Boot, General Purpose (Mk III acting/interim replacement)

[RCR Grunt]

Vern,

Can you define the "L" in LPO for us?  I know its local, but how local?  Within 25 clicks of the base?  50?  100?  1000?  Within Canada?  I think if a member has been prescribed a type of footwear, why should the supply chain decide if he is going to get his prescription filled or not?  If you can't purchase the product locally, expand the definition of local till you can.  Saves the CF money, because the member gets what he needs the first time around.  Saves the member time and pain, because he only has to deal with the system once to get his chit filled properly.  If its a matter of trying the boot on, then the system becomes necessary, every one makes a different size 9.  But if the soldier already has said boot, and knows his size, ordering outside the normal parameters of the word "local" should not be an issue.  The unwillingness of the supply chain to bend the rules to allow soldiers to carry on with their jobs seems ridiculous to me.  I mean no offense to anyone by this, it just seems silly is all.

 

[armyvern]

I am guess you are going to tell me to go to the MO and try and get this sorted somehow and I thinking that is my best bet. Unless you have a better idea?

HitorMiss, go to see your MO and ask him to write one out that says:

"Requires mesh-sided boots due to medical condition." You should then not experience any problems. I have sent many pers back to the MIR here when they have been here on course (ask medicineman!!!) and require their boots exchanged for new LPOd footwear when they have stated that the ones they have (and that work for them) are mesh-sided. Usually they are back to us the same day, with a new chit reading "mesh-sided" signed off by an MO. If the style of boot they wear is available here locally, our Sup Tech calls down to the supplier, and our LPO driver runs into town to pick them up for the student.

If the boot is not available locally, we try to obtain them as a "special-order" from one of the boot suppliers. Of course, this can't always be done, so sometimes we end up going to another Base where they are available and getting them shipped into us ... but that, of course, causes delays to the student.

Grunt,

You are not RTFOO I think thats the best idea I have heard reference this issue for a long time. No need to F**K around wth this and that, clothing has your size either running shoe or CF boot size and they place an orde 3-5 days later BAM! you have boots for the member no fuss no muss.

No, he's not RTFOO. But, LPOd footwear is paid for by the members home unit, using home unit fin coding. For students here in Gagetown who present with new chits, we fire off an email to the Clothing Stores of their Home Unit asking for fin code to purchase. We'll do the purchasing, but your base needs to authorize us in writing to spend their money to do it. As soon as we've got that from them ... we place your order. We do our best to get you what you need, as quickly as we can. But, some bases have been known to come back with a "Nope, funding NOT authorized -- he should have came in to see us before he left for course to make sure his kit was good to go as per his joining instructions." We can fight back, sometimes we win the fight -- sometimes we don't.

(Now you know what the Sup Techs are doing behind the scenes of a process that all seems so simple to you ... sarcasm off. But when it's another Base Commanders money that he is accountable for ... well what can a mere Cpl Sup Tech working the CSG counter do?? )

In cases like that, our hands are tied.

Which is exactly why:

(I say again over) Nothing short of an annual allowance given to each member to purchase their own properly fitting, and what works-for-them footwear will suffice.

This ensures that you, no matter where you are ... have that ability to order the boots you need, want, and require quickly and effeciently to enable you to accomplish your job; whether that be via the internet or in a local store, or whatever.

You'll just get your money each year, no muss -- no fuss, and have the ability to get your own on-line within that 2 days or whatever (because when taxpayers money and other Base's money is getting spent it's just not as easy as it -- because you don't see the system red-tape that we Sup Techs need to chew at in the background of the whole process -- is for you sitting at home or in your room in the shacks).

 

[armyvern]

Vern,

Can you define the "L" in LPO for us?  I know its local, but how local?  Within 25 clicks of the base?  50?  100?  1000?  Within Canada?  I think if a member has been prescribed a type of footwear, why should the supply chain decide if he is going to get his prescription filled or not?  If you can't purchase the product locally, expand the definition of local till you can.  Saves the CF money, because the member gets what he needs the first time around.  Saves the member time and pain, because he only has to deal with the system once to get his chit filled properly.  If its a matter of trying the boot on, then the system becomes necessary, every one makes a different size 9.  But if the soldier already has said boot, and knows his size, ordering outside the normal parameters of the word "local" should not be an issue.  The unwillingness of the supply chain to bend the rules to allow soldiers to carry on with their jobs seems ridiculous to me.  I mean no offense to anyone by this, it just seems silly is all.

