Becoming a Pilot in the CF.

[J_Muir]

Once you fly in one you realize it's just an other plane except it is very small, you can't stop sweating, it goes fast but you can't realize it unless you are doing low level supersonic flights, and then you realize pilots only get 180 hrs a year and a LOT of paperwork. 

Max

Are you for real? 180 hrs/year? Can anyone else shed some light on this?

I want to fly commercial some day down the road, so maybe jets aren't the best way to log a lot of hours...

 

[TheCheez]

The figure varies from year to year but that's a decent estimate. Consider than with jets your usual training mission is ~1.5 hours.  Next consider that you're at work 170-175 days a year or so. Add in various deployments, weather days, maintenance probs, QRA duty and most importantly ground duties its hard to rack up huge hours. Its not like the civy world where you do the milk run for 7 hours a day on autopilot. If you're looking to fly 1000 hours per year, honestly you're barking up the wrong tree with the CF. I would recommend doing a little more investigating to the real life of the various communities you might find yourself in and the type of flying and lifestyle you're getting into.

EDIT: Sorry I'm having a math issue today. You can expect to work ~210 days not 170 assuming you actually stay away during leave/weekends. Also I cant speculate accurately on the other communities as I really dont know. The instructors in MJ rack em up pretty quick though.

 

[J_Muir]

The figure varies from year to year but that's a decent estimate. Consider than with jets your usual training mission is ~1.5 hours.  Next consider that you're at work 170-175 days a year or so. Add in various deployments, weather days, maintenance probs, QRA duty and most importantly ground duties its hard to rack up huge hours. Its not like the civy world where you do the milk run for 7 hours a day on autopilot. If you're looking to fly 1000 hours per year, honestly you're barking up the wrong tree with the CF. I would recommend doing a little more investigating to the real life of the various communities you might find yourself in and the type of flying and lifestyle you're getting into.

I'm not looking to get that many hours per year. Just that most airlines require a minimum of 1000 hours - minimum being the key word. How many hours do pilots in the CF log on other aircraft?

Thanks for the info by the way

 

[Zoomie]

If you want hours - don't even think of fighters.  Think more along the lines of Maritime Patrol (aka CP-140 Aurora) or Tactical Airlift (aka CC-130 Hercules).

Irregardless - even if you average only 300 hrs/year and owe the CF 7 years after Wings, simple math shows  you should amass close to 2100 hrs.

 

[Astrodog]

Just from my speakings with a hornet driver who is currently on the FWIC... the average hop for a hornet driver is roughly 0.8 to 1.0.. but as he told me they are 'quality hours'! Though there is also a downside to that, as the pilot who was doing OJT at CFRC London told me, you are pretty much living an MJ style life year round, the flying, planning and academics are absolutely hair on fire intense (She also told me that 5 of 11 slots on MJ were jets... i wanted to 'fast forward my life as well), and as the hornet driver told me you have to have an undying passion for flying fighters or you will be miserable... I'm in the same boat as you J_Muir, currently in the recruitment process dying to fly Jets, hit me up with a PM...

 

[Good2Golf]

Don't forget the "stick to brief/debrief" ratio.  Fighter guys "rule" on that one... ;D

 

[Dizzy]

Just that most airlines require a minimum of 1000 hours

  If you're looking for an airline job after you complete your mandatory service - be prepared to slash your lifestyle. Most airlines have a starting salary that may make you baulk. Rumour has it lots of reg force pilots are turning down Air Canada because they don't feel like making half their current pay for the first year.

 

[SupersonicMax]

The best deal is staying A class reserve and flying full time for Air Canada

Max

 

[J_Muir]

The best deal is staying A class reserve and flying full time for Air Canada

Max

Wow, I had no idea you could do that here (I know you can in the US). Thanks for that information man!

 

[WannaBeFlyer]

  If you're looking for an airline job after you complete your mandatory service - be prepared to slash your lifestyle. Most airlines have a starting salary that may make you baulk. Rumour has it lots of reg force pilots are turning down Air Canada because they don't feel like making half their current pay for the first year.

Or less. ( I heard Jazz Pilots made in the 30-40K range to start; I might be wrong.) Not to mention, big red can and will lay you off if need be...

 

[Good2Golf]

Guys who want to pick up time explicitly to to go to the airlines should do a "business case" to determine if the lifestyle and financial factors play out the way you think you might them to in the future.  I know a lot of guys who are now top dog (senior guys who bid on "good go's" like A330/340 out of Toronto for Bejing, etc...) and the coin is pretty darned good.  It is also absolutely true that you take a not insignificant dip (plummet?) in pay in the early years of airline life (things like first officer on Dash-8 or CRJ, etc...)

If someone plans on finishing off the time they owe to the Queen at the end of their contract...nothing at all wrong with that.  If it's about money, there are other ways to make even more money than becoming an airborne bus driver...no effense to my AC buddies, but they tell me that's exactly what they do, whether you bid layover as a young guy trying to do the Austin Powers thing, or bid productivity to max your days on the golf course. 

In the end, it's probably more a lifestyle choice than a monetary one, when you get right down to it.  Folks that run on a monetary model alone should probably not be in the military (certainly not as a dedicated career soldier).

Mein zwei centen,
Duey

 

[SupersonicMax]

I don't think people are in the military for the money but it certainly is important.  Your lifestyle depends to a certain extent on the money you make.  I tell you right now, if the military didn't pay a dime, I wouldn't be in the military.

Having said that, I think your employment should be based on what you want to do, what you like to do, what you want to get and what are your chances of advancements.  Anyways, this is the way I see things... 

