Armoured Reconnaissance (Reserves)

[Rob]

Hi everyone,

This is my first post on this great site.  I registered a few months ago but haven't posted up till now because, quite frankly, I haven't needed to...all my questions have been answered by browsing the forum, checking out the superb FAQ threads, and just by using the Search button.  So hats off to the site admins and the many helpful forum regulars.

Now, for my question:

I am just about to hand in my application for the Reserves.  However, I am still torn between which trade to choose - Infantry or Armoured Recce.

I like the challenging physical aspect of the Infantry as well as the diversity of tasks.  On the other hand, I am very intrigued by the role of reconnaissance, the cross-country mobility, and the use of high-tech equipment for Armoured Recce.

I have an Infantry and an Armoured Recce Regiment in my area and spoken with the recruiter from each.  The recruiter from the Armoured Recce Regiment was very helpful and certainly did a better job of "selling" the trade to me.  He showed a flashy presentation, gave a tour of the armoury and museum, and let us handle some of the different weapons, etc.  They way he described the trade made it seem like it is the best of both worlds --- you get to do Infantry-style dismounted patrols as well as in-vehicle recce work.  Furthermore, he showed us a lot of high-tech equipment that we would get to use (night-vision googles, infared scope, GPS, comm radio, etc).

Basically, my question is how much of it was just hype and him being a good "salesman"? 

- Do you really get to do many foot patrols, or are you in your vehicle almost all the time?
- Do you use high-tech equipment very often, or is it only brought out in rare occasions?
- In terms of the recce role itself, does a lot of it consist of just staying in one position for long periods of time scouting an area, or is it very dynamic, constantly moving, and requiring a lot of creativity and flexibilty on the part of the soldiers?

In addition, I would likely do BMQ and SQ back-to-back in the summer and have to do MOC training the year after.  In the time in between, what kind of role would I be limited to?  Are you only assigned to a vehicle crew once you have completed you MOC training?

If those of you who are Armoured Recce soldiers could shed some light on this from your personal experience, I would really appreciate it


Thanks in advance

 

[Hazard_duke]

hey Buddy.  I'm somewhat new to Armoured Recce (2 years but first trg year fully trained).  And to most of your questions the answer is yes.

Yes- we do go on alot of foot patrols. But yes we do stay in out jeeps/truck/vehiclaes (whatever you want to call them) alot.  Depending on what the objective of the exercise is.  If it's to concentrate on dismounted patrols, then you're gonna use those black-caddy's alot. But if it's route recces (especially with 20+ km traces) then you'll be in the vehcile alot (unless you're the GIB (guy in back). YES-We do use alot of the high-tech equiptment on ex's.  The NODLR (dunno what it spells out, basically it's a heat imaging device) is used alot on OP's.  On night time foot patrols and night driving we use NVG's (altho the depth in NVG's suck..) and pretty much every vehicle gets issued PLGRs(military heavy-duty GPS units) in Recce we use the term "max-flex" which means we have to be very flexible in every situation.  So we can do alot of stuff mounted and dismounted. 

Right now i think it would be a great time to be a new troopie in a Resver Armoured RECCE Reg't.  You'll get all the gucci kit (CADPAT, TV, Wet Weather boots...etc) and training o the new G-Wagens when they get to your unit (unless your a Cougar Reg't) and you have none of the "old school" teaching to confuse the crap outta you.  Like I said, I've been a black hatter for 2 years now and i love it!  I defianlty recommend it.  good luck!

 

[Rob]

Hey Hazard, thanks for the reply

That sounds great!!   Thats what I was hoping to hear.   I was leaning towards Armoured Recce and now I think that clinches it!


Cheers

 

[eliteboris]

You Will also get to do OP (observation post) and Evasion techniques. Reece has alot of lee way when it comes to kit as well you can bring alot of your own stuff. Like your own tac vests and smocks.

