries to explain what the row of carefully polished war medals on his chest means to him.

â Å“I carry a lot of respect. . . . I know that I'll always remember my fallen comrades,â ? he said.

Mr. Myers, 82, of Fall River, N.S., was among 13 war veterans who turned out Wednesday to support Halifax-area MP Peter Stoffer's quest to make the sale of war decorations illegal.

Mr. Myers, who served in Europe with the 4th Armoured Division, said his medals mean more to him now than they did when he was younger.

â Å“It seems to affect you more later in life because you were too busy back then to think about it â ” being young and vibrant,â ? he said.

Mr. Stoffer, a New Democrat, plans to introduce a private member's bill in the House of Commons in February to coincide with the Year of the Veteran.

He said the move was inspired by a recent public campaign to prevent the sale of a Victoria Cross to a British collector.

Canadians raised $300,000 to keep the medal at home.

Mr. Stoffer said preventing the sale of symbols is a matter of respect for veterans and their service to Canada.

â Å“The medals that the men and women wear are not currency,â ? he said at a news conference.

While private members' bills rarely succeed in becoming legislation, Mr. Stoffer said he's optimistic this one will gain the support of all MPs.

â Å“There's nothing wrong with the idea being taken by the government and have them run with it, which is something I would encourage,â ? he said.

George Atwood, 84, also a veteran of action overseas with the 4th Armoured Division, knows it's an uphill battle to get a new law in place.

â Å“Canadians are more aware than they were even six months ago, but I think it's still going to take a lot of education,â ? said Atwood, of Sackville, N.S.

Under current legislation, veterans are not permitted to sell their medals, but they can be sold by family members who inherit them.

 
It sounds like a good idea but what happens if people go underground to sell them, and then no one would know. The way we have it now at least we can stop medal sales by purchasing them.
 
I cherish my relitives medals which I jealously guard (from both WW1 and WW2), Even down to the German EKII's taken off PWs, sometime after D-Day. I will never sell them.

Personally, I think its in bad taste to sell such things, but in reality we cannot stop the sale of private property like medals and war souviners can we? However we can regulate the wearing of them, to stop posers and wannabees, but these blokes are all in their late 70's and 80s now, and should their families decide to sell/donate/give their medals after they have passed on, to another party, thats just how it is.

Sometimes it ensures they go to a proper private collection, rather than to a dirty pawn shop. Not all museums etc will buy generic war medals, with the exception in certain cases. If I remember right WW2 campaign medals are un-named, as compared to WW1 and before, which are all named, so tracking the WW2 ones would be very difficult. Look at Canada's gun registry for example, and we all know the disaster that is.

I can genuinely understand the concern from these Veterans, and I have the highest respect for them at all times, no matter what their opinions are, after all they moulded our Canada and other countries from a war not so long ago, and its because of them, we are here today.

I do not believe this law will be passed, but I understsand the genuine concern for the Vets.

My 2 cents.

Cheers,

Wes
 
Surprised no one posted about this; much coverage in the papers and on CTV last night.  EDIT by Moderator - this is the merge point; obviously this had been posted previously by Bill Smy but I missed it. 

Here is the scoop, as I see it.

A little fish in the NDP was approached by some WW II veterans to ask about a bill to prohibit the sale of Canadian medals.

Now, the NDA does have a clause where serving members cannot sell their medals (a holdover from the days of guys selling kit for beer money, I suppose), but says nothing about veterans.  (The news seem to have gotten this wrong, saying that vets are prohibited from selling their medals; I don't see that as being the case).

The bill proposed by this NDP dude will prevent families from selling medals.

Why?

This NDPer went on TV with 13 veterans (all 80 years old it looked like) and tried to present this as a great service for the veterans.

Let's read between the lines here.  Topham's VC g0es up for grabs, and a public outcry tries to raise 300,000 to keep it in Canada.  They suceeded, but at some point the Government stepped in to pledge to top up the fund.  I believe it wasn't necessary in the end, but how would the NDP feel about that?

