Bemoaning The Lack of Sports in The CF? [merged thread]

[Humphrey Bogart]

Definitely not a bad idea, but at te same time, we want pers to have fun while improving fitness and and all the other goodies that sports entail, we don't want to only offer bag drives for sports. Which to be fair some would consider the events you listed as such others would love them.

Hence why I said the possibilities are endless; however, we are in the business of war so obviously the military needs to keep soldier skills in mind whenever we do any sort physical fitness activity.  The #1 priority of our fitness programs should be to contribute to our operational effectiveness. 

The major point of contention I have with what you said was high speed equipment and facilities...what do you define as high speed? Because I'm merely talking about power racks that I don't have to worry about holding up to use, barbells that won't bend with what should be insignificant loads on them. More weight plates (iron and bumper plates) those kinds of things, it's not like I am saying we should have a mono-lift or an indoor rowing tank.

There's nothing high speed about my recommendations.

No it's not high speed but it costs money, something we are already in short supply of in case you haven't already figured out.  What I am advocating is rationalizing the money we do invest into PSP/Health and Wellness etc... and actually coming up with some sort of coherent strategy.  You like weightlifting, so do I and that's great but that is not a strategy/mission for the CF to adhere to. 

There is little if any objective analysis regarding the performance of our PSP programs and that needs to change.  You saying we need to buy this and we need to buy that is not going to solve the lack of fitness culture in the military, the only way that will be solved is with proper governance derived from policy. 

If you want to keep arguing about buying power racks and olympics bars and be "zero value added" to this discussion then that's your prerogative.

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

I stand corrected, we had strategic guidance with this document:

Canadian Forces Health and Physical Fitness Strategy
http://www.cg.cfpsa.ca/cg-pc/Trenton/EN/HealthPromotion/HPFS/Documents/CF_Health_Fitness_e.pdf

Drafted and signed by Rick Hillier back in 08... too bad it isn't worth the paper it's printed on.  I wonder if those OPI's responsible for the different LoO's were held to task on getting the job done  :

 

[Biggoals2bdone]

Hence why I said the possibilities are endless; however, we are in the business of war so obviously the military needs to keep soldier skills in mind whenever we do any sort physical fitness activity.  The #1 priority of our fitness programs should be to contribute to our operational effectiveness. 

I although I agree that the aim should be to ensure our soldiers are in adequate physical condition to conduct operations, I disagree with your narrow view.  The majority of the sports/competitions you mentioned are ruckigng or long  distance events, although this would seem logical to many the vast majority of sailors and airman have little to no need for rucking or long distance events, partly because of their occupational requirement and partly due to space constraints of working environments. Conversely long distance running is pushed strongly military wife , very much so army wide yet speaking to many cbt arms types who were deployed, including our SF, no one really ran more than 20-200m. Which bring s me to my other point, that really no matter what activity you do so long as it improves your fitness it also has correlation to operational effectiveness.

No it's not high speed but it costs money, something we are already in short supply of in case you haven't already figured out.  What I am advocating is rationalizing the money we do invest into PSP/Health and Wellness etc... and actually coming up with some sort of coherent strategy.  You like weightlifting, so do I and that's great but that is not a strategy/mission for the CF to adhere to. 

There is little if any objective analysis regarding the performance of our PSP programs and that needs to change.  You saying we need to buy this and we need to buy that is not going to solve the lack of fitness culture in the military, the only way that will be solved is with proper governance derived from policy. 

If you want to keep arguing about buying power racks and olympics bars and be "zero value added" to this discussion then that's your prerogative.

And maybe you would have figured out that from psp staff I was explained their budget is actually mainly not handed down by fed, it's mainly from CAC, canex, and messes, therefore they are NOT taking funds away from the federal budget for the CAF.

I actually like powerlifting, weightlifting is a completely separate sport, to be accurate I compete in powerlifting I don't just like it , but that's beside the point. You can clearly see by my other posts that I've done more than say buy this or that, so your comment doesn't fly, I merely brought up another subject, and used strength and conditioning equipment as an example one of which I am pretty well versed in. I do however agree that PSP should somehow be held accountable and that checks and balances should be in place in case they are doing a crappy job.

