At CFLRS St Jean right now.

[EasyCo]

Exactly so when the OCDT's and PTE(R)'s finish their EO's they begin towrds their PO's ASAP so they can be PC'd at the CFLRS or they're RTUd and have to be RC'd on another BMQ/BOQ. One day they might become VIPs but keep that on the DL lest someone goes AWOL and everything turns FUBAR.

Is it English? Sort of.

Nice, I liked that one!

 

[Heatwave]

PO = performance objective
EO = Enabeling objective

Thanks for that clarification on my glaring error aesop081, and my apologies to those I may have mislead, albeit temporarily.  I realized my error shortly after my post, but I've been away from a computer up until this point.  I was hoping someone would catch it.

Great work on the acronyms and abbreviations Che.  That is one thing you learn quickly during BMQ/BOQ, there sure are a lot of them.

Chimo!

 

[Huggy]

Well Holy crap  

some where in there I got lost   :-[

Lets start with the

Attitude, you get 3 and then you're out - don't tell your Platoon Commander or Section Commander, or ANYONE to f-off, or roll your eyes or anything like that. Simple.

PO failure - you get 3 and you get booted or recoursed, if you fail a big test, like captains inspection or like....weapons test or first aid test, crap like that. Don't fail anything, when they tell you to study, just study....everything is multiple choice anyhow..so yeah..nuff said.

Directives..you will probobly get at least one, some people in our platoon have none, some have like 5 or 6 and are on their way out...some have 1.. if there is any trick to not getting directives its pay attention to detail, follow every command word for word and listen.

so... where are the push-up????  

From whatI have read all over (no just this topic) Everything in the army has its place from your boots to the fold on your bed sheets, so if you don't put your boots in the right place you get a Directive???   I can understand the use of this but if someone one day missplaces there boots(put them on the right side of the bed and not the left) and maybe the next day in a rush puts a 12.5 " fold on the sheet when it need to be a 12" fold thats 2 directives   :-X    I guess after some time it just becomes habbit and you do everything with out thinking of it.


Next....

PO = performance objective
EO = Enabeling objective

Example of PO would be "fire infantry weapons" ( PO 404)

The EO's for that would be something like

C7 (404.01)
C6 (404.02)

????? so when some one says 404 they mean fire your weapon????   They give you orders in by numbers??? thats a ALOT to remember????  

 

[chrisf]

Is it English? Sort of.

HUA (American admittedly, but I'm sure those that understood your scentance understand my reply)

 

[aesop081]

Well Holy crap  

some where in there I got lost   :-[

Lets start with the
????? so when some one says 404 they mean fire your weapon????   They give you orders in by numbers??? thats a ALOT to remember????  

NO they dont.. Its just that in the CTP( course training plan) ( for any courses) all that you will be taught is listed and each subject has a number.  This is where my example comes from. For example, at CFSME some of the POs in the CTP sounded like this:

PO 307 Bridge classification
PO 308 Conduct route reconaissance
PO 303 Conduct general gap reconaisance

(not sure about the numbers...its been a while since i taught there)

and so on......

This is not to say , in my previous wepons example that you are gonna be told a number and expected to do something.  Often , the daily schedule for a course will list what POs you are doing that day so you know what you will need.

Hope i clarified my remarks better this time

 

[Huggy]

Yes, yes it does.... thanks aesop081

still one more question, where are the push - up??
Don't you get to do push-ups if you do somthing wrong? 

 

[aesop081]

Of course you get to do push-ups..........specially if you do something wrong.  I used to give them out to mustudents like they were going out of style !!!  There's no PO for that.........its just part of the game.  Don't worry yourself you jedi...you'll get to do lots of push-ups............for all sorts of reasons >

 

[Meridian]

Out of curiosity.. .when you were giving them out, did you always do them WITH the troops?

Loved that about my IAP PC....  always did the pushups with us. ALWAYS. And the runs, and everything he ever asked us to do.

Except for the moves. Moving your stuff between rooms at the Mega is never fun. Esp. when its as a punishment and you have tons of other stuff to do.

 

[aesop081]

Out of curiosity.. .when you were giving them out, did you always do them WITH the troops?

Loved that about my IAP PC....   always did the pushups with us. ALWAYS. And the runs, and everything he ever asked us to do.

Except for the moves. Moving your stuff between rooms at the Mega is never fun. Esp. when its as a punishment and you have tons of other stuff to do.

As i have said i other posts on this site, i would never have someone do something that i would not/cannot do myself !!  There are occasions where i did not do them with the troops but 99% of the time i did them as well...........lead by example is something i firmly beleive in!  This beng said, there are times where, as an istructor, you have to "correct" students on their behaviour and cannot be doing push-ups with them, but this should be a very, very rare exception.  But there was always a point to the oush-ups, i never gave push-ups that did not serve a purpose ( on the combat engineer course students have to lift very heavy bridge parts......in the lead-in to that phase, we use push-ups as corrective training in order to prepare the students for building bridges)

 

[Meridian]

Good to hear! 

For myself at least, I knew it was that much harder for me to quit out of pushups when my Captain was out in front of me still doing them with us. Sure some people will try to cheat given that he cant see it all, but usually there was an instructor or two around checking for that anyway....

I just found it interesting because our Sgts NEVER did any of the "corrective measures" with us, whereas the Captain ALWAYS did.

 

[aesop081]

Good to hear!  

For myself at least, I knew it was that much harder for me to quit out of pushups when my Captain was out in front of me still doing them with us. Sure some people will try to cheat given that he cant see it all, but usually there was an instructor or two around checking for that anyway....

