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Auroras for Afstan?

MarkOttawa

Army.ca Fixture
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"On guard for thee and me"
Comox Valley Record, Dec. 13
http://www.comoxvalleyrecord.com/portals-code/list.cgi?paper=8&cat=43&id=791062&more=

The frigid plains of Alberta might seem like a strange place to find an aircraft designed to hunt submarines.

But a new skill honed by 407 Squadron in a pair of Alberta-based exercises may be more than a simple change from the sea. In fact, the unit’s participation in two November exercises — Wolf Safari and Maple Guardian — may mark a sea change in Aurora operations.

Wolf Safari, held at 4 Wing Cold Lake from Nov. 5–10, was the largest exercise yet of the Air Expeditionary concept. A pair of Auroras, one from Comox and one from 14 Wing Greenwood’s Maritime Proving and Evaluation Unit, joined CF-18s and KC-130 air refuellers to test the air force’s ability to deploy high-readiness forces to “bare-bones” airfields anywhere in the world...

...As soldiers on the ground sharpened their war-fighting skills, high above them the Aurora demonstrated its growing prowess at an entirely new role — direct support to troops in combat.

“It makes perfect sense to be as inter-operational with the army as we have traditionally been with the navy,” says detachment commander Maj. Mark Mombourquette. “ISR (Intelligence, Surveillance and Reconnaissance) is what we do well. We’re just changing the environment we’re doing it in.”

The focus on this new “overland” role began more than a year ago with the introduction of the Aurora’s powerful new Canadian-built Electro-Optical Infra-Red imaging system.

Replacing the aircraft’s original infrared set-up, the high-resolution Wescam EO/IR MX-20 camera combines a vastly improved IR capability with a stunning daylight zoom mode. Together, they give the Aurora an unprecedented ability to monitor targets from great distances...

“In direct support, you see the benefits of your efforts in real time. In a way, it’s now easier to see the link between what we’re doing and the threat than at any time since the end of the Cold War. I find the overland role quite motivating.”

While the results were promising, Mombourquette cautions that much remains to be learned about the direct support role. When it comes to communications, for instance, both the army and the air force still speak a slightly different language.

Many procedures remain different, requiring what Mombourquette refers to as “further cross-pollination.” And though it has been technically mastered, tactical mastery of the MX-20 on the battlefield has only just begun.

"Military wants "large as possible’ slice of flying time"
Halifax Chronicle Herald
http://thechronicleherald.ca/NovaScotia/545974.html

Military planners want as much flying time as they can get from the Aurora long-range patrol aircraft if they are to be used to conduct surveillance flights over Afghanistan.

Documents obtained under the Access to Information Act show Canada’s Auroras, most of which are based at 14 Wing Greenwood in Nova Scotia, are wanted for use in the war-torn country.

The "preferred approach" would be for Canadian Expeditionary Force Command to get "as large as possible" a slice of the Aurora fleet’s yearly flying rate, say documents the military prepared in October.

"This is a critical part of defining any (concept of operations)," say the documents, obtained by the NDP.

The Auroras have been fitted with upgraded equipment that will allow the airplanes to conduct increased and more detailed surveillance over land.

Using the aircraft for overland intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance is a new role for Auroras, say the documents, which note the planes may need an army liaison officer to be part of the on-board crew.

The availability of Auroras that are configured to fly over land is limited, the documents say.

"Configuring more aircraft will take time and money."..

Mark
Ottawa
 
She's built for this type of job.  Wheather she's sub hunting, fisheries interdiction, or looking long range for timmie up in the mountains.  I think she'll do a good job.  It'll be good to see the girls again.
 
USN were using armed P3's in A-Stan for CAS, carrying maverik missiles & JDAM bombs, make good sense for us to be going in this direction...
 
Jammer said:
IMHO...No chance in hell.

Well its a good thing that the CDS, CLS, CAS and us CP-140 crews dont agree with you

BYT Driver......Thats not a picture of a CP-140 Aurora you posted.......Look closely, Its tail #120........also look at the lack of ESM pods on the wingtips as well as the abscence of the SRS anteneas. You posted a pic of a CP-140A Arcturus.
 
I know! I'm not that far away from it that my regoc is off of the old girls.  I've given her enough gas to know it's 120, but it's all I had.  And it's not YZX she's at, possible YAW? I still agree that they can use 140/1 in Afgan, better platform for IRS. 
How's that nav?
 
This is a genuine question, what can an Aurora do that a TUAV of Pred or any other UAV out there do, taking into account OPSEC of course?
 
Lone Wolf Quagmire said:
This is a genuine question, what can an Aurora do that a TUAV of Pred or any other UAV out there do, taking into account OPSEC of course?

I don't think anyone should answer that here....i know i won't , sorry.

 
Like I said I'm not looking at OPSEC, just why send Aurora's when TUAV's can do the job, ie "the Aurora's can see more'"
 
It's all a moot point.

After the latest round of discussions there is NO money and NO desire by senior leadership to send them.
Mainly its the NO money issue ......................
Cmdr 1 Cdn Air Div just finished some briefings that pretty much nailed the coffin shut on this topic.

Same old story ...... NO money.  :(

Shame really.
 
It seems that dollar issues continue to be the prophylactic on the penis of progress. A shame really because many of us in the CP140 community feel we have something to offer in the overland role.
 
...at the end of the day, I bet you it really is about money, although not the way most people are  thinking about it.

...three words:  "centre wing boxes"

We'll see if the passage of time bears this out...

G2G
 
Good2Golf said:
...at the end of the day, I bet you it really is about money, although not the way most people are  thinking about it.

...three words:   "centre wing boxes"

We'll see if the passage of time bears this out...

G2G

PM inbound
 
The concept of an overland ability for the Aurora is definitely intriguing...but what about aircraft availability?  Some people have questioned whether or not there are an adequate number of airframes in service to sufficiently patrol the coasts for all of the various illegal activities that may take place - what would converting a few airframes and sending them to A-Stan do in terms of our ability to monitor our coasts??

(Question, not suggestive.)
 
CBH99 said:
what would converting a few airframes and sending them to A-Stan do in terms of our ability to monitor our coasts??

(Question, not suggestive.)

There is no conversion to make.....the aircraft does a maritime patrol one day...goes and does overland ISR the next......
 
  I doubt we could swing it, even if direction came down the pipe to send a few Auroras to Afghanistan.... which I don't think is going to happen.  Wait and see I guess. 
 
There are issues but, what do i know....i only fly on them and operate the sytems that are used for overland ISR
 
  Are you always this passive aggressive? 

  I'm familiar with what AESOP's do.  I'm certain that you have an appreciation for the limitations that we are facing with this airframe.  The systems you operate aren't going to do much good from the ramp.
 
cp140tech said:
  Are you always this passive aggressive? 

  I'm familiar with what AESOP's do.  I'm certain that you have an appreciation for the limitations that we are facing with this airframe.  The systems you operate aren't going to do much good from the ramp.

Wasnt a shot at you or anyone else...sorry if it sounded as such.  I know the other issues pretty well.....i've been CNX'd alot !!!  :(
 
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