Are We Raising a Generation of Helpless Kids?

[Journeyman]

Our whole society seems to have forgotten how to have the courage to say "NO".

The women around here haven't.    :'(

 

[Sadukar09]

The women around here haven't.    :'(

Or 3rd year poli sci students spelling frigate "friggit" in a paper and a presentation.....

Maybe they are writing about their feelings on the paper.
When I first immigrated here, it was a huge culture shock, especially on education. Back in China, if anyone failed, there was no coddling. Failing means going back to the farm and toiling soil all day. Here, so many chances are given, it's unbelievable. I worked for OCDSB for a while, from talking with the teachers (strangely they ARE people, not just robots they seem to be in classes), quite a few of them give out passes to students that shouldn't be passing. Same thing with marking schemes in high school report cards now. To fail a class, you literally have to try harder to fail than pass. A 50% mark pretty much means the teacher was being kind, and didn't fail you. 51% means someone tried at least.

Edit for grammar and syntax. Just finished a paper...

 

[Maxadia]

You wouldn't believe the pressure on teachers and principals to make sure students "perform" on paper (statistics).  If they're not passing, we're not doing a good job, right?

I'm sure the pressure is the same in many cases when it comes to running a CF course.

 

[Pusser]

You need only tune into "Holmes Inspection" or "Holmes on Homes" to see what paying someone $300 for a job will get you, vice paying someone who knows the rules inside out, gets all the right permits and has all the right tools $1000 for the same job.  You get what you pay for, in most cases.

Yes, you do get what you pay for, but sometimes what is being sold is far more than what you need or want.  A good example of that is when I banged the bumper on my truck a few years ago (well, actually CinC Home Fleet did it, but I digress).  All I wanted from the body shop was to bang out the dent as best they could and re-paint the bumper for rust protection - it was a pick-up truck!.  They claimed that, "it wouldn't look right" and insisted that the bumper had to be replaced (for $1000).  I found another place who did what I asked, for about $300 (funny how these numbers keep coming up the same).  The end result, yes, if you look really close, you can see that the bumper undulates a little bit, but it isn't rusty - which is ALL I wanted.

I'm a big fan of Mike Holmes and like a lot of the stuff he does, but sometimes he does go over the top.  Sometimes, "the best" is too much (and prohibitively expensive) and "good enough under the circumstances" is actually the better solution.  Perhaps if more contractors presented more options (with an explanation of the pros and cons), instead of the costliest, most expensive, "will survive the apocalypse" solution, they might a) get more business and b) discourage many customers from going to the shoddy underground trade.

As for my $300 sink installation - it works a charm and does exactly what I want it to do without any grief whatsoever.  The only reason I didn't go to my friend in the first place is because I didn't know he did plumbing as well.

 

[Scott]

Every time I walk into the armoury on a parade night, I am convinced that articles like this are wrong.

Every time I read the recruiting threads...ah fuck it, never mind.

I use some underground stuff for trades work...it depends on what I need done and if the guy is willing to bend. Sometimes it's better not to. I've educated myself enough to know the difference. As far as craftsmanship goes, I work to pretty high standards and so anyone hired by me is going to have to do the same. I vet any workmen coming to do jobs that I can't handle and the wife chases anyone that messes with us (as one idiot WETT inspector just found out...it was one of those, "Hey pal, don't look at me, I'm married to her" moments. Anyway)

There is too much coddling going on and other cultures have proven that they can best us by not putting the child as number one all the time. Hell, I still thank my lucky stars that a) Daddy told me my wrist shot sucked so I'd never make the Leafs, b) I believed him, and c) they had an injury free year that go 'round and didn't need to bring me in. I also took a look at university and decided that my time would be better spent at the coalface. Now I earn as much as my degreed and professional wife, have less stress and more time off plus the added (sometimes) bonus of shiploads of travel on the company dime. Then again, I worked for it

 

[Maxadia]

There needs to be an allowance for consequences to happen.  And unfortunately, there isn't. 

We're not supposed to put zeros on report cards anymore....unless it's marked as missing and we are actively chasing the student for it.  Which many teachers do.  I try to put consequences in place so that I'm not chasing them, but not everyone does.  Students realize with some teachers that if they don't do it now, they can always do it later.

 

[Danjanou]

As well as having a skill to barter -- there's a whole tax-free sub-economy of people trading marketable skills/chores.


Sorry kids, it doesn't matter what your Marxist Labour history prof (who's never seen a callus or blister in his life) tells you, you're not likely to get someone to upgrade your kitchen plumbing in exchange for a rivetting paper on Foucault's economic theories.

mine did but I had to toss in a couple of low fat skim double lattes. 8)

 

[Delaney1986]

Kids have no fear anymore! They aren't afraid of their parents, or teachers, or failing because no one has taught them to look at the bigger picture.
Having three nieces, 15, 13, 11 and a nephew, 11 I do a lot of head shaking. They rarely have to earn anything, they just find a way to barter or beg until they get it, this transfers over to schools. Everyone knows if you get a bad grade and go talk to your teacher you can likely get the grade increased. Sometimes it's "iffy" in University because the prof often isn't even the one marking the exams  :.
Oh and by this point I have done both, University and College...after my experience in College (very similar to high school but with people being allowed to actually yell at each other things like "F*ck off!" in the middle of class) I would run screaming back to University had I not already invested so much money....and if I didn't need this course to get into MP...

 

[George Wallace]

The truly scary thing about this is that if the CF follows along with this development, we will see more courses with 100% Pass rates.  I have seen where CTC has already done this in the past with officer Phase courses.  Not necessarily a good thing.  End result for us is that LIVES are actually ON THE LINE. 