What happens next time there is a hue and cry about something like this?  Take 300,000 dollars and promote the military with it?  That's money they could spend on furthering their ideas of a social utopia!

Worse, the Topham family benefited directly from the sale - the money did not go into a trust fund, it went into the Topham family pockets!  What if government money had been used?

Solution:  ban the sale of medals outright!  End of problem.

My question is - how would the veterans benefit from such legislation?  They have the option to sell, or keep, their own medals.

What harm could come from this?

Plenty.

a) loss of freedom, for one, plus a slipperly slope where other types of militaria may be similarly "protected".  Want to buy a cap badge from your grandfather's regiment?  Might be against the law next.

b) if there are no outlets for "disposal" of medals when veterans die, simply may simply get pitched out by families unaware of what they represent or uninterested

c) giving away medals would still be protected, but to whom would you give them?  Museums have piles of 5-medal WW II racks (39-45 Star, Defence Medal, War Medal, CVSM, France-Germany Star).  Let's not forget the Canadian War Museum in fact LOST one of our Victoria Crosses.  Collectors care for medals just as well as museums; sometimes even more, as they will go and do the research on medal groups, get photos and documents - museums don't have the time to do what with all their medal groups

I can't see a single reason to ban the sale of medals, nor do I think this legislation would help veterans one single iota.  It seems to me to be a way to get the Government off the hook for future medal buying obligations forced on them by the public who want to see VCs and other important artifacts remain in Canadian hands.

Other opinions?
 
Possibly change it to only include racks (I don't know the proper term) that include certain medals such as the Victoria Cross.
 
vangemeren said:
Possibly change it to only include racks (I don't know the proper term) that include certain medals such as the Victoria Cross.

Why have a ban at all?
 
Much a do about nothing. I am amazed at the speed these meaningless bills get developed and passed.

It would be nice to see the NDP stand beside current members of the CF and demand better base housing. Alas, the veterans were merely a backdrop for a photo op and press release.
 
A ban on the sale of personal property is fundamentally wrong.

Typical NDP "diaper" politics; you don't know any better so big government will do it for you.

I hope Jack Layton comes to try and take my guns too.... :threat:
 
I agree that certain medals should not be for sale. The US has decreed that the Congressional Medal of Honour (CMH) can not be sold, why can we not have the same law here.

The gimme medals such as UN, NATO, and Service medals (CD, 125, Queen Jubilee) that there are hundreds of, can and should be traded for currency.

More prestigious medals like the VC, Star of Courage, Medal of Bravery, IMO should not.
 
Again, why not?  Should Ford Tempo's be permitted for sale at the auction, but Ferrari's restricted by the government?

These medals are the personal property of whoever is awarded them - why the government needs to tell them how they are to be able to with their personal effects is beyond me.  If I felt like throwing my two gongs in the garbage today, I don't see why it should be a matter of government legislation.
 
Exactly.  The medals are awarded to individuals in reckognition of their performance.  They're not a loan, they're an award.  Saying that the government should have control over them cheapens the whole idea behind then.  It's like they're saying "yeah you did a wonderful job, so here you can hang on to this piece of metal for a while".
 
Having a little experience here, but not much, I'd like to point out that not many "Medal Recipients" have sold their medals for 'profit'.  A few, some of relative significance, have done so in hard times, but on a whole, most have not sold their medals and/or awards.  I have seen cases where the immediate family, the children of an Award Winner, have seen no value in keeping the medals or awards, but the Grand children have.  

I look on these medals and awards as being part of our nations history.  As Canada has signed an International Treaty on the protection of Cultural Property, I believe that we should be protecting these medals and awards and keeping them in Canada.  Should they be put up for sale, they should not be sold outside of Canada.

To me the sale of medals for profit just rubs me the wrong way, but I can see where Infanteer is coming from also.  In many cases, museums do not have the funding to give medals the attention that a few collectors may.  It is a tough call.

GW
 
If the Government of Canada wishes to make medals some form of cultural property, they should award themselves the Victoria Cross and put it on display for all to see....
 
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