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Boot, General Purpose (Mk III acting/interim replacement)

CWW boots have been a sore point with alot of people, I could never wear them as I never got a proper fit

Boots have been a sore point here in Pet as I am sure elsewhere because there was so many people getting a chit...I have a bone growth on top of my foot and when I was in the CoC didn't like the fact that I required different footwear and they didn't really care about comfort or well being, but I had to look like everybody else

I believe that if most soldiers could get Vibram soles on the MK 3 they would be satisfied, they are not the best boot out there but then what boot is good for everybody, the Vibram sole does make a big difference

As with anyplace one guy sees somebody wearing something different and they have to have them
 
riggermade said:
CWW boots have been a sore point with alot of people, I could never wear them as I never got a proper fit

Boots have been a sore point here in Pet as I am sure elsewhere because there was so many people getting a chit...I have a bone growth on top of my foot and when I was in the CoC didn't like the fact that I required different footwear and they didn't really care about comfort or well being, but I had to look like everybody else

I believe that if most soldiers could get Vibram soles on the MK 3 they would be satisfied, they are not the best boot out there but then what boot is good for everybody, the Vibram sole does make a big difference

As with anyplace one guy sees somebody wearing something different and they have to have them

Well, as I've only been in Pet for a few months, I can't say much.... but it seems (atleast in my unit) that as long as it's black, and it looks like a military boot, you aren't going to get many hassles.  most people seem to wear the MkIII with Vibram soles and the rest are in Magnums or SWATS.  I personally exchanged my GP's because they didn't fit right and was given MkIIIs with Vibrams soles already fitted as that was all they had left in stock since the MKIII is being phased out.  I don't kow if it is a new concept in the CoC to allow decent footwear, or if nobody is noticing, but I haven't seen anybody be hasseld for their boots yet, nor do I expect them to be.  I think things really are changing.
 
Dirty Dog

I agree that things are changing in the last couple of years.  The problem with footwear other than issued comes down to the cost as does most things, most of those other boots are in the $200-$250 range
 
Vern, the only reason I got issued my boots with vibram soles (Magnums) was that I needed a "breathable" boot and they fit the part.  I originally tried to get the boots for my foot pain but ended up gettting shot down by physio... a WO medic helped me convince physio to recommend the mesh boots for my sweaty feet due to the fact I had to wear the CWWB as it was the only magnum boot I could get away with...

Like I have stated before, I am very happy with my Boots, Combat, general purpose.  I wear my desert HAIX P9 boots here in theater now.. special order for me as they didn't have any Boulet tans in stock for me before we deployed...
 
Bzzliteyr said:
Vern, the only reason I got issued my boots with vibram soles (Magnums) was that I needed a "breathable" boot and they fit the part.  I originally tried to get the boots for my foot pain but ended up gettting shot down by physio... a WO medic helped me convince physio to recommend the mesh boots for my sweaty feet due to the fact I had to wear the CWWB as it was the only magnum boot I could get away with...

Like I have stated before, I am very happy with my Boots, Combat, general purpose.  I wear my desert HAIX P9 boots here in theater now.. special order for me as they didn't have any Boulet tans in stock for me before we deployed...

Ahhh yes Bzzzz,

But, I once had you in my office  >:D ... a long time ago.

The written direction that I am speaking of has occured since that time.

The "breathable" bit on the chits from physio used to be OK for us to purchase you mesh-sided boots with ... then direction came down to us in Clothing that this was no longer deemed acceptable by the Med World (and a copy of whatever it was from them came down with it circa Spring '06 -- I believe) that said that:

Specific boots (ie in Manufacturer) could no longer be prescribed (due to reason that I have noted below); and that
Mesh-sided (canvas-sided) boots in lieu of combat boots were an MO resp to prescribe, and that vibrams were a Physio resp to prescribe.

We actually used to have people show up with chits reading:

"Buy this soldier some Danners, that's what he needs." Honest to Gawd ... signed by MOs (I photocopied the best of them and sent them up the chain). Those times have changed and the written direction specifly stated that no medical authority could determine that only a specific manufacturer's footwear would correct (or mitigate) the medical problem. The written direction adressed problems like that.