Re-read my posts. The Supply chain did not decide. It was medical direction from Ottawa that decided that physiotherapists ARE NOT QUALIFIED to prescribe (ie: CAN NOT prescribe) "mesh-sided" boots; it certainly isn't us mere Sup Techs refusing to get your "prescription" filled. Nor is it the Supply Chain refusing to bend the rules. It is Treasury Board Canada regulations -- ie The Law in this country (as auditable by the Auditor General) -- why can't some of you seem to be able to get past that fact and acknowledge that us Sup Techs are not just here to screw you over repeatedly, and that, as a matter of fact, some of us go to extreme lengths to try and look after soldiers??

LPO= Local Purchase Order: Local?? Why?? Because how can we order you something on-line and have it shipped in if you've never tried the darn thing on your foot to know if it's comfortable, fits properly etc. It's taxpayers money. The Crown demands that when we spend it, we ensure it is spent with all due process ensuring that it is not wasted (ie getting in a couple of pairs of 300 dollar boots you've never tried on your feet and walked around in -- only to find out when they arrive that they don't work for you).

If they are not available locally, and you have already tried them on/been LPO'd them at another base etc, we DO our best to get them here for you (if your Base says OK to give us the fin coding) ... but I've already said that, apparently you missed it.

 

[RCR Grunt]

I know LPO = Local Purcahse Order.

How local is local?

Its a serious question and I don't think it requires a sassy reply, I seriously want to know. 

By sassy I mean "... but I've already said that, apparently you missed it."

 

[HItorMiss]

So how about this then Vern, I get the MO to sign off on MESH sided boots... But my Converse Boots which I know work for me are not available localy. Because I have tried them on and know my size and how they fit and the money is authorised to be spent clothing will go "Online" topurchase the boots I already know work? Or will they send me to the local boot store to get boots which I have not idea will work and they might again see me in 2 weeks to buy yet another set of boots.

I am hoping I am clear in what I am asking?

 

[armyvern]

So how about this then Vern, I get the MO to sign off on MESH sided boots... But my Converse Boots which I know work for me are not available localy. Because I have tried them on and know my size and how they fit and the money is authorised to be spent clothing will go "Online" topurchase the boots I already know work? Or will they send me to the local boot store to get boots which I have not idea will work and they might again see me in 2 weeks to buy yet another set of boots.

I am hoping I am clear in what I am asking?

Yes go to the MO and get that chit.

Explain to clothing that you have already worn & used the Converse boots and that they worked for you. If you ordered them from the web, take them the web-address and give them the model number, style and size. They will probably contact local suppliers with those details to see if any of them can special order them for you, if not, they'll probably attempt to contact your given "Source of Supply" provided to obtain them for you.

At least, that's how we work here.

 

[armyvern]

I know LPO = Local Purcahse Order.

How local is local?

Its a serious question and I don't think it requires a sassy reply, I seriously want to know. 

By sassy I mean "... but I've already said that, apparently you missed it."

Re-read my previous ... I've already stated that we will go out and attempt to get them for you via net, other Base etc. I've also explained why that can't be done if you've never used that boot before.

By sassy, do you mean like your "sarcasm off" comment earlier?? Ironic that.

Your points are all good. But we sup techs get to see what happens behind the scenes and deal with it, when it seems so straight forward to those not making it happen. The federal purchasing regulations are never fun to deal with at the best of times. All we can do, is our best to make it happen. Sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't. It is not for lack of trying, caring, or giving a shit though.

99.9999% of Sup Techs I know are fully aware of the problems with footwear and the system red-tape involved that is well beyond our (or the CFs, actually) control.

We managed to fix that with the BTU allowance, the same thing needs to occur with footwear.

 

[HItorMiss]

And that answers what I needed to know in full reference buying them off the web and not simply being told nope we can't get those here so you have to go try other boots till you find some.

Thanks Vern I have my mission for Monday.

 

[armyvern]

And that answers what I needed to know in full reference buying them off the web and not simply being told nope we can't get those here so you have to go try other boots till you find some.

Thanks Vern I have my mission for Monday.

If the Sup Tech at the counter tells you "nope we can't get them here" so you can't have them, ask to see the Clothing Supervisor and explain the situation to them.

I know what I'd do for you here, but I can't speak for what the CSG supervisors action would be there. It can be done. There's no reason for them not to attempt to do it; it's common sense. I wish you well.

 

[armyvern]

Ohh,

Thanks for that little vote you just gave me!! 

Please feel free to do so again in 5 hours.  ;D

 

[HItorMiss]

Vern

Grunt asked a question and you never answered it and I really curious now too, How Local is the term local in LPO? 100km, 50km?

 

[armyvern]

Vern

Grunt asked a question and you never answered it and I really curious now too, How Local is the term local in LPO? 100km, 50km?