I just found it interesting because our Sgts NEVER did any of the "corrective measures" with us, whereas the Captain ALWAYS did.

There are "corrective measure" thats we used that i, as an instrutor , simply would not be doing.  The reason for this was always that they were used to induce stress on the students during training of some kind or another.  The situation dictates the instructor's level of involvement.......never punish just for the sake of punishement ! Corrective training must have a purpose....wether it is apparent to the student is another question !!!

 

[Meridian]

Oh, I recognize this. My point is simply that if we went out on a run with the Captain, he'd do it all with us. If we went out on a run with one of the Sgts... he wouldn't... Some of the time he would... but often not.

Anyway, Im sure most instructors are like you and my Captain and involve themselves whenever it is instructionally possible. My comments were more for future-to-be instructors to think about.

 

[aesop081]

Sounds good to me 

 

[Huggy]

Of course you get to do push-ups..........specially if you do something wrong. I used to give them out to mustudents like they were going out of style !!! There's no PO for that.........its just part of the game. Don't worry yourself you jedi...you'll get to do lots of push-ups............for all sorts of reasons >

Well, to this I'm not worried.
I'm just kinda think that the min. for push-ups is 19 for a under 31 male (i think) this seems kinda low, so what happens if you are asked or you do something wrong and are asked to do, oh say 30 push-up and you get to number 24 and you can't feel your arms. do you get in more troble??? and get a PO???
Like I can't see someone asking you to do something or keep doing something that your not able to do and then get in crap for it.... it was just something that keeps comming up in my mind. MORE PUSH UPS, MORE, MORE, MORE!!!!!

 

[aesop081]

Well, to this I'm not worried.
I'm just kinda think that the min. for push-ups is 19 for a under 31 male (i think) this seems kinda low, so what happens if you are asked or you do something wrong and are asked to do, oh say 30 push-up and you get to number 24 and you can't feel your arms. do you get in more troble??? and get a PO???
Like I can't see someone asking you to do something or keep doing something that your not able to do and then get in crap for it.... it was just something that keeps comming up in my mind. MORE PUSH UPS, MORE, MORE, MORE!!!!!

I think that you are missing the overall point here so before i go off on leave i will reply to this.  19 push-ups is a MINIMUM !!!!!  I have no time for soldiers satisfied with acheiving only the minimum.  This being said, instructors (at least myself and those i have worked with) are not stupid.  The first day of course i do not expect you to do 50 push-ups but by the time i am done with you ( ie end of course) it should not be a problem at all. I know when i should have you do 20 and when i should have you do 50.....i can tell when its time......so yes you will get some crap if you can't do it. Fear not.....you will do it

 

[sirmckinnon]

hey, little input,
I was never once forced to do push-ups(not even on inspection) I would do them for myself and that was it. although some instructors love to give them out, so i guess it really depends on your staff.

 

[CL84]

There have been times where we have done alot of pushups let me tell ya. It DOES depend on your staff mainly. It depends what class you have too. I remember going into drill with our favourite mcpl, and he's a great great instructor, but if we make him mad...(when he gets mad the infantry comes out as he says) and we do pushups. We've done pushups for making other instructors mad too. After inspection we can do pushups on our own time and ask permission to recover, after 10 or after 50, doesn't matter. It all depends on your staff, but from what I've seen, you only really do pushups if you screw up alot..so..if you don't want to do them, don't mess up...and if you do want to do them, don't complain about directives and ask for more pushups..we had one guy do that..and well..he got pushups and a directive.. lol

 

[sirmckinnon]

ya, best advice I can think of is just go with the flow, if they single you out(they will) thats when they want to see what your made out of,,, keep in mind the people instructing are all experienced operators, and they have mostly had their ass on the line at one point or another, therefore they concider your ass covering their ass in a future setting, so dont try to stand apart from your platoon, cuz, then there just going to make you do some awful thing for taking your own initive, the best line is "If you want to lead, the leadership school is right down the MEGA, now grab a broom and start sweeping!"

anyhoo, just dont use ignorince as an excuse,,,,,,,,definatly not the right answer

 

[bigwig]

Oh no the best is when the PSP staff makes you stay in squad position and push up position for certain ammounts of time. I swear those PSP staff guys think theyre god... The most push ups you will do is for not pissing off your instructors (because they have to do them with you) Its when u piss off the PSP staff because they DONT have to do them with you... Im sure CL84 can back me up on this one.... EH LAPOINTE! ahaha good times man

PSP Staff "whats my name!?"
Pte Bloggins - "FRENCH GUY!?"
PSP Staff - "wrong! push up position.... CHANGE!"
LOL

 

[CL84]

Ah yes... Mr Change. I remember, and we will remember him throughout the rest of our career no doubt. Yes, for some reason the staff that do pt with you try to be harder than your instructors, but you will run into some instructors that make fun of the staff there, if you listen you'll hear them insult them. Anyways, yes, I remember the pushup position, or the squat position...I'll be sure to do a nice big impression of him during our grad party...or during our breaks like I normally do... here goes..lol

Staff....hmm..we'll call him staff...D..no no..thats too obvious..how bout..S. Ducheane: "I am in a position of pow-ah...I might be considered a sgt..perhaps even a captain....or maybe even a general..so don't piss me off....you -ave- tirty seconds to stretch, then get in the against the wall squating super position....ready...CHANGE!!"...

If you've been there, you know who I'm talking about. lol.

Anyways, hooray for pushups. If you are complaining about having to do them..I think you should think about where you are or if you aren't there  yet..where you will be going and what you'll be doing.

CHANGE!