Bemoaning The Lack of Sports in The CF? [merged thread]

[stealthylizard]

McG, I don't doubt they exist, I just never saw it while I was in Edmonton.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Pretty sure trolling, but:

The CF demands physically fit individuals, and what better way to encourage that then with competitive sports...

Right back at you.

Your statement isn't a reason for draining much needed cash from the system.

Physical fitness and competition can be accomplished without semi pro players and cross country trips.

 

[PuckChaser]

And yet Olympian Bear, and whatever 1 Bde hosts, probably move just as many people around as the national sports program. Start your savings measures there.

Full disclaimer: I'm not a national-level athlete, and have only competed at a regional competition once (and sat on the bench). That being said, I think its a valuable tool to promote/reward elite fitness, build teamwork and raise morale. With budgets slashed everywhere, CF sports took the same hit as everyone else. I'm sure we can find some more efficiencies than cutting the one morale-booster thats not a forced-fun smoker at the end of an exercise.

 

[Strike]

McG, I don't doubt they exist, I just never saw it while I was in Edmonton.

There's a pretty robust Taekwondo program in Edmonton.

Generally, the National and CISM sports programs will 'Advertise' in the base paper both before and after events, so no reason not to know about them.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

And yet Olympian Bear, and whatever 1 Bde hosts, probably move just as many people around as the national sports program. Start your savings measures there.

Full disclaimer: I'm not a national-level athlete, and have only competed at a regional competition once (and sat on the bench). That being said, I think its a valuable tool to promote/reward elite fitness, build teamwork and raise morale. With budgets slashed everywhere, CF sports took the same hit as everyone else. I'm sure we can find some more efficiencies than cutting the one morale-booster thats not a forced-fun smoker at the end of an exercise.

I think giving our service personnel the active support, equipment and knowledge is more of a morale builder than sports. Organized sports should be the last thing on the table in a world where people don't even have proper boots.

It's also pretty shallow and naive to consider those sports "the one morale booster".

 

[PPCLI Guy]

Sports is one of the tings that makes us different from civilian employers.....

 

[PuckChaser]

I think giving our service personnel the active support, equipment and knowledge is more of a morale builder than sports. Organized sports should be the last thing on the table in a world where people don't even have proper boots.

And as pointed out before, 2 completely different budgets. Any of that sports money you're cutting isn't buying boots, or possibly not even staying in DND. We have procurement problems, but their cause is not the CF national sports program.  :

 

[OldSolduer]

Sports is one of the tings that makes us different from civilian employers.....

Correct.

I served in a few units that sent rep teams to various regional competitions. The participants - particularly the hockey teams - were viewed as prima donnas by the majority of the unit, and some acted like prima donnas. The vast majority of players were good people caught by their talent. They were a drain on personnel, and often they were MCpls and Sgts, Lts and Capts so their absence was felt.
Often the hockey team(s) were the best treated - formed into a little subunit of their own, trained twice per day, nothing in between and if they went on ex, it was seen as a "good go". A good way to sew dissension among the troops.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Sports is one of the tings that makes us different from civilian employers.....

Yep, definitely different. Most civilian employers ensure their employees have the proper equipment they require to do their job.

That includes their house league sports teams btw.

 

[ballz]

The CF demands physically fit individuals, and what better way to encourage that then with competitive sports...

Yes, and the CF gives them an hour a day every day to participate in physical training. Except half the troops miss it because they're on the base golf/curling/slo-pitch/(insert other non-strenuous sport here) team  :

 

[Quirky]

Yes, and the CF gives them an hour a day every day to participate in physical training.

Funny, I've never seen an hour a day, every day, where I was allowed to go to PT during work hours. God forbid I go to the gym 30min before my shift ends, heads usually roll. Then again, the majority of my bosses have never seen the inside of a gym, let alone know where it is. I find the whole notion of "CF demands physically fit individuals" laughable when its not being enforced and overweight troops are the norm.

As far as CF National Sports program, seems that the majority of complaints are coming from those that don't participate in sports. I will never say no to someone who requests time off to participate in regional or national events. This includes going to practices during work hours.

 

[ballz]

Funny, I've never seen an hour a day, every day, where I was allowed to go to PT during work hours. God forbid I go to the gym 30min before my shift ends, heads usually roll. Then again, the majority of my bosses have never seen the inside of a gym, let alone know where it is. I find the whole notion of "CF demands physically fit individuals" laughable when its not being enforced and overweight troops are the norm.

As far as CF National Sports program, seems that the majority of complaints are coming from those that don't participate in sports. I will never say no to someone who requests time off to participate in regional or national events. This includes going to practices during work hours.

Can't speak for your unit, where you are, etc, but in my unit its being enforced more and more from the top down. Command teams were chastised last year for not participating in the Petawawa Ironman and told they *will* be this year like it or not, and everyone was ordered to participate in the local Bushman event and will be this year as well. Sub-unit commanders have to submit a weekly PT sitrep to the CO and I have seen him walk into the office and change it because there wasn't enough (aka... range days were classic "no PT" days, now it is a ruckmarch back from range).

As for sports, I participate in martial arts 2-5 times a week... at 7pm, at a local gym, that I pay out of pocket for. I wouldn't want to participate in sports during work hours because I am busy enough without missing time, but I am all for the troops going and playing a game of hockey as they are generally less occupied than I am in garrison.

