Army Reserve Restructuring

[RangerRay]

For most people the Reservists is the closest they ever see the military, so in a sense the are the "military". That is a direct result of moving the Infantry units away from major urban centres.

My town had a reserve unit, but everyone thought I was moving away when I told them I joined the army reserve. Most people have no idea there’s an army unit in town.

Even here in Winnipeg with a bigger army reserve footprint, most people I talk to seem unaware of their presence.

 

[MilEME09]

My town had a reserve unit, but everyone thought I was moving away when I told them I joined the army reserve. Most people have no idea there’s an army unit in town.

Even here in Winnipeg with a bigger army reserve footprint, most people I talk to seem unaware of their presence.

And just like the rest of the reserves 38 CBG is multiple shades of red in terms of TES and ES. Our recruitment strategy is almost non existent in most places. Combine that with our manning issues at the school, and it's no light at the end of the tunnel. I just lost my last trained tech to CT, benefit to the forces but losing my last weapons tech is a problem. One that I don't foresee a new tech trained for 3 years.

 

[Eaglelord17]

I'm a firm proponent of moving the majority of the army into urban centres. Do that and cut down on postings - preferably to zero postings - and you might in time eliminate the recruiting and retention problem.

Until we can’t afford to have troops in the cities and we expend a ton regularly to get them to the field.

The areas with the worst housing prices are the areas we historically have the most issues.

The best thing the CAF can do to solve the retention problem is to build on base housing today. When troops can’t afford to live they won’t stick around. My apartment I had in Halifax in 2014 for 900$ now goes for 2100$ and it isn’t even a particularly good place. How is a recruit expected to really afford to live when thats what it costs and you can’t get cheap on base housing? Why stay in when your barely scraping by?

Obviously on base housing doesn’t resolve all issues but its a start for some of the biggest ones.

Zero postings isn’t always a good thing. If you like where you are its a good thing, but if you don’t its hell and can lead to releases. I remember meeting army supply techs on the ships who wanted to be anywhere else and were getting super fit to be parachute riggers as it was the only way at the time to really get posted out of Halifax.

No idea if any of them made it, but they all said they would release when their contracts were up if they weren’t posted by then.

 

[MilEME09]

Until we can’t afford to have troops in the cities and we expend a ton regularly to get them to the field.

The areas with the worst housing prices are the areas we historically have the most issues.

The best thing the CAF can do to solve the retention problem is to build on base housing today. When troops can’t afford to live they won’t stick around. My apartment I had in Halifax in 2014 for 900$ now goes for 2100$ and it isn’t even a particularly good place. How is a recruit expected to really afford to live when thats what it costs and you can’t get cheap on base housing? Why stay in when your barely scraping by?

Obviously on base housing doesn’t resolve all issues but its a start for some of the biggest ones.

Zero postings isn’t always a good thing. If you like where you are its a good thing, but if you don’t its hell and can lead to releases. I remember meeting army supply techs on the ships who wanted to be anywhere else and were getting super fit to be parachute riggers as it was the only way at the time to really get posted out of Halifax.

No idea if any of them made it, but they all said they would release when their contracts were up if they weren’t posted by then.

I agree we need more housing, in the thousands of units, even in urban centers for RSS postings, DND should build a dozen or so homes. Hell use the tiny house model and convert sea containers. With a central storage building for people's kit.

As for postings, I am class A so I don't know that life, but from the outside looking in, it doesn't seem fair some can spend a whole career jumping between units at CFB Edmonton, and others are on a new base every 4 years. Perhaps we should overhaul how we post? Maybe increase from 4 to 6 years, or make posting only happen on promotion or by operational need?

 

[daftandbarmy]

Until we can’t afford to have troops in the cities and we expend a ton regularly to get them to the field.

We already have thousands of troops in every major urban centre across Canada: Reservists.

Housing's not a problem as it turns out

 

[FJAG]

Until we can’t afford to have troops in the cities and we expend a ton regularly to get them to the field.

We used to bus in reserve units from all over southern Ontario to Petawawa for weekend exercises and had the gear laid out for them on the parade square. No problem. It was even easier for summer concentrations.

The areas with the worst housing prices are the areas we historically have the most issues.

And yet over 6 million people live in the greater Metro Toronto area, many of them with jobs that don't pay as well as the military. Get your recruits young while they live at home with mom and dad - let them in time find a working spouse and with two salaries they can get on the property ladder. Don't post him so the spouse can develop a career. Let them stay close to their childhood family and friends and build a decent extended family and social life.

When they gets on the career ladder and there isn't a promotion in the local area, let them stay in their present position and rank - maybe with a pay boost to sweeten retention. And spread out facilities that are concentrated so that they can be performed from more than one location and it no longer becomes necessary to post people to distant isolated locations.

The problems arise when you take someone from outside a large city and post them in where they get hit by the costs, no nearby family and a spouse trying to find a job - yeah - I can see where that is a problem.

The best thing the CAF can do to solve the retention problem is to build on base housing today

Unless policies have changed since my day, government housing rent prices were set at the local rate. Again, the instability of how long someone stays on a posting makes it difficult to buy locally and not everyone wants to own a house near an base they may not be at a few years down the road.

