Bemoaning The Lack of Sports in The CF? [merged thread]

[Eye In The Sky]

I know that I most likely will not have one person agree with me but while I understand that we have a responsibility to be in shape and that the CAF has a fitness standard, I fail to see how we got to the point where our members expect to have 1-2 hours each day for PT.

I could type out a long answer; the short version is for me to say "go read the CDS Guidance to COs", specifically Chap 22.  A few quotes from the Chap.

It is imperative that the requirement for fitness training at least five times a week is
respected and applied. As Commanding Officers you will be in a position to facilitate this
requirement for all your personnel.


Seek out every opportunity for CF members to include exercise in their work routines. The
mantras of “fitness on your own time” or “we don’t have time for fitness” are to be
eliminated. Given what we know of the power of daily fitness to increase morale, reduce
stress, and improve work performance, it is incumbent upon us to be innovative in our
approach when a formal fitness routine is impractical.


So ya, other than the direction of the CDS, there is no reason for people to do PT (part of their job, to keep fit) during "work hours".  It is part of our work.

Back when I started, and admittedly it was many years ago, it was the individuals requirement to ensure he/she was fit.  Other then Unit sports events we were expected to use the gym on our own time or participate in our own fitness program at home or where ever we wanted to.  Now I find that my workplace shuts down ever day an hour and a half early, or starts work an hour and a half later because of the "I'm entitled to go to the gym" viewpoint of the members.  God forbid work should come first.

Not to be rude, but I really think you need to go read that Chapter.  ;D

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

By allowing pers to miss exercises and deployments you take either the worker bees or the leader bees. You put the strain in who is left behind. It promotes a culture of special privilege for physically gifted soldiers, and more work for those not so gifted.

Works for me, I never begrudged those who were good enough to play hockey, broomball, etc and scored better goes than I, or others, may have gotten. Sounds like petty whining to these ears....
I did manage one good go, and that was training everyday with no duties for most of a winter for a biathlon competition, and I don't recall getting grief from anyone either.

 

[Drag]

If budgets are shrinking, start cutting off the life supply to nonessential things, the same way your body does if it is freezing to death to protect the "important stuff" and make sure those important things survive.  Sports that cost PYs and TD $ should be cut before anything on the FG/FE side of the house.  Different budgets?  Change them.

Couldn't agree with you more.  I worked in a unit last year where we limited pers to one base/intermural team per sports season/ 2 per year due to significant pers reductions the unit experienced.  There was a distinct and very vocal minority who complained.  Talking to some of them I was taken aback by the culture of entitlement where some people seemed to actually think that it is acceptable for their primary duties to suffer so they can be afforded the opportunity to partake in CISM sports.  An individual actually threatened to grieve not letting him participate in regional due to the Op tempo at the time.

 

[OldSolduer]

By allowing pers to miss exercises and deployments you take either the worker bees or the leader bees. You put the strain in who is left behind. It promotes a culture of special privilege for physically gifted soldiers, and more work for those not so gifted.

Further to this is that the leaders who missed exercises because of sports missed some development in being a leader and were not as able to adapt as others. That didn't matter, they were still promoted on time, were sent on career courses etc because they were "good soldiers".

 

[OldSolduer]

Works for me, I never begrudged those who were good enough to play hockey, broomball, etc and scored better goes than I, or others, may have gotten. Sounds like petty whining to these ears....
I did manage one good go, and that was training everyday with no duties for most of a winter for a biathlon competition, and I don't recall getting grief from anyone either.

When the platoon suffers because the WO and some of his minions are off playing hockey, who does the work? The senior Sgt steps up and does it. In a small unit, the absence of key pers off playing sports is not desirable.

Our primary duty is to kill the enemy, not raise our hands when MCpl Jonny scores a goal.

BTW biathlon is an activity we should be looking at - we do shoot and we live in a country that has winter.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

When the platoon suffers because the WO and some of his minions are off playing hockey, who does the work? The senior Sgt steps up and does it.

Well who steps up when the WO goes down in a real scenario???  Oh yea....

 

[Journeyman]

......training everyday with no duties for most of a winter for a biathlon competition, and I don't recall getting grief from anyone either.

