Basic Officer Training
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As of right now, there are a bunch of rumours flying around. On the CFLRS site, it says 14 weeks for IAP and BOTC. I know for myself I did 9 weeks of IAP last summer and will be doing 5-6 weeks of BOTC next summer.
I've also heard that for RMC cadets, it's going back to an 11 week combined IAP/BOTC.
If you're going civi U though, BOTC will probably be a total of 14-15 weeks for you...
I've also heard that for RMC cadets, it's going back to an 11 week combined IAP/BOTC.
If you're going civi U though, BOTC will probably be a total of 14-15 weeks for you...
M
military-guy
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If you go to Saint-Jean and do not speak French you are screwed. While your course staff will be fluent in English (as all Anglophones have to go there for Basic Training), Saint-Jean is a very Francaphone area. The support staff that work at the base have very limited English abilities and can be very rude if you do not understand them when they speak French or use French terms to speak to you. Also, off base everything is in French only unless you drive to Montreal, about 40 minutes away by car. You can't even order McDonalds or watch a movie in English in Saint-Jean. If you are heading to Saint-Jean, get ready to be treated like crap by the Francaphones. Why they make English Canadians go to Basic Training in a seperatist area I have no idea. They don't make the french go to alberta for Basic Training,... they go to Saint-Jean where everything is ok for them because it is in french. The added stress this situation causes english recruits is unacceptable in my opinion. At least have fluently bilingual people working on the base!!!
K
koach
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military-guy,
You do not go to BOTP to eat a MacDonald's or go to the movies. You go there for training! Basic Training is in Saint Jean because the facilities are there and no other reason.
From the tone of all of your posts, I don't think Francaphones treated you like crap just because you can't speak french.
You do not go to BOTP to eat a MacDonald's or go to the movies. You go there for training! Basic Training is in Saint Jean because the facilities are there and no other reason.
From the tone of all of your posts, I don't think Francaphones treated you like crap just because you can't speak french.
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Ok, I will say from experience that St-Jean is what you make of it. I spent a year there doing prep year and the "angry franco" stereotype, while it may exist in places, can often be attributed to "ignorant anglo" syndrome. Respect them, they will respect you. It's a learning experience. Besides, if you ever expect to go on deployment, do you expect everyone to love you? Didn't think so. Life deals you crap in St-Jean, deal with it. More than likely you'll only be there for 14 weeks of IAP/BOTP. Make the most of your time there and even if you don't know a lot of French, just try. It's a different culture and it can be somewhat enjoyable if you put the effort in. And remember, you only get out what you put in.
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military-guy said:
Give me a break.
How about ... "If you go to Afghanistan and do not speak Dari you are screwed. While SOME of your ISAF staff MIGHT be fluent in English or French (as all of NATO is supposed to be), Kabul is a very non-English/non-French area. The entire freaking population around you will have limited English/French abilities and can become very frustrated, even insulted if you do not understand them when they speak English/French or use English/French terms to speak to you. Also, off base everything is in Dari only unless you drive to ... (insert some ridiculous destination here), about a gazillion kilometres away by car (Camp Mirage took several hours ... by Herc ...). You can't even order McDonalds (BECAUSE THERE IS NONE) or watch a movie in English in downtown Kabul. If you are heading to Kabul, get ready to be treated like crap if you only speak English. Why they let narrow-minded pukes go to Basic Training I have no idea.
The added stress this situation (in Canada) causes recruits is a drop in the bucket, in my opinion. At least have recruits who aren't sitting on their own shoulders, otherwise they'll only get a view of their own BS!!!
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What's this "us" and "them" talk anyways...last time I checked, we were all Canadians. You would have the same sorts of problems if CFB Whatever was plopped down in the middle of Chinatown in Vancouver. Does that make it a bad thing?