The boot problem will be solved when:

All personnel are authorized and given an annual footwear allowance (like the girls get their annual BTU allowance) to put towards purchasing black footwear from whichever manufacturer and in whichever make & model number ... works for them.

Such is the nature of the beast ...



 
Here is the thing that I kinda don't agree with and no not you Vern the system that says no manufacture names.

I got hit, sure no problem went back overseas but took 2 pair tan Converse Boots (personally purchased) 1 pair SWAT tan issued by QM (local purchase). Got back to Canada put my old Vibram MKIII's which I used to love, however they now cause me leg pain in my injured leg, that did not occur while wearing the Converse with full combat load over long dismounted patrols. So The MO said "yup go to Physio we don't do boot chits but you need them." Went to Physio they examined me and what the doctor wrote for my consult and they said "which boots did you wear when you went back over?" I replied Converse, they said " Well then why mess around with this boot and that if the Converse Bootswere great with all that walking and extra weight why get you to try and error some other boots" So they write the chit which states Member requires Converse Boots (black) due to injuries sustained while in theater. Makes sense to me as to why the chit says that but I guess I am going to have to fight the system and waste the CF money till I get a boot that doesn't cause me leg pain....

See that makes no sense to me.
 
HitorMiss said:
Here is the thing that I kinda don't agree with and no not you Vern the system that says no manufacture names.

I got hit, sure no problem went back overseas but took 2 pair tan Converse Boots (personally purchased) 1 pair SWAT tan issued by QM (local purchase). Got back to Canada put my old Vibram MKIII's which I used to love, however they now cause me leg pain in my injured leg, that did not occur while wearing the Converse with full combat load over long dismounted patrols. So The MO said "yup go to Physio we don't do boot chits but you need them." Went to Physio they examined me and what the doctor wrote for my consult and they said "which boots did you wear when you went back over?" I replied Converse, they said " Well then why mess around with this boot and that if the Converse Bootswere great with all that walking and extra weight why get you to try and error some other boots" So they write the chit which states Member requires Converse Boots (black) due to injuries sustained while in theater. Makes sense to me as to why the chit says that but I guess I am going to have to fight the system and waste the CF money till I get a boot that doesn't cause me leg pain....

See that makes no sense to me.

HitorMiss,

I purposefully bolded "canvas sided in lieu of combat boots" in all of my previous posts. Your tan boots are NOT combat boots. Tan boots are desert boots; if your desert boots are being purchased locally for you, you should be experiencing ZERO problems with picking up a pair that are mesh or canvas sided as that IS the spec for those boots.

Canvas/Mesh-sided is not the spec for for combat boots though. Combat boot specs are "black" and "all-leather," ergo the different requirement to meet the "in lieu of combat boot" specs.

The problem with the MOs writing your chit for a specific type of footwear is that the boots will be purchased locally (thus LPO -- local purchase order). What types of boots (from which manufacturer's) are available locally, differs greatly from base to base, and from town to town.

You come here on course and ruin those LPOd "specifically prescribed boots", and they are a type that are not available here locally .. (we can't get Danners locally --perhaps they are available somewhere around here now, but they weren't a couple of years ago), guess what?? We can't buy you squat then. Because some MO has prescribed you "Danners" for example. We, as Sup Techs, have ZERO authority to purchase you anything BUT those Danners when they do that. But, we can't LPO you what isn't available here ... so now, your MO's chit is basically useless, you're on course, and you have no boots. Guess who gets bitched at (usually by the soldier and by various levels of his course staff)?? Not the MO who wrote the useless chit, but the Sup Tech who must (but can't) obey it. And, you'll have to take my word for it, but this occured an awful lot with the amount of candidiates from every Army base in Canada that go through the Schools here; it wasn't a rare occurance -- rather it was causing problems with career courses for those soldiers affected by those "specifically" written chits.

That means, time off from course to go to the MIR ... see the MO ... get a referral to physio again (if applicable), have a whole new chit written up ... and on and on ... (and MO appointments take a very long time to get around here ... and it's pretty hard to be doing a career course out in the field without boots to wear on your feet while you are waiting).

I know what you are saying about the boots you currently have working for you, but that doesn't mean there is not another type available locally (here for example) that will work for you. That's why the system works the way it does.