So no one actually noticed that you were gone...... 

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

So no one actually noticed that you were gone...... 

.....and that's the key to really enjoying your job. :-*

 

[upandatom]

So, judging by some of the reactions in this thread, not many of you participate in Sports.

It benefits in many ways;

1. Physical fitness, to compete at the level in many sports takes peak conditioning.
2. Morale, Obviously
3. Team building,
4. Leadership- and to that comment up above that states flying, and sailing develops leadership, that is head in the sand thinking.
5. Friendly Rivalry between bases etc.

I do agree that yes, some sports need to be reeled in. There is no way that a Base Hockey team should be getting free sticks every year. Im sorry, you play that sport, you buy your equipment. That includes sticks. That is a waste of the money right there. Basketball teams don't get shoes, Runners don't get shoes, soccer teams don't get shin pads or cleats.

But the budget is different. PSP earns money from civilian memberships in joining gyms etc. The CAF buys us the best equipment they can for fitness, the PSP are smart and allow civilians to buy memberships. That budget, is something the CAF has said, this will go to fitness. So in essence, the gyms and fitness centres feed money back into the system. Its not only budget money that is used as well. A lot of sponsors are used to, local banks, credit unions etc offer money to run the events, pay for team travel to tournaments.

If you choose not to make a goal, put personal time and effort in, and join one of the many teams, don't harp on the people that do.

Each/most sport has a patron(like Regimental/Honorary Col ) as well, a Senior Staff Officer that is involved with the sport, of free will, they volunteer, that sometimes offer their own money to teams for travel etc.
And CISM has tightened its belts, ALOT. As of now we only have Triathlon, Taekwondo and Soccer I think. The triathlon and taekwondo will never be cut as we are a world contender in those sports.

 

[OldSolduer]

So, judging by some of the reactions in this thread, not many of you participate in Sports.

That's a very broad brush you're using.

Many of us do participate in sports. One here coaches volleyball, I am long distance runner, and at least one I know of is  nationally ranked in karate.
I think our issue is with why in these times of fiscal restraint how do we justify to the public that we can not afford to train our soldiers, but we can afford to send a small select group off to play sports.

 

[upandatom]

By allowing pers to miss exercises and deployments you take either the worker bees or the leader bees. You put the strain in who is left behind. It promotes a culture of special privilege for physically gifted soldiers, and more work for those not so gifted.

Physically gifted? Dafuq is that supposed to mean? Because they work out, train, dedicate their personal time and effort? If a member is not in shape to participate in a sport, that is level of fitness issue. I was out of shape after a sever injury, I busted my ***, got into shape, and was picked up by several base teams.

Your right it is a privilege. We enjoy that privilege, if our CoC says we can go, its not your business. The CoC is aware of the shortage (and usually its only 2-4 days or so). If a unit is having that much manning issues, then the chances of that member being permitted to participate is unlikely.

After several deployments, working with other countries, and seeing their fitness levels,  The overall fitness of our military is a bit of a joke. Why are we doing yoga? especially at units that don't have rigorous PT 5 days a week. Even the circuits given by the PSP are a bit weak sauce.

 

[upandatom]

That's a very broad brush you're using.

Many of us do participate in sports. One here coaches volleyball, I am long distance runner, and at least one I know of is  nationally ranked in karate.
I think our issue is with why in these times of fiscal restraint how do we justify to the public that we can not afford to train our soldiers, but we can afford to send a small select group off to play sports.

Like i stated, a lot of funds come from the Sports Patrons, Gym Membership sales, and Sponsors

 

[Journeyman]

.... its not your business.

You chose to post in a public forum, then say it's "not your business"?  :stars:

Jumping to conclusions is not considered PT.

Try not to get injured climbing down off your soapbox.

 

[JesseWZ]

4. Leadership- and to that comment up above that states flying, and sailing develops leadership, that is head in the sand thinking.

I guess we should just disband the Navy then, not a leader amongst the lot right? It's not like our ships need a Captain and such.

 

[Strike]

That's a very broad brush you're using.