Max

 

[Zoomie]

The best deal is staying A class reserve and flying full time for Air Canada

Not as easy as you think Max. "A" class  positions are rare in the AF and rarely have anything to do with being a Pilot.  We have one  "B"Class  flying pilot at our Squadron - the "A" class Pilots all fly desks.  A maximum of 12 paid days per month will not give you enough time to maintain your flying quals and all your secondary duties.

If you want to push buttons for a living and wear a suit to work - Big Red is your calling.  If you want to really fly and have some say into what you do and where you go - military aviation is the community for you.

 

[SupersonicMax]

Hi Zoomie.  I'm at 402 Sqn right now (a Total Force Squadron) and we have SEVERAL of those guys, even some that have never done reg force.  My wife might go through the same thing.  Those people are considered experienced pilots and by pass Moose Jaw and go straight to the King Air then Dash 8.  We also have a lots of retired people on class A and B.  Most of the Class A people fly for civilian companies.

Max

 

[Zoomie]

Seen Max - 402 is an odd-ball when it comes to that...  Guys like Jim (no last names) who already fly for Big Red and want to experience real flying are a good asset for the CF.  We can get them to back-fill a rather benign job like training baby-navigators, freeing up CF Pilots for more operational duties. 
For the un-informed, these pilots cannot go anywhere else and are restricted to flying the Dash-8 only.  If they want to fly any other piece of kit, they need to join the Reg Force and go through all the pilot training.

 

[ark]

J_Muir - OJT choices are varied and really up to you as the OJTer.   What city do you live in?  Do you want to stay at home?  Are your married?  If you want to fly Hornets, you can get an OJT at an operational fighter squadron.  You will be La Reine du Photocopier - but at least you will be able to fly in a Bravo.

Do you get to jump from one OJT to another in a different location or are you stuck with the same one from day one until you get your wings?

 

[Good2Golf]

Do you get to jump from one OJT to another in a different location or are you stuck with the same one from day one until you get your wings?

Depends on the unit you're doing OJT at.  I worked with one OJT here to transfer to another unit, but he was still considered posted to the unit here, and only attach posted to the other unit (i.e. no formal move, etc... at the end of his OJT, he still has to clear out through this unit).  It is more acceptable between gaining/losing units if there are no additional costs; there can be and this would come out of one of the unit's budgets, not the career managers pot.  That's why it usually happens only in exceptional cases.

Cheers,
Duey

 

[observor 69]

Calgary, experiencing dramatic growth, an economic and business powerhouse within Canada now and for the future. Alberta finally gaining the political power it has sought since it's inception. A smart young man native to the province, graduating with a university education into this hotbed of capitalism and opportunity. But he chooses to move away from all these possibilities and opportunity, choosing a career path followed by less that one percent of Canadians.
Canada's military during the Cold War presented little chance to be killed or to kill others. Now we see 23 Canadian deaths and counting in a cause while admireable may not be achievable through military means.
Canadians are now realizing that the purpose of a military force is to "break things and kill people."
I am retired after a 27 year career and support our troops and feel the loss each time we experience another death.
Many people enter the military seeking an education or career training. To enter with a university education and the potential of a life with a job, a family and a career, not so common.
I wish you nothing but the best Mr. Muir but consider your choices carefully.

 

[J_Muir]

Calgary, experiencing dramatic growth, an economic and business powerhouse within Canada now and for the future. Alberta finally gaining the political power it has sought since it's inception. A smart young man native to the province, graduating with a university education into this hotbed of capitalism and opportunity. But he chooses to move away from all these possibilities and opportunity, choosing a career path followed by less that one percent of Canadians.
Canada's military during the Cold War presented little chance to be killed or to kill others. Now we see 23 Canadian deaths and counting in a cause while admireable may not be achievable through military means.
Canadians are now realizing that the purpose of a military force is to "break things and kill people."
I am retired after a 27 year career and support our troops and feel the loss each time we experience another death.
Many people enter the military seeking an education or career training. To enter with a university education and the potential of a life with a job, a family and a career, not so common.
I wish you nothing but the best Mr. Muir but consider your choices carefully.

I completely understand what you're saying and can see why it seems like a not so common choice, given my circumstances. Basically, it comes down to a few points for me as to why I want to do it.

- I love flying and have always wanted to make a career out of it via the airforce
- I've always felt drawn toward the military
- I feel like the Canadian military need people like me *

* When I say 'people like me', I dont mean to sound arrogant. I think that people who join the military with a degree from a civy university are more likely to be highly motivated than someone who went through RMC and has a contract to honour. I'm only speculating here, but in general, I think that's maybe how it is.

 

[Torlyn]

* When I say 'people like me', I dont mean to sound arrogant. I think that people who join the military with a degree from a civy university are more likely to be highly motivated than someone who went through RMC and has a contract to honour. I'm only speculating here, but in general, I think that's maybe how it is.

As a DEO, I call BS.  I'm highly motivated not because I got my degree on my own.  I'm highly motivated because I love what I'm here for, and I motivate myself accordingly.  We have a pile of RMC kids going through the ropes here right now, and they are no differently motivated than those of us who got our civvie degrees first.  You will see people trying to buck the system on both ends.  You will find good and bad sailors and soldiers regardless of their entry program.  Do not come in with any sort of preconceived opinions about DEO vs RMC vs CFR's, it will be more harmful than helpful.

Know why YOU want to be here, and worry about YOU.  The military will tell you when it's time to start worrying about others, and believe me, it'll be a while.

T