Our base model hasn't changed much since the 1950s and our career models still run that way as well.

All that said, if you thin out the bases and move people into urban units then there will be sufficient PMQs available for those left. In addition I wholeheartedly agree that the military should offer sufficient housing including options in urban areas. Downsview is looking a little tight these days but it looks like you could still squeeze a few condos in there before someone sells it off. Vaughan looks like a good spot too. Short drive to Borden and Meaford.

 

[Rifleman62]

Is the government not distributing big bucks to cities for housing or not? Yes, it is but military housing represents zero votes. IMHO lack of military housing, either barrack modules or PMQ's modules is part and parcel to inhibit retention/recruiting. Gov't then throws up it's hands saying we don't need a military as nobody is interested.

 

[mariomike]

Get your recruits young while they live at home with mom and dad -

I joined the RCASC ( PRes ) when I was 16. All the boys on our GMT / BMQ were the same age. Because we were still in high school, we had no professional "Life Experience". We were "moldable". There were no internet chat rooms to ask for advice.

We used to bus in reserve units from all over southern Ontario to Petawawa for weekend exercises and had the gear laid out for them on the parade square.

As Transport Operators / MSE Ops, we drove our M135s to Borden, Meaford, Pet and Fort Drum, N.Y.

Fort Drum was an eye opener. We got to meet the U.S. Army Motor Transport Operators, and the trucks they worked with.

 

[KevinB]

The biggest questions is what do you want from a PRes System. Once you answer that question, you can work on a reformation to accomplish that.

Right now the CA doesn’t seem to know what it wants from the Army Reserves - and as such they’re in no hurry to make any changes (on either side).

 

[FJAG]

The biggest questions is what do you want from a PRes System. Once you answer that question, you can work on a reformation to accomplish that.

Right now the CA doesn’t seem to know what it wants from the Army Reserves - and as such they’re in no hurry to make any changes (on either side).

I both agree and disagree. I think the military knows what they want and what they are getting is cheap and good enough for their purposes - a pool of Class Bs and the occasional bulking out of the ranks with Class Cs on ops. The Class As are just a pool to generate the Bs and Cs.

On the other hand, I think that is shortsighted and misses most of the value that a reserve force brings through well trained and equipped Class As. But there is the rub - well trained and equipped equals $ taken away from the RegF.

Is the government not distributing big bucks to cities for housing or not? Yes, it is but military housing represents zero votes. IMHO lack of military housing, either barrack modules or PMQ's modules is part and parcel to inhibit retention/recruiting. Gov't then throws up it's hands saying we don't need a military as nobody is interested.

Military housing doesn't need grants. The rental industry exists because people can make a buck developing properties and renting them out. Military housing is on the no-brainer side of the business because you can set up guaranteed rental payments and have control over the way renters maintain the property. Even financing the original construction can be at a no interest rate basis. The most difficult issue is the scale of development as you don't want too many vacant units and you don't really want to rent vacant units out to the public at large. I expect the biggest issue would be setting a rental rate different from the market rate (if you want to ) and the yapping from competing civilian property managers. Personally I have no problem in telling those people to shut their cakeholes unless or until they have kids who are serving in the ranks.

 

[Halifax Tar]

The biggest questions is what do you want from a PRes System. Once you answer that question, you can work on a reformation to accomplish that.

Right now the CA doesn’t seem to know what it wants from the Army Reserves - and as such they’re in no hurry to make any changes (on either side).

Kevin, I have to disagree. The ARes is doing exactly what the RegF wants. Provide individual augmentation and an in route to the regular Army.

To me the biggest issue is the ARes and their regimental mafias themselves.

 

[Blackadder1916]

Military housing doesn't need grants. The rental industry exists because people can make a buck developing properties and renting them out. Military housing is on the no-brainer side of the business because you can set up guaranteed rental payments and have control over the way renters maintain the property. Even financing the original construction can be at a no interest rate basis. The most difficult issue is the scale of development as you don't want too many vacant units and you don't really want to rent vacant units out to the public at large. I expect the biggest issue would be setting a rental rate different from the market rate (if you want to ) and the yapping from competing civilian property managers. Personally I have no problem in telling those people to shut their cakeholes unless or until they have kids who are serving in the ranks.

What you're describing is "cooperative housing". The closest thing that I've seen on the military side was the "Self Help Housing" (SHH) that was (still is?) on Uplands. It was the best deal that I ever had. Back in the 80s (when I lived there), it was restricted to junior ranks, though if you were promoted while living there, you could remain until promoted to WO when you had to move. Rent was not tied to rank, everybody paid the same. It was determined by the actual expenses to operate the organization - which, when we lived there, included all utilities, maintenance, the share of PILT and the paying down of the loan from Central Fund that was used to build them in the 60s.

We paid considerably less rent than those living in PMQs and since we did not occupy a PMQ, also received "Accommodation Assistance Allowance" (AAA) back when that was a thing, just like those who rented on the economy.