That said, when we are going to conduct live-fire platoon attacks in the field for a few days and we are forced to combine 3 Pl's + Coy HQ to make one rifle Pl, and some of the best troops are missing because they are gone on a week-long hockey tournament somewhere else in the country, no, I do not support that. I do not see why the CAF needs to have a national sports program of that magnitude when a local sports program is more than adequate to promote fitness and teamwork, and would allow us to actually do what we are paid to do when it is time to go do it....

 

[Quirky]

That said, when we are going to conduct live-fire platoon attacks in the field for a few days and we are forced to combine 3 Pl's + Coy HQ to make one rifle Pl, and some of the best troops are missing because they are gone on a week-long hockey tournament somewhere else in the country, no, I do not support that. I do not see why the CAF needs to have a national sports program of that magnitude when a local sports program is more than adequate to promote fitness and teamwork, and would allow us to actually do what we are paid to do when it is time to go do it....

If there is an exercise during a regional/national event its up to the COC to approve members participation. I've been denied participating at a national event due to short manning and an ex. in the US. I didn't put up a fuss since there is always next year, plus Borden sucks. I don't see how someone can be approved to go to a sporting event over an important career ex or course.

 

[TCM621]

If there is an exercise during a regional/national event its up to the COC to approve members participation. I've been denied participating at a national event due to short manning and an ex. in the US. I didn't put up a fuss since there is always next year, plus Borden sucks. I don't see how someone can be approved to go to a sporting event over an important career ex or course.

I once new a Lt(N) who came back from a deployment to practice up and compete for triathlon nationals. Stuff like that happens all the time.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

And as pointed out before, 2 completely different budgets. Any of that sports money you're cutting isn't buying boots, or possibly not even staying in DND. We have procurement problems, but their cause is not the CF national sports program.  :

It does ultimately come from the same pot. That one that the taxpayers give us. Just because the CAF decides to split it off into various budgets does not change things. Funds can be reallocated to those budgets and some might even be cancelled and the funds transferred elsewhere.

 

[Quirky]

I once new a Lt(N) who came back from a deployment to practice up and compete for triathlon nationals. Stuff like that happens all the time.

If he is approved, why not? Sports shouldn't be seen as a career handicap, in fact the opposite as it promotes fitness, team work and in some cases leadership.  :2c:

 

[OldSolduer]

If he is approved, why not? Sports shouldn't be seen as a career handicap, in fact the opposite as it promotes fitness, team work and in some cases leadership.  :2c:

By allowing pers to miss exercises and deployments you take either the worker bees or the leader bees. You put the strain in who is left behind. It promotes a culture of special privilege for physically gifted soldiers, and more work for those not so gifted.

 

[Tibbson]

I know that I most likely will not have one person agree with me but while I understand that we have a responsibility to be in shape and that the CAF has a fitness standard, I fail to see how we got to the point where our members expect to have 1-2 hours each day for PT.  And just try to tell someone they can't get the time off each day to practice with the Base basketball team or that week off to go to Nationals because it would leave the office too short staffed. 

Back when I started, and admittedly it was many years ago, it was the individuals requirement to ensure he/she was fit.  Other then Unit sports events we were expected to use the gym on our own time or participate in our own fitness program at home or where ever we wanted to.  Now I find that my workplace shuts down ever day an hour and a half early, or starts work an hour and a half later because of the "I'm entitled to go to the gym" viewpoint of the members.  God forbid work should come first. 

 

[Eye In The Sky]

If he is approved, why not? Sports shouldn't be seen as a career handicap, in fact the opposite as it promotes fitness, team work and in some cases leadership.  :2c:

So does: 

1.  sailing, in the Navy.

2.  flying, in the RCAF.

3.  FTXs in the C Army.

Much better than *sports* does.  Full stop. 


Someone answer me this;  what does playing on say, the Wing hockey team and going to the Nationals do to directly improve the operational effectiveness of the Wing you are from?  Does it make you a better tech, pilot, MSE Op, or whatever?

I doubt it.

If budgets are shrinking, start cutting off the life supply to non-essential things, the same way your body does if it is freezing to death to protect the "important stuff" and make sure those important things survive.  Sports that cost PYs and TD $ should be cut before anything on the FG/FE side of the house.  Different budgets?  Change them.

We need to stop making excuses to justify the things we do that are stupid because we've been doing them for XX years.

 

[JesseWZ]

Now I find that my workplace shuts down ever day an hour and a half early, or starts work an hour and a half later because of the "I'm entitled to go to the gym" viewpoint of the members.  God forbid work should come first. 

I thought there was a CANFORGEN from the (now retired) CDS about that somewhere (circa 2011-2012ish?) expressing his intent we be "fit to fight." A "peacetime" army is still required to be fit to fight (the mission being our first priority and all). Claims, Stores, Reports, Memos, et al, can be dealt with after ensuring our men and women are "fit to fight" should the GoC call on us to go somewhere, kill people and wreck their stuff.

I wont weigh in on the Sports stuff too much, other than if we are all tightening our belts, CISM should too. Start axing some National Sports/Teams, and re-examine that pot of money, but I definitely don't see a problem with members conducting PT during work hours at a unit where an organized PT time may be impractical. There are also solutions for places closing early like staggering the timings of members PT as well.