Also my point in bringing up the equipment is that most if not all military fitness facilities are inadequately furnished, for the amount of people and what we expect them to do, which many others on and off this board have agreed with me about.

My prerogative is and has been clear just go back and read from the beginning.

 

[daftandbarmy]

The Army isn't all work:

http://books.google.ca/books?id=aJwcpj-5MTAC&pg=PT22&lpg=PT22&dq=british+army+sports+philosophy&source=bl&ots=xaEzpxHqOH&sig=BcmBmkSot2yBigsW948wE_pxjek&hl=en&sa=X&ei=lvOwU8iINsTZoATYmoJ4&ved=0CCgQ6AEwAg#v=onepage&q=british%20army%20sports%20philosophy&f=false

 

[upandatom]

Interestingly one of the things the British Armed Forces has done as a result of their draw down from Afghanistan and impending defence reductions has been to increase funding for sports and physical fitness.  Why you may ask?

Because young men who are soldiers need something to occupy their time when they aren't training for/fighting a war.

I tend to agree with OP that we suffer from a lack of sporting culture within the CF, I won't call it this though as we aren't paid to play sports, we are paid to be physically/mentally fit so when we are called upon we are ready to deploy. 

I don't think investing in high speed sports equipment and facilities is the solution.  We have ample money invested in sports it just isn't distributed properly.  I would like to see us get rid of CISM, if people want to go play professional volleyball/basketball/taekwondo/etc... they can doit on their own time.  Take the money from CISM and re-invest it in developing fitness culture at the Bde/Wing/Fleet level.  I'd also like to see us invest more money into events with a military focus.

Events/activities Like:

1.  Canadian Forces Patrol Concentration
2.  Army Run
3.  Ironman/Mountain Man/Bush Man
4.  Biathlon
5.  Bde Shooting Competitions
6.  Orienteering
7.  Increased adventure training
8.  Increased funding for sports clubs on bases

The possibilities are endless, what is needed though is an actual strategy to improve fitness with actual objectives and measurable goals.  For an organization that prides itself on "planning" it's amazing nobody can provide any sort of actual direction on health and fitness? 

Here is a radical idea.....

Presently, PSP falls under CFMWS, who answers to CMP.  My personal opinion, CFMWS has way too big of a mandate to effectively manage everything they do and parts of it should be given to others to manage, PSP being one of those organizations that doesn't belong. 

I believe PSP should answer directly to the Surgeon General or one of his appointed subordinates, why you may ask?  Take a look at your local public health unit and who is in charge of it and what it's mandate is.  It's overseen by a Doctor and it looks after a number of different portfolios which I will list:

In no apparent order:

Alcohol
Blind & Low-Vision
Child Health
Cold Chain
Dental and Oral Health
Diseases and Conditions
Eating Well
Extreme Weather
Falls Prevention
Health Hazards
Hearing
Immunization
Infection Control
Influenza
Physical Activity
Pregnancy and Postpartum
Resources for Health Care Providers
Sexual Health
Speech and Language
Sun Safety
Tobacco
Travel Health

Key ones highlighted in yellow

Taken from Kingston, Frontenac, Lexington & Addington (KFLA) Public Health website:
http://www.kflapublichealth.ca/Content.aspx?Id=1

Essentially they look after health promotion (educating people on how to live healthy lifestyles) and also implement programs to achieve this education.  Sounds a lot like PSP doesn't it?  Fact is, while physical fitness does improve morale and welfare in some cases, it is ultimately a medical issue and as such should be looked after by the medical branch.  We have a fitness problem in the military, rather than pretending it doesn't exist lets empower the medical field to deal with it and provide the Chain of Command with a comprehensive strategy to address this issue.

I will fully agree with the statement of British increasing funding for sports,  the Americans and Aussies are doing the same. After a war keeping troops gainfully employed/occupied/trained and in top shape should be the priority. You are ramped up in that high gear when returning, Im not ssaying go back to that level, but the Athletics gives an outlet for the soldiers.

