Auroras for Afstan?

[cp140tech]

Wasnt a shot at you or anyone else...sorry if it sounded as such.  I know the other issues pretty well.....i've been CNX'd alot !!!   

  My mistake, I apologize for misreading your post. 

  I'd love to head overseas, it just seems like there are too many obstacles for us to overcome.  Like I said, I guess the grown-ups will let us know when we need to. 

  We try our best, but we end up with a fair number of scrubbed missions as well.

 

[weiss]

question, maybe slighty off topic.  Why "Afstan" ?  Is it what you guys call it for short?  I am asking 'cause I haev heard "Afghan" before, not afstan. 

 

[Good2Golf]

Afstan, A-stan, AFG, Asscrackistan, the sandbox, etc......you'll hear them all.  None meant derogatorily, I'm sure, but some said with appreciation of the physical environment which can be a thin-aired, hot dust bowl at times...

G2G

 

[MarkOttawa]

More speculation:

Canada to beef up military punch in Afghanistan, but no more infantry: general
http://www.news1130.com/news/international/article.jsp?content=w011947A

...
Also last fall, the Defence Department ordered up a $360,000 contract to outfit a suite of countermeasure systems on an unspecified number of CP-140 Aurora coastal patrol aircraft. Such hardware is used to confuse incoming missiles and the tender left little doubt as to the reason for the upgrade.

The work was being done "in order to safely permit CP-140 operations in hostile theatres," said the contract award notice, obtained by The Canadian Press.

The aircraft - normally used for maritime patrols - would be put into the skies of land-locked Afghanistan for intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance missions. Currently the United States and Australia are using their version of the Aurora - P-3 Orions - for exactly that purpose here.

The air force has made no formal announcement on when the patrol planes could join the fight...

Mark
Ottawa

 

[MarkOttawa]

weiss: "Afstan" was the short form used in External Affairs telegrams in the 1970s.

Auroras over land
by DavidAkin on Sun 28 Jan 2007
http://davidakin.blogware.com/blog/_archives/2007/1/28/2689876.html

Macdonald, Dettwiler and Associates Ltd. of Richmond, B.C. is moving ahead with previously announced plans to put some new kinds of radar on Canada’s fleet of CP-140 Aurora patrol aircraft.

“The CP140 Aurora patrol aircraft were acquired by Canada in 1980 and are used primarily for maritime surveillance. When the current Aurora upgrade program is completed, the radar surveillance solution on the Aurora will be able to detect, track, and image objects moving on land or sea,” MDA says in its press release.

MDA and DND have been working on this sincce 2003. After testing and development of this new radar, four Aurora’s will be outfitted with the prototype land radar beginning in April. The fleet will be upgraded with the new radar once the production issues are sorted out.

It’s all part of a long-range plan, through to about 2025, to continue to modernize the Auroras.

And there is some thinking that the giving Aurora the ability to complete surveillance missions over land — as well as improving its defensive capabilities from a land-based threat — means that the Aurora’s could be soon be deployed in support of Canada’s forces in Afghanistan.

Mark
Ottawa

 

[aesop081]

:rofl:

Thats all i can say to all that

 

[cp140tech]

:rofl:

Thats all i can say to all that

  I'm right there with you.

 

[aesop081]

Guess they don't understand that AIMP and ASLEP are 2 different things......One has money and is going on, the other doesnt have any money and that is going to render the other pointless.....

 

[cp140tech]

  We do seem to be working at cross purposes.  I have absolutely no idea where the grown-ups see this fleet in the next few years, let alone what our capability will be to meet their 'vision'. 
  Oh well, I'll keep the engines running, you guys worry about the flying, and they can worry about the rest.

  play safe.

 

[aesop081]

Article from the official AF site on our recent involvement in 29 palms, California.  This was in support of USMC pre-deployement training for Iraq.

http://www.airforce.forces.gc.ca/19wing/news/releases_e.asp?cat=118&id=2363

 

[JackD]

This article says something about scrapping/selling 6 of the Auroras.. http://www.canada.com/components/print.aspx?id=22fbb1c1-2162-4a26-b721-f153a000e36e....  alas. I think the verdict here (on this site) would be that more are needed not less. What say you, gentlemen? Can the multi-capabilities of the Aurora be replaced by drones, or is the individuals who make these decisions drones themselves?

 

[Thorvald]

More info on this topic and the new radar... (didn't see this posted yet so here it is).

http://www.isrjournal.com/story.php?F=2510667

Canadian CP-140 radar upgrade moves forward
January 26, 2007

Canada’s military has embarked on the final phase of a multi-year plan to transform its version of the Lockheed P-3 Orion maritime patrol aircraft into a battlefield surveillance platform.