Many of us do participate in sports. One here coaches volleyball, I am long distance runner, and at least one I know of is  nationally ranked in karate.
I think our issue is with why in these times of fiscal restraint how do we justify to the public that we can not afford to train our soldiers, but we can afford to send a small select group off to play sports.

If you're talking me, it's TKD.  Big difference!  (And was ranked. Haven't competed in about two yrs)

I hear the call about fiscal restraint.  As far as I'm concerned, everyone should be affected equally wrt budget cuts.  But that shouldn't mean cutting sports out completely.  When you're posted to a place like Edmonton, sure, there are a whack load of places to practice, compete, etc outside of the base and on your own dime.  But if you're in a place like Goose Bay, there may be only two adult hockey teams -- the CF team and the civvie team.  And travelling to regionals/nationals is the only chance these people might get to see how good they really are and have a bit of fun.

And those people that always seem to be gone to compete?  If they are using their own leave when competing at civilian events and doing their best to make sure it doesn't interfere with the op tempo of the office, the what's the problem?  I've been there myself and sometimes had to miss big competitions, (like PanAm in Mexico grrrrrr) because I was on a course and the schedule didn't allow me to be away, but in the same vein, was given time to go to an international competition in Asia.

 

[ballz]

If you choose not to make a goal, put personal time and effort in, and join one of the many teams, don't harp on the people that do.

I can't help put notice that you keep saying "personal time" when in fact we are talking about the taxpayer's time.

But the budget is different. PSP earns money from civilian memberships in joining gyms etc. The CAF buys us the best equipment they can for fitness, the PSP are smart and allow civilians to buy memberships. That budget, is something the CAF has said, this will go to fitness. So in essence, the gyms and fitness centres feed money back into the system. Its not only budget money that is used as well. A lot of sponsors are used to, local banks, credit unions etc offer money to run the events, pay for team travel to tournaments.

I would, in a heartbeat, support cancelling civilian memberships if it meant cancelling cross-country trips for base teams, but it would have better access to the facilities for both military members and units that want to use them for unit-run PT activities.

It does not sound like a very good use of resources to me when an undermanned rifle coy can't get one floor for an hour to play a game of floor hockey because the facilities are being used up by the local town, and the money is then being used to pay for trips for people who already have no trouble getting ice-time because they are on the base hockey team.

 

[kratz]

But the budget is different. PSP earns money from: in part from NPF BASE FUNDS and civilian memberships in joining gyms etc. The CAF and in part from NPF BASE FUNDS buys us the best equipment they can for fitness.

You are not as aware of where all that support comes from, as you might think. When others posted above that funding comes from a different pot of money, it can NOT all be rerolled back into general public (taxpayer) funds, as NPF is owned by the members.

Edit: My words in yellow inside the quote.

 

[Old Sweat]

You are not as aware of where all that support comes from, as you might think. When others posted above that funding comes from a different pot of money, it can NOT all be rerolled back into general public (taxpayer) funds, as NPF is owned by the members.

Edit: My words in yellow inside the quote.

Early post-unification the CDS tried to seize the various regimental and unit funds to create a giant CF central fund, but this bombed because the courts ruled these monies were separate from DND funds.

 

[kratz]

A central NPF fund continues to exist to this day.

Your post made my point, in that NPF thus a major part of PSP funding is separate from public funding
due to those court cases.

 

[OldSolduer]

Physically gifted? Dafuq is that supposed to mean? Because they work out, train, dedicate their personal time and effort? If a member is not in shape to participate in a sport, that is level of fitness issue. I was out of shape after a sever injury, I busted my ***, got into shape, and was picked up by several base teams.

Your right it is a privilege. We enjoy that privilege, if our CoC says we can go, its not your business. The CoC is aware of the shortage (and usually its only 2-4 days or so). If a unit is having that much manning issues, then the chances of that member being permitted to participate is unlikely.

After several deployments, working with other countries, and seeing their fitness levels,  The overall fitness of our military is a bit of a joke. Why are we doing yoga? especially at units that don't have rigorous PT 5 days a week. Even the circuits given by the PSP are a bit weak sauce.

Not my business? I beg to differ.


Get off your high horse. Try not to fall.