Too often now do I see members continuously cleaning tentage, or doing joe shmo jobs that have been done and are "create work projects" (even not after ex), or not being allowed to workout, train. By no means am I saying open the flood gates and let the troops wander aimlessly to the gym like a zombie apocolypse. Im saying allow them that extra time, let the MCpl run an extra PT session or two, maybe an interunit basketball/soccer/or any sport really competition, or even a practical workout, tire tosses/carrys, weighted carries, log carries, PRACTICAL lifts that can easilyu be organized.

We have gained many excellent soldiers that went above and beyond what was expected of them because of Afghanistan. Lately, I see many of them on their way out the doors because they have gone from being occupied, working hard, having a sense of worth, comradery and being part of a team to sweeping floors, mopping tentage, retesting the same kit over and over.

Military Athletics keeps this mentality up of being the best you can, that competitiveness, fitness levels up.

Some of you are real haters on it, I am not quite sure why. I get it maybe if you deal with the "Hockey elite" but TBH, it isnt their fault, they asked the CoC and it said yes. Thats something that should be brought up to the CoC if thats the case.

Ill agree with MrBlue on the running aspect. It boggles my mind we have changed and adapted as a military. Our kit is heavier, we carry more, ECM, Radio, Ammunition, Rations, Water, but yet generally speaking we have not changed/altered fitness routines to adapt to this. If we were moving somewhere 10-20-30-40-50km out, it was a chopper or clip. not walking, patrols, NOT jogs. the kits heavier,

in turn Leg, back, arm and core strength need to be up there. Im not talking a section full of jersey shore juice monkeys, a good variety of the strong, the fast, the agile and the smart.

IMHO, running 3-5 days a week unless your training for an ultra marathon, trail race, triathlon, etc is not the answer to whats in store for the CAF. I think it is important, but not the end all be all, it does more the mental endurance of our members.

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

I although I agree that the aim should be to ensure our soldiers are in adequate physical condition to conduct operations, I disagree with your narrow view.  The majority of the sports/competitions you mentioned are ruckigng or long  distance events, although this would seem logical to many the vast majority of sailors and airman have little to no need for rucking or long distance events, partly because of their occupational requirement and partly due to space constraints of working environments. Conversely long distance running is pushed strongly military wife , very much so army wide yet speaking to many cbt arms types who were deployed, including our SF, no one really ran more than 20-200m. Which bring s me to my other point, that really no matter what activity you do so long as it improves your fitness it also has correlation to operational effectiveness.

Again, you miss my point.  I wasn't advocating for any specific activities.  I listed some in my OP but the list is not exhaustive.  Different services have different requirements of their members which is why I don't think we should be painting the CF with one broad brush.  I am a little confused where you thought I had a narrow view?  If it makes you feel better you can add a #9 to my list and insert Powerlifting.

And maybe you would have figured out that from psp staff I was explained their budget is actually mainly not handed down by fed, it's mainly from CAC, canex, and messes, therefore they are NOT taking funds away from the federal budget for the CAF.

I am well aware of who controls what WRT to budgeting, ultimately NPF money is controlled by the Chief of Defence Staff who distributes it out at his discretion.  So while it may be a different pot of money it's still controlled by the military.

I actually like powerlifting,

You don't need to tell me again, I've already noted it from your last few posts

You can clearly see by my other posts that I've done more than say buy this or that, so your comment doesn't fly, I merely brought up another subject, and used strength and conditioning equipment as an example one of which I am pretty well versed in. I do however agree that PSP should somehow be held accountable and that checks and balances should be in place in case they are doing a crappy job.

Also my point in bringing up the equipment is that most if not all military fitness facilities are inadequately furnished, for the amount of people and what we expect them to do, which many others on and off this board have agreed with me about.

My prerogative is and has been clear just go back and read from the beginning.

I understand your prerogative is the following:

1.  You enjoy powerlifting, not only do you enjoy it, you compete in it;
2.  You think CF physical fitness facilities are inadequate; and
3.  You want them to invest in better equipment.

I don't have a problem with any of this if that was actually how you framed your argument.  No offence but the problem is you come across as a bit of a brat who is crying because he didn't get the new toy he wanted for Christmas.  I don't think this is your intent but it's how it sounds.  It sounds like you are unhappy because you aren't being afforded the very best to do something YOU love.  The key word being YOU. 