MacDonald, Dettwiler and Associates (MDA) is the prime contractor on the 200 million Canadian dollar program to develop a ground surveillance radar capability for 16 of Canada’s 18 CP-140 Aurora aircraft, acquired in 1980 for the anti-submarine warfare (ASW) mission.
MDA said it will now complete ground and flight testing of four prototype radars, while delivering 16 production systems for installation during the next Aurora upgrade slated for April.

“When the upgrade is completed, the Auroras will be able to detect, track and image anything moving on land or sea,” the company said.
Visually indistinguishable from other Orions, the Aurora’s feature an improved ASW electronics suite similar to that installed on the U.S. Navy’s S-3 Viking, a carrier-based ASW/patrol aircraft.

Canada’s CP-140s flew around 500 sorties in the Persian Gulf during the post-9/11 period, in support of U.S. operations in the region. They have also been used on anti-drug missions for NORAD and the Royal Canadian Mounted Police.

Two units fly the CP-140: the 19 Wing at Comox, British Columbia, and the 14 Wing at Greenwood, Nova Scotia. Typical crews include two pilots, a flight engineer, 4 navigators and three sensor operators.

 

[aesop081]

Canadian CP-140 radar upgrade moves forward
January 26, 2007

(1) Canada’s military has embarked on the final phase of a multi-year plan to transform its version of the Lockheed P-3 Orion maritime patrol aircraft into a battlefield surveillance platform.

MacDonald, Dettwiler and Associates (MDA) is the prime contractor on the 200 million Canadian dollar program (2)  to develop a ground surveillance radar capability for 16 of Canada’s 18 CP-140 Aurora aircraft, acquired in 1980 for the anti-submarine warfare (ASW) mission.
MDA said it will now complete ground and flight testing of four prototype radars, while delivering 16 production systems for installation during the next Aurora upgrade slated for April.

“When the upgrade is completed, the Auroras will be able to detect, track and image anything moving on land or sea,” the company said.
Visually indistinguishable from other Orions, the Aurora’s feature an improved ASW electronics suite similar to that installed on the U.S. Navy’s S-3 Viking, a carrier-based ASW/patrol aircraft.

Canada’s CP-140s flew around 500 sorties in the Persian Gulf during the post-9/11 period, in support of U.S. operations in the region. They have also been used on anti-drug missions for NORAD and the Royal Canadian Mounted Police.

Two units fly the CP-140: the 19 Wing at Comox, British Columbia, and the 14 Wing at Greenwood, Nova Scotia. Typical crews include two pilots, a flight engineer, 4 navigators and three sensor operators.

(1)  Unfortunately, i WISH we were in the final phase of modernization  :  The new radar is part of AIMP Block III.  Block IV and ASLEP ( which is still awaiting aproval and funding) remain to be done.

(2)  The new radar started developement long before we started taking on an overland role. it will be a giant leap forward compared to the current APS-506.

 

[Zoomie]

Looks like AIMP just got canned in its totality. 

Send your extra wool socks to your local (MP) Sqn - they're going to need the extra warmth for all those Arctic Sov Patrols.

 

[aesop081]

Looks like AIMP just got canned in its totality. 

????????

 

[flames9]

????????

Think he is refering to this:
http://www.canada.com/components/print.aspx?id=22fbb1c1-2162-4a26-b721-f153a000e36e

 

[aesop081]

The loss of 6 CP-140s has been talked about for the last 2 years.....as a means of paying for ASLEP

 

[Zoomie]

That same article also mentions the cancellation outright of the $900MCAD AIMP project.

It goes on to further mention that UAVs out of Comox and Greenwood would take over the West/East coast patrols, leaving the CP-140 for Arctic patrols.

I tried to call you at work dude...

 

[aesop081]

That same article also mentions the cancellation outright of the $900MCAD AIMP project.

It goes on to further mention that UAVs out of Comox and Greenwood would take over the West/East coast patrols, leaving the CP-140 for Arctic patrols.

I tried to call you at work dude...

I'm not at work...call me at home

AIMP block I is already flying.....

AIMP Block II is in progress.....the new FFS is up in Greenwood.....The EO/IR that we now have was originaly part of BLOCK III

 

[JackD]

Now I am right, I assume, that the Aurora aircraft are used in coordinating air/sea rescue as well as a myriad of other "on-site' tasks aren't I? So how can this be done by means of drones? Surely sovereignty patrols/ monitoring can be done by drones to a large extent - does the article have it all backwards, or do the individuals who make the decisions have it all backwards?