That's also why the system needs to be fixed to allow for members to receive an annual allowance which allows them to continue purchasing their own footwear that they already know works for them.

The long and the short of it is, that "specific" type prescription ... limits any purchase for you to only that "specific" type ... and that just isn't feasible if you happen to be tasked, coursed, dom op'd to some small Saskatchewan town, or posted to another Base where that "specific" type is not available when you happen to need yours replaced. 

 
Vern You misread part of my post, I didn't say I haave issues getting Desert boots, in fact I had LPO SWAT's(1 pair) which though I don't like for outside the wire operations I thought were great for in KAF, where even the new Tan boots caused me serious foot issues. All I was saying is that I have a chit for Converse boots (Black) for work while in Canada but will now have to fight the system and do trial and error on all sorts of boots and waste peoples money simply because the Physio people cannot say which perticular style of boots is needed. Now I totaly see you point but how about if it was added to the chit "Or nearest matching style available" after the specific manufactures boot?would that not solve everyeons heart ache?
 
HitorMiss said:
Now I totaly see you point but how about if it was added to the chit "Or nearest matching style available" after the specific manufactures boot?would that not solve everyeons heart ache?

Did you go back and ask for that on your chit?.....That might solve........
 
See Bruce you come up with a good idea on a Sunday and well ain't no one open today LMAO

Actually the system does not honor my chit so as such I have to go exchange my vibram MKIII's and get the new MKIV's which I can't wear as they are just CWW boots minus liner and then I will have to start the process over again and  through pain in my leg to acquire boot's which will both work for my feet over long march's and not cause me leg pain while wearing them all day. Rather a long tedious uncomfortable process for all involved in my mind anyway.
 
HitorMiss said:
See Bruce you come up with a good idea on a Sunday and well ain't no one open today LMAO

Actually the system does not honor my chit so as such I have to go exchange my vibram MKIII's and get the new MKIV's which I can't wear as they are just CWW boots minus liner and then I will have to start the process over again and  through pain in my leg to acquire boot's which will both work for my feet over long march's and not cause me leg pain while wearing them all day. Rather a long tedious uncomfortable process for all involved in my mind anyway.

But,

the system would honour a chit from you which was signed by an MO which read:

"This member requires LPOd footwear in lieu of stocked combat boots for medical reasons."
 
Alright I am confused Vern, I was instructed by the MO that the medical side of the house no longer does chits for Boots, that it was now done by Physio, so he booked a Physio consult for me and they made the chit for boots. If I am reading this right I know need to go back to the MO and get him to redo a chit to say mber requires LPO boots in lieu of Stocked Combat Boots?
 
Even if that works to get you LPO'd boots, what kind of boots will they get you?

The problem here lies in the "L" of the LPO.  If you use the Converse, but no one in Pet sells them, well then you aint gonna get the boots that work for you.  Now, if the "L" for local wasn't used so literally this wouldn't be an issue, the internet is just a mouse click away.  There should be a way for clothing to go online, go to Dave's Surplus or wherever in Canada and order you your boots "LPO," the "L" now being local to Canada, and get you your boots in 2 or 3 business days.  Am I RTFOO on this or is that a viable solution?  This way, if you have to go to Gagetown or Wainwright, they can get you your boots without problems, maybe a slight delay but no problems.
 
HitorMiss said:
Alright I am confused Vern, I was instructed by the MO that the medical side of the house no longer does chits for Boots, that it was now done by Physio, so he booked a Physio consult for me and they made the chit for boots. If I am reading this right I know need to go back to the MO and get him to redo a chit to say mber requires LPO boots in lieu of Stocked Combat Boots?

Like I said below, last direction that we had (written direction from the medical side of the house) was that:

Physio: Could only authorize vibram soles (ergo, a chit from them would be invalid as the stocked combat boots DO have vibram soles now).

Medical: Mesh-sided footwear or other due to medical condition. (Mesh sided footwear can now ONLY be purchased either in lieu of desert boots -- because that is the spec for them -- or due to a diagnosed medical condition if in lieu of combat boots -- which are NOT mesh sided).

Physiotherapists are NOT qualified to diagnose medical conditions of the skin which would require a mesh-sided boot to cure or mitigate. That is an MO area of expertise.