Something I am guilty of and I think almost every member of the military is guilty of is that we lose sight of the big picture and focus on ourselves when at the end of the day, what we want is irrelevant because what YOU want isn't a factor in the decision-making of the big machine. 

I have no problem with you wanting to buy new equipment for our fitness centers, in fact, I mostly agree with you that in some cases (not all) they are inadequately equipped.  What I am advocating is coming up with an actual strategy to raise fitness levels of the CF. 

Think of the 3 levels of operations: Tactical, Operational and Strategic.  Right now you are arguing for something that is at the tactical level (i.e. better fitness equipment) which is fine but how does it correlate to the operational and strategic level of the CF?  It has been stated by many that we have a fitness problem in the CF, I agree with this statement which is why I think we need a fitness strategy to address this issue and some changes need to be made rather then continuing on with status quo. 

You make some good arguments MrBlue but unfortunately they end up getting lost because you come across as only thinking about yourself and not about the actual institution.  The way you frame an argument is just as important as the argument itself.

 

[ballz]

Here is a radical idea.....

Presently, PSP falls under CFMWS, who answers to CMP.  My personal opinion, CFMWS has way too big of a mandate to effectively manage everything they do and parts of it should be given to others to manage, PSP being one of those organizations that doesn't belong. 

I believe PSP should answer directly to the Surgeon General or one of his appointed subordinates, why you may ask?  Take a look at your local public health unit and who is in charge of it and what it's mandate is.  It's overseen by a Doctor and it looks after a number of different portfolios which I will list:

In no apparent order:

Alcohol
Blind & Low-Vision
Child Health
Cold Chain
Dental and Oral Health
Diseases and Conditions
Eating Well
Extreme Weather
Falls Prevention
Health Hazards
Hearing
Immunization
Infection Control
Influenza
Physical Activity
Pregnancy and Postpartum
Resources for Health Care Providers
Sexual Health
Speech and Language
Sun Safety
Tobacco
Travel Health

Key ones highlighted in yellow

Taken from Kingston, Frontenac, Lexington & Addington (KFLA) Public Health website:
http://www.kflapublichealth.ca/Content.aspx?Id=1

Essentially they look after health promotion (educating people on how to live healthy lifestyles) and also implement programs to achieve this education.  Sounds a lot like PSP doesn't it?  Fact is, while physical fitness does improve morale and welfare in some cases, it is ultimately a medical issue and as such should be looked after by the medical branch.  We have a fitness problem in the military, rather than pretending it doesn't exist lets empower the medical field to deal with it and provide the Chain of Command with a comprehensive strategy to address this issue.

While it makes perfect sense, I don't have enough confidence in our healthcare* to think having the PSP answer to the medical corps would make a lick of difference.... The medical corps is often a part of the problem as to why we have unfit soldiers.

*Our healthcare in the CAF is subpar at best. Not only is it completely under-resourced for the overwhelming workload it has, many of the personnel, civilian and military, are working well outside their "arcs." Yes, I went there, if any healthcare professionals are offended by this they are free to PM me.

 

[upandatom]

While it makes perfect sense, I don't have enough confidence in our healthcare* to think having the PSP answer to the medical corps would make a lick of difference.... The medical corps is often a part of the problem as to why we have unfit soldiers.

*Our healthcare in the CAF is subpar at best. Not only is it completely under-resourced for the overwhelming workload it has, many of the personnel, civilian and military, are working well outside their "arcs." Yes, I went there, if any healthcare professionals are offended by this they are free to PM me.

Agreed,
Under manned, Under funded, over stretched.
I shouldnt still be dealing with a knee issue for over a year now and just cringing when I do unit runs in pain.  I know people in way worse situations then I am.

 

[Journeyman]

Yes, I went there, if any healthcare professionals are offended by this they are free to PM me.

That sounds pretty menacing.  You must have free Wi-Fi.   

 

[PPCLI Guy]

Agreed,
Under manned, Under funded, over stretched.
I shouldnt still be dealing with a knee issue for over a year now and just cringing when I do unit runs in pain.  I know people in way worse situations then I am.