 

[Spanky]

Bringing your own kit is pretty much a unit thing.  Some allow it others don't same for infantry.  Hazard duke is right on the money as far as describing flexibility required for recce.  Good Luck 

 

[Gayson]

I'm in an armoured Recce unit.

So far this year since september the last 4 weekend ex's have all been on foot working on patrolling.   This could be could because we are in the middle of switching from the iltis and G-Wagon.

We have used some high-tech equipment so far this year, but nothing really special.   The GPS is cool, but I am personally thinking about buying my own civvie one that can display maps.   The night vision is cool, but seems to be rare.   Things in it are fuzzy and you have to focus it at different ranges.   For me NVG's can be useful however I usually find my eyes to work in the dark just as well (unless we are trying to tramp through a forest in the middle of the night).

As an armoured recce soldier you could expect to be moving a lot and sitting a lot.   Even on a dismounted recce patrol you could find yourself sitting in one spot acting as a security element for other guys on your patrol.   Don't worry though, sometimes sitting around in an OP can be A LOT more fun than moving around because their are times when the enemy can just stumble into your general area.

With only your BMQ and SQ you could be an observer in a vehicle, a rifleman on a patrol or working some job in The Squadron Headquarters troop.

Armoured Recce can be very physically demanding at times as well.   Just last weekend my regiment held a 36km patrolling competition.   Teams had to ruck the entire distance and compete at stands along the way.   Teams from the 48highlanders and the Windsor regiment came to join us in the competition.   It took me about 20 hours of humping to complete, never had I been so physically exhausted.

I love my trade, especially when on a dismounted patrol.   I get a crazy fun rush when I am spying on or hiding from an enemy of greater power mere meters away.

 

[Rob]

Thanks for the replies everybody!!

I'm definately going with Armoured Recce.  I got my application all filled out and ready to hand in today.

Sounds like I am in for a great challenge and a lot of excitement!  I can't wait!!!!!  ;D


Cheers

 

[Lost_Warrior]

Hey Gayson, did the QYRANG's get G-Wagons yet?

Iltis are supposed to be phased out.  My unit lost all of ours.  We were using rented vehicles for awhile.  Now we got a fleet of MilCots to hold us off until June when we're supposed to get our G-Wagons.

And to add to something Gayson said, OP's can be fun, but they can also be boring.  I had times when I sat there for 2 hours and nothing happened, but I also had times where I was sitting in a bush, and an element from the US Vermont National Guard go dirving by doing manuvers, or sitting there and watch as other units patroling in front of you get into a firefight.  You get to sit there and watch the light show.

 

[Gayson]

No, we still have some Iltis laying around, many of them scrounged from other units and such that don't need them.

Apprently the unit is getting ready to send off the crew commanders on the G-Wagon conversion course.  I have heard that we should be getting them for next training year, I'll believe it when I see it.

 

[Rob]

Hi everyone,

Well I handed in my application and got a call from the CFRC exactly one week later to schedule my Aptitude Test for January 5th.   So everything seems to be rolling along smoothly so far.   Thanks again to all of you for sharing your experiences and advice.

Right now I'm in the process of collecting all my required documentation so I can hand it all in on the day of my CFAT.   One of the documents is the 'Preparing For Your Interview' guide.   In this guide, they ask some questions regarding the trade you are apply for and the training involved.   I've been doing some research, but there are a couple things I am still not clear on:

As I understand it, training is now divided into Development Periods (DP).   DP1 includes BMQ, SQ, and Occupational training.   Is this correct?   Also, once you are sworn in to your unit, you are given the rank of Private(Recruit)...once you have completed all of DP1 you are promoted to Private?

Furthermore, what is the DP1 Occupational training for Reserve Armoured Reconnaissance called and how long does last? (ie. for the Infantry its called BIQ, 20-24 training days)   Is it simply called DP1-Armoured Recce?