If physio is "prescribing" you a "specific" boot with mesh-sides in lieu of a combat boot ... they are unqualified to do so (thus your chit being non-recognized). An MO authority must prescribe mesh-sided footwear due to a diagnosed medical condition, and the chit must be non-specific for maufacturer.

"This member requires mesh-sided footwear in lieu of stocked boots due to medical condition" will suffice -- and then what boots you choose to pick out are up to you. You could simply say to the Sup Tech at clothing "here's my chit for new boots -- can you just LPO me the same type, model & size as you did last time because they worked fine."

That, then, should be the end of it.
 
RCR Grunt said:
Even if that works to get you LPO'd boots, what kind of boots will they get you?

The problem here lies in the "L" of the LPO.  If you use the Converse, but no one in Pet sells them, well then you aint gonna get the boots that work for you.  Now, if the "L" for local wasn't used so literally this wouldn't be an issue, the internet is just a mouse click away.  There should be a way for clothing to go online, go to Dave's Surplus or wherever in Canada and order you your boots "LPO," the "L" now being local to Canada, and get you your boots in 2 or 3 business days.  Am I RTFOO on this or is that a viable solution?  This way, if you have to go to Gagetown of Wainwright, they can get you your boots without problems, maybe a slight delay but no problems.

They will gtet you something locally that you have tried on, and have found that works.

You have just highlighted perfectly the exact reason why the chits should not be written for a specific boot. Because if they are not available ... your chit is useless.

You have also just highlighted the exact reason why we need an annual allowance for footwear:

Then the troops get their money towards their footwear, and can buy the type that works for them via whatever means they see fit such as internet, at home on vacation, while in Toronto for the weekend etc). The troops know which type of boots work for them; give them the allotment of money -- and let them purchase them.
 
ArmyVern said:
They will gtet you something locally that you have tried on, and have found that works.

You have just highlighted perfectly the exact reason why the chits should not be written for a specific boot. Because if they are not available ... your chit is useless.

You have also just highlighted the exact reason why we need an annual allowance for footwear:

Then the troops get their money towards their footwear, and can buy the type that works for them via whatever means they see fit such as internet, at home on vacation, while in Toronto for the weekend etc). The troops know which type of boots work for them; give them the allotment of money -- and let them purchase them.

[Sarcasm Alert!] But then what will the bin rats do?  ;)
 
Hey Ver

Sorry I am not making myself clear. My chit had nothing to do with Mesh sided or leather or whatever... It's because normal combat boots causes me pain in my leg. It has nothing to do with a rash or a sweaty foor problem but pain. Hence physio however the pain is due to a medical condition, being blown up. So now that I have made that clear WTF am I to do now? Do I go to the MO and geta  new chit or o I press the issue with Clothing to be told I can't have that and they give me MKIV's which don't work for me.

I am guess you are going to tell me to go to the MO and try and get this sorted somehow and I thinking that is my best bet. Unless you have a better idea?


Grunt,

You are not RTFOO I think thats the best idea I have heard reference this issue for a long time. No need to F**K around wth this and that, clothing has your size either running shoe or CF boot size and they place an orde 3-5 days later BAM! you have boots for the member no fuss no muss.
 
HitorMiss,

Does your chit say Converse on it?? I believe that they are mesh-sided no?? Sup Techs know this. We purchase a hell of a lot of boots.

If your chit says "converse" then we can not purchase them for you in lieu of combat boots. We must purchase "all leather" boots to replace your combat boots by the specs, unless, of course, you have a chit signed by an MO which states that you "need mesh-sided" (it MUST say mesh-sided in order for us to buy you mesh-sided) in lieu of "all leather" (combat boots) boots due to a diagnosed medical condition.

Thus the problem. If the chit is for a mesh-sided boot (specificly named or not) ... (it should not state a specific make) ... it is the MO who has to be signing it to authorize their purchase.

 
Right to the MO I go then....... Where I will get the same chit.

I'll make sure to tell you how all this turns out...... I have a sinking feeling about it all really they will send me to the Loal place which I know does not carry the boots I want and I will be forced to trial differents makes at the CF's expense till I find one that works..... Yup I wasting CF money and everyones time and sitting through my pain.
 
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