Try civie street.

 

[OldSolduer]

Try civie street.

It's much worse out on civvie street, unless you have a condition that demands you go to the ER.

 

[PuckChaser]

I shouldnt still be dealing with a knee issue for over a year now and just cringing when I do unit runs in pain.  I know people in way worse situations then I am.

3 months to diagnose, 7 month wait for surgery, 6-7 months rehab. Its not just you in that boat. I've never had a real issue with our medical system WRT sports injuries, other than the insistence that physio be the diagnosing solution, other than spending the money on imaging. A MRI is not cheap, but is going to pick up most soft tissue problems before we're forced to run on them (because no one is going back for another chit if it "feels fine" after a few weeks, lets face it) causing even more damage and delaying proper treatment (surgery or physio, etc).

 

[CombatDoc]

*Our healthcare in the CAF is subpar at best. Not only is it completely under-resourced for the overwhelming workload it has, many of the personnel, civilian and military, are working well outside their "arcs." Yes, I went there, if any healthcare professionals are offended by this they are free to PM me.

I'm not offended by your opinion, but I will have to disagree with your POV. 

I have no idea what your particular circumstances are WRT your medical issues, but, the majority of our healthcare professionals belong to regulated professions (e.g. physicians, physio, pharmacist, nurses) with very well defined "arcs of practice".  As a health care practitioner, I believe that I belong to an excellent organization, but that is just my POV.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

I'm not offended by your opinion, but I will have to disagree with your POV. 

I have no idea what your particular circumstances are WRT your medical issues, but, the majority of our healthcare professionals belong to regulated professions (e.g. physicians, physio, pharmacist, nurses) with very well defined "arcs of practice".  As a health care practitioner, I believe that I belong to an excellent organization, but that is just my POV.

You must be practicing your bedside manner.

I think you let him off way to easy

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

While it makes perfect sense, I don't have enough confidence in our healthcare* to think having the PSP answer to the medical corps would make a lick of difference.... The medical corps is often a part of the problem as to why we have unfit soldiers.

*Our healthcare in the CAF is subpar at best. Not only is it completely under-resourced for the overwhelming workload it has, many of the personnel, civilian and military, are working well outside their "arcs." Yes, I went there, if any healthcare professionals are offended by this they are free to PM me.

Why is the healthcare system part of the problem why we have unfit soldiers?  I think you should elaborate a bit.  If the healthcare system is part of the problem as to why we have unfit soldiers, it's because they haven't been afforded the necessary tools and policy for them to be able to do their jobs accordingly.

As for PSP answering to the medical corps, it's called having a strategy because right now we have none.  I mentioned in another thread that the CF is far too focused on testing when they should be focused on the actual prescription of treatment options for people who are physically unfit.  A test will not solve a problem, it will only identify it. 

As for the testing we presently do, it is flawed IMO because it is based around average probable tasks our soldiers are presently doing; however, is this necessarily what we want them to do?  What should we expect of our soldiers?  What sort of things do we want them to be able to achieve?  These are questions our organization needs to ask itself and once we have an answer we can then begin implementing a test that gauges whether soldiers meet our standards and what the plan is to get the force to the level we want it to be at.

The medical corps is responsible for health and well-being of the force which is why PSP should fall under direction of the Surgeon General.  Right now nobody is owning the problem we have.  They would rather do the typical Ottawa thing of deflecting the problem and pushing it off to the side. 

 

[upandatom]

3 months to diagnose, 7 month wait for surgery, 6-7 months rehab. Its not just you in that boat. I've never had a real issue with our medical system WRT sports injuries, other than the insistence that physio be the diagnosing solution, other than spending the money on imaging. A MRI is not cheap, but is going to pick up most soft tissue problems before we're forced to run on them (because no one is going back for another chit if it "feels fine" after a few weeks, lets face it) causing even more damage and delaying proper treatment (surgery or physio, etc).

In my location we see Civilian Physio, as well there are sports medicine, Kinesiologists etc there.
Med Tech completes Menisicus and fails each time.