In addition, I am confused about the MOC for Armoured Recce.   I thought the MOC for the Armoured Soldier trade (including Recce) was R011.   However, on an information form I got from a recruiter with all the different trades on it, there is a trade called Armoured Reconnaissance Soldier and it is listed as R013.   Is this just a typo or did they officially split up the Armoured trade into a separate category for Recce?   On the CF website, there is only one trade called Armoured Soldier and its R011.   I know this isn't a big deal, but its just something that I was curious about.

-----------

Finally, unrelated to my application, I got a general question about the role of Recce that I have been wondering about.   Since the role of reconnaissance is the "art of seeing without being seen" and having read posts on this forum saying things along the lines of "if you have to engage the enemy, you're not doing your job right", am I correct to assume that for Armoured Recce soldiers, weapons are purely for the purpose of self-defence?   Is the normal doctrine that you are only to engage the enemy if you have been spotted and have been engaged by the enemy first?

Or, are there times when Commanders will call on Recce soldiers to initiate the attack?   Since Armoured Recce operates so far ahead of the rest of the force, if they spot a target which is 'time critical' or perhaps an enemy Recce force, would the Commanders normally order them to attack in such a situation, or is the doctrine to avoid engagement at all costs?

I know these are hypothetical questions and all situations are different, but it was just something I was wondering to better understand the role of Recce.  Also, forgive me if I have misused any military terminology.



Cheers

 

[Gayson]

The DP1 is 4 weeks long, 5 days a week.

AFAIK their are 2 different armoured trades.  R011 and R013.  I am an armoured recce soldier so I am R013.  Correct me if I'm wrong but I think the guys with R011 drive the cougars around.  That is however getting phased out.

 

[FGH_Recce_DJ]

Hey Rob, well thats is true if you are seen in recce your not doing your job, the role of recce is " to obtain tactical information on the enemy, there equipment and ground in all phases or war and pass it up to a higher chain of command." But yes as armoured recce you get the best of both worlds, I've been in 11 1'2 years and I've done so much stuff i can't metion it all. Now that the Iltis is being fazed out and until we get the new Gwagens we are all about footpatrols and OP's (observation posts) I'm not sure what regiment your going into but if they have the same time of guys and gals our regiment does, you'll be joining one hell of a brotherhood!!! Cheers!!

 

[Rob]

Thanks for the answers guys!

Just looking forward to the new year now and getting all the testing over and done with.  Got my fingers crossed that everything will go well.

Happy holidays to all of you!!!



Cheers

 

[Zirus]

hey Rob


these guys seem to have answered all your questions!!!

but I'm interested in knowing what regiment you have entered!!!


french or English ?
and location


thx!

 

[Brunton]

hey yeah im interested as well, cuz well keep a eye out for ya being one of the new guys comin in.

 

[ReserveRecce]

This may be a little out of date, but you asked what you would be doing between your SQ and MOQ, I am currently only BMQ qualified, with my SQ and MOQ coming back to back this summer, but in my unit since we are unable to join the troops on ex's they usually use us in the enemy force role, which usually tends to be a blast. Lots of ammo, and you get to smoke in the open ;D you won't regret choosing Armoured Recce.

 

[strat0]

It depends on the unit. Sometimes you may be an observer in the back of a veh or you could be used in the inf role as en force or just patrolling.

 

[Sharpey]

This may be a little out of date, but you asked what you would be doing between your SQ and MOQ, I am currently only BMQ qualified, with my SQ and MOQ coming back to back this summer, but in my unit since we are unable to join the troops on ex's they usually use us in the enemy force role, which usually tends to be a blast. Lots of ammo, and you get to smoke in the open ;D you won't regret choosing Armoured Recce.

That's odd, I thought BMQ level troops were not allowed in the field.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

They are allowed in the field under supervision and can only perform tasks that they have been trained on. So if they haven't had formal instruction on the coleman, you'll have to light it for them ;D

 

[strat0]

If they are not allowed in the field, how are they supposed to learn the basics? I was in the BCD from 1979 until 1985 and we used the new guys as our Assault Troop conducting Patrolling and enemy force. The basic inf techniques are suppossed to be taught ie formations and participate in patrolling etc are part of the BMQ.