 

[Fishbone Jones]

While it may be bad for the country, as a whole, and bad specifically for my province, I can relish in the thought that I will only become more important to my employer, given the quality of people entering today's workforce.

I don't expect to be pressured to 'move on' and create an opening or end up with some out of touch 20 something as my boss. I will actually start to become a valued commodity.

Finally, on that last day, I can probably feel secure that I will be truly missed, if for no other reason than the fact that anyone replacing me is probably an idiotic dweeb, with no work ethic and a three year university diploma that equates to grade 10 my time. ;D

 

[vonGarvin]

The truly scary thing about this is that if the CF follows along with this development, we will see more courses with 100% Pass rates.  I have seen where CTC has already done this in the past with officer Phase courses.  Not necessarily a good thing.  End result for us is that LIVES are actually ON THE LINE.

That was the case, for a while (close to 100% pass rate).  That's no longer the case.

 

[Maxadia]

That was the case, for a while (close to 100% pass rate).  That's no longer the case.

That's good to hear.

 

[Scott]

My wife recently started teaching at the local University - an entry level engineering course for a feeder program. She just administered her first test and was horrified that only a couple of people passed and some marks were abysmal and so she was contemplating adjusting things (like omitting marks for one question in particular) to adjust the curve - thinking she had been too hard on them. She asked me my thoughts and mine are simple: I don't want them, in their first year, to start seeing adjustments like this and I wouldn't want someone who has had benefit of said adjustments building any bridge I might cross.

She spoke to her department head and he felt the same as I did ;D

 

[vonGarvin]

To clarify the previous statement I made, we do NOT aim to fail a certain % either.  Our goal actually is 100% pass rate.  This means that we try our best to pass on the skills required.  Sometimes, in spite of all the previous effort put into a person who arrives at the School, and in spite of them passing all previous courses, the course we have them on is just a step too far for them.

My wife recently started teaching at the local University - an entry level engineering course for a feeder program. She just administered her first test and was horrified that only a couple of people passed and some marks were abysmal and so she was contemplating adjusting things (like omitting marks for one question in particular) to adjust the curve - thinking she had been too hard on them. She asked me my thoughts and mine are simple: I don't want them, in their first year, to start seeing adjustments like this and I wouldn't want someone who has had benefit of said adjustments building any bridge I might cross.
She spoke to her department head and he felt the same as I did ;D

Very good point.

 

[The Bread Guy]

My wife recently started teaching at the local University - an entry level engineering course for a feeder program. She just administered her first test and was horrified that only a couple of people passed and some marks were abysmal and so she was contemplating adjusting things (like omitting marks for one question in particular) to adjust the curve - thinking she had been too hard on them. She asked me my thoughts and mine are simple: I don't want them, in their first year, to start seeing adjustments like this and I wouldn't want someone who has had benefit of said adjustments building any bridge I might cross.

She spoke to her department head and he felt the same as I did ;D

Good to see someone in "the system" backing that idea - it's NOT the same everywhere.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

;D

 

[Maxadia]

 

[daftandbarmy]

That was the case, for a while (close to 100% pass rate).  That's no longer the case.

.... unless you happen to be in the Franco platoon  ;D

 

[RememberanceDay]

As part of today's youth, I must add my two cents.

There's the REALLY, REALLY good, well-rounded, talented kids, who are upstanding, hard-working students who are the ones that teachers and adults love.

THEN, there's the mediocre kids who are average everything. Average marks, get their community hours done with a few extras maybe. Often overlooked, majority of kids.

And then, we've got the bottom of the barrel. The ones who drink and are consistently stoned to another world. Never show up for school, when they do, they're boneheads.

The list above is in reverse order of rarity. The boneheads are all to common. I hesitate, but I will use myself as an example for one.

I'm 15, and I have consistently good/high marks, take academic classes, founder of the debate team at my school, as well as a Clean up the Creek founder/organizer, RCSCadet (Range team, Assit Drill Cap, Seamanship team), Consistent volunteer at the local museum... I'm not really talented, but I've also been blessed with opportunities. I was home schooled by my mother, and then the year that I choose to go back to public school, a sub. teacher invited me to come to the cadet corp. He was the XO.

An acquaintance of mine is of the lowest category, but working his way up. He never had any of the opportunities that I did. His parents divorced at the age of 3, and grew up with a single mother, and no father in the picture (Died when he was 6). He has no direction for the future, but is cleaning up his act and hiking up his shorts.

My 2 cents.

 

[ballz]

I don't want them, in their first year, to start seeing adjustments like this and I wouldn't want someone who has had benefit of said adjustments building any bridge I might cross.

She spoke to her department head and he felt the same as I did ;D

Unfortunately that's all too rare in most universities, as their #1 driver is money, not education.

I just listened to a bit of 16:9 on Global, they were talking about how Douglas College in BC has set up schools in China and is awarding Canadian accredited degrees. However, it's been described by some of their own faculty as "academic fraud," where they are failing students and yet somehow that student is getting a degree. One professor told a story of someone in China that couldn't understand as much as "Good Morning" in English, but somehow got the degree. It is literally the exact same diploma you would get in Canada, absolutely no indication you never attended in Canada.

None of this surprises me after what I've seen at MUN. One of the best profs I've ever had basically gave me a "wink wink nudge nudge" indication that a part of their compensation is somehow tied to the "course evaluation reports" that students have to do for each course at the end of the semester. Talk about the tail wagging the f**king dog!