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This is sort of why part of "Officer Training" is the federal government PAYING you to learn French (or English) as a second language... Where's the issue? Hell, I'm looking forward to spending that time out there... How often are you given the opportunity to explore the extent of CANADIAN culture, ESPECIALLY by learning the language? I'm an Alberta boy through and through, and my french is horrible at best.. However, I don't know anyone who's found learning a second language to be detrimental. That, and I highly doubt that the french-speaking population out there were that mean, given that many angliphone officer candidates are there to LEARN the language. I'd imagine if you're making an honest effort, they'll respect that. If you don't take it seriously, you should have read the officer requirements for the CF better prior to applying. As for stress in the Canadian Forces... :
God forbid.
T
God forbid.T
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Where is the CF officer French language instruction done? At St. Jean itself, or another facility in Quebec? When do Anglophone Officers generally get sent to French school - after Phase 2? Whenever is convenient? Whats the teaching/course structure and language standards there like?
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Good attitude Torlyn!
As for the Support Staff, the experience of myself and many others is that they were very rude. But we found that it had nothing to do with language...they were equally rude to everyone (can't accuse them of prejudices). I don't wish to comment on their capabilities there, as it may be the "one bad apple" syndrome, other than to say that, before I left for course, my RMS clerk did everything for me here (plane tickets and claims for return trip - even though the message said St Jean would take care of returns) because she said, "They do nothing for you there and they're impossible to deal with!" Hey...it's what a fellow RMS Clerk said about her peers, I'm just relaying the message.
Regardless of someone's opinion, to get back on topic, if you don't have French Language Training, you shall take it at the Language School in St. Jean, immediately after your BOTP. The only time I know that the SLT can be taken elsewhere, is if you are an Officer that has been Commissioned from the ranks.
Whats the teaching/course structure and language standards there like?
There is some excellent instruction available, and you are treated better than a recruit. The course structure does change, so I wouldn't want to comment too much on that. The language standards are the same as the Civilian equivalent (ie: A, B, C, & E - A being the lowest). That being said, I know of some people that come out of St. Jean knowing little more than when they went in. This had nothing to do with the instructors or course content, and everything to do with Attitude. If you finish course with three A's, so be it. But the goal is for three B's (Reading, Writing, Oral Interaction). As with University, they can't make you learn, they can only provide you with the materials to do so. It's up to you as to how proficient you wish to become in this new (and highly valuable) skill.
Hope this helps answer most questions.
Chimo!
As for the Support Staff, the experience of myself and many others is that they were very rude. But we found that it had nothing to do with language...they were equally rude to everyone (can't accuse them of prejudices). I don't wish to comment on their capabilities there, as it may be the "one bad apple" syndrome, other than to say that, before I left for course, my RMS clerk did everything for me here (plane tickets and claims for return trip - even though the message said St Jean would take care of returns) because she said, "They do nothing for you there and they're impossible to deal with!" Hey...it's what a fellow RMS Clerk said about her peers, I'm just relaying the message.
Regardless of someone's opinion, to get back on topic, if you don't have French Language Training, you shall take it at the Language School in St. Jean, immediately after your BOTP. The only time I know that the SLT can be taken elsewhere, is if you are an Officer that has been Commissioned from the ranks.
Whats the teaching/course structure and language standards there like?
There is some excellent instruction available, and you are treated better than a recruit. The course structure does change, so I wouldn't want to comment too much on that. The language standards are the same as the Civilian equivalent (ie: A, B, C, & E - A being the lowest). That being said, I know of some people that come out of St. Jean knowing little more than when they went in. This had nothing to do with the instructors or course content, and everything to do with Attitude. If you finish course with three A's, so be it. But the goal is for three B's (Reading, Writing, Oral Interaction). As with University, they can't make you learn, they can only provide you with the materials to do so. It's up to you as to how proficient you wish to become in this new (and highly valuable) skill.
Hope this helps answer most questions.
Chimo!
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Getting by in St-Jean with only english is fine. Granted, I've spent only a limited amount of time in the town, but I've encountered no significant problems. I've shopped at the mall, Wal-Mart, eaten at establishments, and spent time at local bars.
And, if it was that big of an issue, take a cab or the bus to montreal. A cab is expensive (although less so if you get a few guys together), and the bus takes an hour, max.
And, if it was that big of an issue, take a cab or the bus to montreal. A cab is expensive (although less so if you get a few guys together), and the bus takes an hour, max.