Doc, Knee needs to be strengthened around it, go to physio (14 sessions at $65, and the Assessment is at $85 total $995)

Physio therapist completes Meniscus test, fails each one, sends letter to Doc saying MRI is required for further consult. Doc says no, just a Physiotherapist, not funding that. Two different doctors later, and 4-5 months, MRI finally ordered, comes back for a positive tear, in two spots. The sports expert and the med tech were right.

MRI was i think $700,

 

[upandatom]

Why is the healthcare system part of the problem why we have unfit soldiers?  I think you should elaborate a bit.  If the healthcare system is part of the problem as to why we have unfit soldiers, it's because they haven't been afforded the necessary tools and policy for them to be able to do their jobs accordingly.

As for PSP answering to the medical corps, it's called having a strategy because right now we have none.  I mentioned in another thread that the CF is far too focused on testing when they should be focused on the actual prescription of treatment options for people who are physically unfit.  A test will not solve a problem, it will only identify it. 

As for the testing we presently do, it is flawed IMO because it is based around average probable tasks our soldiers are presently doing; however, is this necessarily what we want them to do?  What should we expect of our soldiers?  What sort of things do we want them to be able to achieve?  These are questions our organization needs to ask itself and once we have an answer we can then begin implementing a test that gauges whether soldiers meet our standards and what the plan is to get the force to the level we want it to be at.

The medical corps is responsible for health and well-being of the force which is why PSP should fall under direction of the Surgeon General.  Right now nobody is owning the problem we have.  They would rather do the typical Ottawa thing of deflecting the problem and pushing it off to the side.

Agreed, too often do I see people on a chit for a month, two months etc with physio and rehab for back, Sprains etc just thrown right into PT 110% risking worsening the injury etc because of CoC pressure as to why they are not part of the unit for PT.

 

[Armymedic]

While it makes perfect sense, I don't have enough confidence in our healthcare* to think having the PSP answer to the medical corps would make a lick of difference.... The medical corps is often a part of the problem as to why we have unfit soldiers.

*Our healthcare in the CAF is subpar at best. Not only is it completely under-resourced for the overwhelming workload it has, many of the personnel, civilian and military, are working well outside their "arcs." Yes, I went there, if any healthcare professionals are offended by this they are free to PM me.

I also disagree. I will go further by saying your statement is made from a position of ignorance.

If you do not know or understand what our "arcs" are, then how can you say we "are working well outside" of them? Do you know precisely what each and every Clinician has done in thier training and what thier specific areas of expertise are?

But nothing we say will changed your opinion. So I will end there.

 

[ballz]

Okay, deep breath. This is why I said to PM me, as this will be longwinded.

My own personal situation is unfortunately not unique, especially since it sounds a lot like upandatom's. Keep in mind, I am in a command position, so this is not just about my experience. I have 30+ subordinates and I am dealing with these issues on their behalf all the time and its the same thing over and over again.

I had a knee injury that had almost locked my leg straight. I am directed to a WO Med tech, a Physicians Assistant (civie side I'd have seen a doctor, full stop). The WO can't find the problem, so instead of doing even an X-Ray (we have our own machine so no one can claim "costs" as the problem), he sends me to physio. Physio finds that I fail the Lachman's test, suspect a torn ACL, and send me back to get an MRI. The WO still can't find the problem, gets another physio to look at it, he looks at it and says "yup, failing the Lachman's test." The WO decides "well an MRI is expensive, I don't want to send you for an MRI unless we're sure that physio can't fix it. Do physio for 6 weeks and then if its not better we'll send you for an MRI." I specifically ask him to do an X-Ray because some of the pain is in the bump on my knee (from osgood-schlatters when I was younger) and something might show up, he says "no, I'm pretty sure its a soft-tissue injury so it won't show up on an X-Ray." This guy hasn't even found a problem with my knee yet after having two physio's tell him where the problem is, and yet he's "pretty sure?"

Keep in mind, this back and forth process meant months to actually get into physio and start a program. Then I am treated for a torn ACL in physio because there was no proper diagnosis made and the physio's are going off of their best indication.