The only downside I see with having a military "co-op housing" organization would be the tendency of the chain of command wanting to be involved. Housing co-ops are governed by the residents, if you don't live there you don't have a say in how it runs. Of course, co-ops are treated differently depending on the province but they can be a legal vehicle to restrict residency to military only.

 

[Remius]

Kevin, I have to disagree. The ARes is doing exactly what the RegF wants. Provide individual augmentation and an in route to the regular Army.

To me the biggest issue is the ARes and their regimental mafias themselves.

I’m curious about the regimental mafias and what they are doing.

Are there current examples? Is it rampant and consistant? Or localized issues?

What specifically are they stopping or enabling?

 

[KevinB]

Kevin, I have to disagree. The ARes is doing exactly what the RegF wants. Provide individual augmentation and an in route to the regular Army.

To me the biggest issue is the ARes and their regimental mafias themselves.

If that is actually what the CA wants, then there is no need for anything larger than a Coy in the PRes.

I disagree with both you and @FJAG that the CA really knows what it wants from the PRes.

At best it’s confused vision, where the CA doesn’t want to rock any boats to set the PRes up for success.

 

[markppcli]

If that is actually what the CA wants, then there is no need for anything larger than a Coy in the PRes.

I disagree with both you and @FJAG that the CA really knows what it wants from the PRes.

At best it’s confused vision, where the CA doesn’t want to rock any boats to set the PRes up for success.

I tend to agree with you, but I think it’s not that the Army doesn’t know what it wants out of the reserves. It’s quite simply that the CAF doesn’t think it’s worth the effort to change the structure of the reserves.

 

[KevinB]

I tend to agree with you, but I think it’s not that the Army doesn’t know what it wants out of the reserves. It’s quite simply that the CAF doesn’t think it’s worth the effort to change the structure of the reserves.

In a budget tight environment, one would think the CA specifically would be looking to cut out as much dead wood as one can.

I suspect that one Reg Force Maj could do the job of several Res Maj and LCol’s - and save money to boot.

Axe the PRes ranks above Capt - have the Res Coy’s run by a Capt. Have the RegF Maj and MWO look after 6 or so PRes Coy.

Max rank in the PRes Capt and WO respectively.

Save money and have both Reg Force augmentees at the individual to Platoon ability.

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

I suspect that one Reg Force Maj could do the job of several Res Maj and LCol’s - and save money to boot.

It depends on how you mean this. If you mean that because the Reg Force Major is on full time he/she can accomplish more, then yes, fine. But if you means that it is because he/she is Reg Force vs. Res Force, then I think you may be in for a surprise.

My personal experience is that Res Force senior officers, who usually are working professionals in civil life, can do about twice as much proper staff work or similar work than their Reg Force counter parts in any given hour of work.

I once, jokingly but barely, told people who asked the Naval Reserve officers what they could have done during the Gulf War that we could have taken over the shore staff jobs at Halifax and freed the Reg Force for service, but they probably would not have liked that because, coming back after 6 months, they would have found two to three years of staff work done for them in the meantime.

 

[Kirkhill]

In a budget tight environment, one would think the CA specifically would be looking to cut out as much dead wood as one can.

I suspect that one Reg Force Maj could do the job of several Res Maj and LCol’s - and save money to boot.

Axe the PRes ranks above Capt - have the Res Coy’s run by a Capt. Have the RegF Maj and MWO look after 6 or so PRes Coy.

Max rank in the PRes Capt and WO respectively.

Save money and have both Reg Force augmentees at the individual to Platoon ability.

And focus on the basics - turn out a disciplined body of troops that can march, drive, communicate, navigate, save lives, handle tools and shoot.

If the army wants machine gunners or cannoneers it can call for volunteers and train them for the task.

 

[markppcli]

It depends on how you mean this. If you mean that because the Reg Force Major is on full time he/she can accomplish more, then yes, fine. But if you means that it is because he/she is Reg Force vs. Res Force, then I think you may be in for a surprise.

My personal experience is that Res Force senior officers, who usually are working professionals in civil life, can do about twice as much proper staff work or similar work than their Reg Force counter parts in any given hour of work.

I once, jokingly but barely, told people who asked the Naval Reserve officers what they could have done during the Gulf War that we could have taken over the shore staff jobs at Halifax and freed the Reg Force for service, but they probably would not have liked that because, coming back after 6 months, they would have found two to three years of staff work done for them in the meantime.

Of course most of that staff work would be done incorrectly, as the “working professionals” of the reserves typically have less than stellar understanding of how the institution of the military functions. That’s why we have working professional staff officers.

What Kevin means is clearly that a full time officer can do a lot more, especially when they live gone through the full training and education in understanding how the Army works and how to actually manage humans.

 

[Remius]

Of course most of that staff work would be done incorrectly, as the “working professionals” of the reserves typically have less than stellar understanding of how the institution of the military functions. That’s why we have working professional staff officers.

What Kevin means is clearly that a full time officer can do a lot more, especially when they live gone through the full training and education in understanding how the Army works and how to actually manage humans.

Given the current state of the CAF, I would say that human management isn’t exactly a feature at all levels right now…