I answered him via PM D.

But just for you ... local means purchased locally ... as close to home as possible.

Do we get things from across Canada, well we could, and we have.

Most things, however, have a source locally that can either provide or special order in when we require them.

Internet is a whole different ballgame. Government credit cards can not be used to pay online ... so, we'd have to set up whatever Online supplier with a vendor code in FMAS (thus "speak/talk" with an actual person at that online supplier) so that payment can me made to their authorized bank account after delivery of goods or service.

It's not like you and I Paypalin' or credit cardin' from home.

Vern

 

[HItorMiss]

Rgr Thanks you.

 

[HItorMiss]

Guess who is wearing MKIV's and fuming at the system???

Thankfuly the Clothing supervisor is understanding and I wont be wearing them long.....

 

[armyvern]

......
Thankfuly the Clothing supervisor is understanding and I wont be wearing them long.....

That's good news no??

 

[HItorMiss]

Well the end certainly was good news, but it came after having to discuss with certain people the circumstance of my chit. In the end it came down to a Cpl going around his immediate supervisor and getting the IC clothingand having me and him tell her the situation. Thankfully she was very in tune with the needs and how they could be met. Though she did seem perturbed that the MCpl had been less then understanding even after my situation was explained to him.

All is well that ends well I guess butnow having gone through this system to acquire boots I cannot see why the CF did not just continue with the MKIII's and simply Vibram sole them instead of this MKIV boot. The system that exist now is going to be one of serious frustration for both the issuers of the kit and the end users of the kit.

 

[DirtyDog]

HitorMiss, I suspect you might be the Cpl I overheard today talking about soon getting Converse boots issued.  If not, then there is somebody else here managing to get them.

In battle school, I got a physio chit for GPs (MK IVs).  I trialed several different sizes through battle school, and never mind hating the boots, never found a size that fit, despite going through several consecutive sizes, they were either too big or too small in either width or length.

So, when I got to Pet I immediately went down to clothing stores and traded in for some MKIIIs, which I've come to like.  I was lucky enough that they had a pair in my size (they said they had very few MKIIIs) left, and it just happened to have a Vibram sole.

Will I be able to get them resoled as they wear out?  What will I do if I can't be sized in a MkIV?

 

[niceasdrhuxtable]

Last year, I started having a problem with my regular combat boots which resulted in a chit stating "member requires boots to fit orthotics". When I brought this chit to the supply section at NDHQ, all they did was prepare a work order for me and send me to a civilian company that sold all sorts of industrial products. I just went down to their store, picked out two pairs of boots that I liked and they billed the cost to the supply section. I thought this was pretty straight forward and simple and my feet certainly feel a lot better.

 

[armyvern]

Last year, I started having a problem with my regular combat boots which resulted in a chit stating "member requires boots to fit orthotics". When I brought this chit to the supply section at NDHQ, all they did was prepare a work order for me and send me to a civilian company that sold all sorts of industrial products. I just went down to their store, picked out two pairs of boots that I liked and they billed the cost to the supply section. I thought this was pretty straight forward and simple and my feet certainly feel a lot better.

Orthotics and orthotic footwear is a whole other set of process'. Mind you, you may find yourself and your chit not quite so easy to be sent downtown these days. The MkIVs (like the WW Boot) have a removeable insert, thus the vast majority of per who do have orthotics which need to be placed inside their boots are able to be accomodated in the MKIVs.

Orthotics simply wouldn't fit into the MKIIIs combat boots; that's not the case anymore. Next time you go in for exchange, or for new orthotics -- don't be surprised to find yourself putting your inserts into MKIVs and walking out with a set of them.

Edit: As per your above, that's the very same process that's followed when a member walks in with a chit that says: "requires mesh-sided boots in lieu of combat boots due to medical condition". We send him to the local supplier (which is where NDHQ sent you -- to their local supplier), you try them on, pick them out, and we foot the bill via the Crown.

The situation as described by HorM below, had them prescribing a boot that was not available through the local supplier ... thus that process would not work for him. By rights, he could be made to report to the local supplier and try/test out their boots the same as you did. The problem is, he already knows that the Converse work for him to ease the pain caused by his injuries ... common sense dictates that one would do what they can to obtain those boots for him again; the system nor Treasury Board regulations do not always make "common sense" though ...

 

[LordOsborne]

I've heard rumours that the Cadpat boots are now available at clothing stores in Esquimalt, although getting anything from those guys is like pulling teeth. I did see the general in charge of the reserves and cadets wearing a nice pair though. He was in town for the CFSAC award ceremony.