Finally, I do 6 weeks of physio, still not better. The physiotherapist is mildly surprised that I have not responded to the treatment but says "there is obviously something else going on by the way you are describing the pain to me." She told me herself she was genuinely frustrated when I was not sent for an MRI originally. I have to make another appointment and wait a month and a half or so to see someone, finally I get an MRI. After another two months or so I get to Halifax to get it and my physio calls me to tell me about the results and says "you need to go to the MIR and get these 'officially' so you can see a specialist'". I have a torn patellar tendon with bone isosceles (fragments) and this is causing a inner patellar bursitas as well. Then when I go to the MIR to get the results "officially," I am told I have to wait 2 months to see someone, just so he can refer me to someone else, as he will not see me during sick parade despite the fact that there are two people in the waiting area.

The whole process took me over a year to actually see an MD, even longer to see the specialist, and they were treating the wrong injury the whole time. And a big part of recovering from a torn patellar tendon is that you start treating it quickly. Finally I get to see a specialist, who recommends a certain non-invasive treatment instead of doing a major surgery (cutting my tendon, removing the bone fragments, and sewing it back together), and the CF won't pay for the $350 non-invasive treatment that could save me from major surgery.

Try civie street.

I have. On civie street, I would be seen by a doctor. Not a med tech, not a physio, not a nurse, not a physician's assistant. That WO was right the f**k out of 'er the entire time and the way he handled it was detrimental to a full recovery of the injury. I have spoken to a family member who is a Physician on civie side and was told that it was crazy that I failed a Lachman's test and didn't get scheduled for an MRI, and that yes, an X-Ray would have shown right away there were more problems than just a torn ACL.

Every time I hear a military healthcare professional talk about our healthcare system, they brag about how fast they can get an MRI because they pay a private clinic, whereas civilians need to wait a year or more due to the waiting lists. This is great, except they go through all hell and back to avoid sending you for MRI so you end up waiting a year or two anyway. It was actually passed down in our O-Groups that 42 Health Svcs is being directed by Ottawa to use all other means possible including physio to treat an injury before sending someone for an MRI to be properly diagnosed. Treat the injury and then diagnose it? This is ***-backwards.



I have a young, fit soldier, who was told he "might" have compartment syndrome but between having med tech's and nurses send him to physio, cancelling his appointments, and taking months to schedule an ultrasound, he is over 8 months now without an actual diagnoses or treatment plan. Meanwhile he is on TCAT the entire time and couldn't deploy for Ex Maple Resolve. His chit won't let him do anything but he is also not being treated. The Adj contacted an MO over there and was given some reasons, some good, some bad, but was told "if this continues to be a problem, the members are always accepted at sick parade." Sorry, this may be the "policy," but I have personally been turned away at sick parade by an MO and told I need an appointment (and the next closest appointment is in 2 months).

I have an outstanding young SNCO who is going places, who almost lost vision in one eye permanently because he was directed to a Physician's Assistant who said he had a sty in his eye and gave him some drops and sent him home. He came back the next day cause it was worse and had to go to the civie hospital where an actual MD saw him (imagine that) and said he was misdiagnosed and actually had uveitis that was brought on by his rheumatoid arthritis and it needed to be treated immediately.



When you have med tech's and nurses dealing with torn patellar tendons / ACLs / MCLs / any serious knee injury, compartment syndrome, and rhematoid arthritis, or you have physios trying to diagnose these problems without modern day technology (X-rays and MRIs) and the solution to everything is to send you to physio because an MRI is too expensive, then clearly our healthcare system is under-resourced, overwhelmed, and the personnel are taking on things that on the civie side of the house a doctor would be handling. That means our healthcare is sub-par, if "par" is the civilian side.

So please, be offended all you want, the healthcare I am receiving and the healthcare my subordinates are receiving is sub-par, full stop.

 

[CombatDoc]

The medical corps is responsible for health and well-being of the force which is why PSP should fall under direction of the Surgeon General.  Right now nobody is owning the problem we have.  They would rather do the typical Ottawa thing of deflecting the problem and pushing it off to the side.

Actually, it is the Chain of Command that is responsible for ensuring the health of our troops. Health Services can provide diagnosis, treatment, recommendations and advice, but at the end of the day, it is Commanders that are held responsible for their troops health and safety.