Are there snipers in the reserves?

[MJP]

This is kind of on subject with snipers, I was wondering, does Canada have any "designated marksman" like the US Army and Marines.

Well deployed yes, and they should be issued with the C7 CT.  We'll have one in my PL when I go probably in Wpns Det.

Specs here
http://www.diemaco.com/

Excolis had mentioned it before, in the infantry forum that he had one of his soldiers as a designated marksmen for ROTO 0 Athena...I'll see if I can dig it up and grab the link.

 

[Armymedic]

Indeed, I was in Bosnia roto 13 with a Lt from QOR who passed the pathfinder course.

Hatchet: Yeah, I heard about that lone Pathfinder reservist. However, as far as I understand, he's had at least a good decade behind his belt with a myriad of reg force courses, including Para, Recce, LZ/DZ and Mil Freefall. In any case, I think Pugnacious, short of spending the rest of his career with the QoR and NOT in BC as he stated, has as high a chance of being a pathfinder as being a sniper.
.

And no he isn't that old, and of course had to get three of those courses to qualify for the course, all at CPC thru the QOR.

 

[Infanteer]

Is giving a Reservist a Sniper or Pathfinder qualification worth the resources.  Will the military get a return on its investment from a soldier who parades about 6-8 days out of a month and belongs to a unit that has a hard time pulling off Platoon and Company attacks, let alone being able to utilize the high level skill set that a Sniper or Pathfinder would have?

 

[Michael Dorosh]

Is giving a Reservist a Sniper or Pathfinder qualification worth the resources.  Will the military get a return on its investment from a soldier who parades about 6-8 days out of a month and belongs to a unit that has a hard time pulling off Platoon and Company attacks, let alone being able to utilize the high level skill set that a Sniper or Pathfinder would have?

Aren't you the one who said "train for war?"

Shall we train with the goal of doing company attacks in Wainwright next month, or train with the mindset that our skills might be needed in North Korea, Panama, Haiti, North German Plain, et al, six months from now?

 

[Infanteer]

Aren't you the one who said "train for war?"

I am becoming so quotable, ain't I.

Shall we train with the goal of doing company attacks in Wainwright next month, or train with the mindset that our skills might be needed in North Korea, Panama, Haiti, North German Plain, et al, six months from now?

Exactly.   There are dedicated Sniper and Pathfinder/Recce assets in the Regular Force, which can manage the high degree of specialization that these skill sets require.   A reservist would probably see these skills degrade as he went back to a "meat-and-potatos" reserve unit.

I would rather see the resources and manpower dedicated to having a reserve sub-unit trained to a reasonably cohesive level, opening the door to deployment and greater training oppurtunities.  A reserve unit is much more likely to man an AOR in a Peace Support Operation or take on a defensive perimeter if mobilized on a war footing then conducting long range sniping and recce missions; leave that the the regulars.

 

[Excolis]

three are snipers in the reserves.  the rsm for the essex and kent scottish is sniper qualified, and the previous one was also.  the old rsm had his pathfinders badge. ranger tab, wings from all over the place.  i am not sure if they got trained in the reserves though.... hmm i will have to find out now

 

[Michael OLeary]

My extra questions are...Do they exist in the reserves?
And are the snipers coming from the Regs, or are the reservists trained as Snipers?

I'm trying to join the reserves out here in BC, and would be interested in this field.

While there may be sniper qualified personnel in some Reserve units, I don't think that addresses the intent of the original question.

The fact that one or more personnel may have transferred to the Reserves with such qualifications, or in the rare instances of a serving reservist getting the opportunity to be trained as Reg F recce/pathfinder/sniper, etc. does not imply that these specialties have established positions and training entitlements in Primary Reserve units.

Pugnacious - Joining the Reserves in expectation of becoming a qualified sniper is a rather false hope. Your best bet in the Reserves is to pursue the Basic Recce course and to join your unit's rifle team to develop your marksmanship skills. Doing well with those opportunities may help you build a foundation of skills which could assist you in pursuing a sniper position in the Regular Force, though it is by no means a confirmed edge, everything will still depend on your performance in the Reg Force battalion at the time.

 

[excoelis]

Hi y'all.

As far as the ubiquitous Reserve Pathfinder is concerned you guys finally got the facts 'almost' right.  Sorry, I was away for a bit and didn't get a chance to twist the belt in the feedway of the inevitable 'runaway gun' speculation. 

He's a friend of mine - if anyone wants autographs I can hook you up - and he completed the course over two tries in between his phases of Officer trng.  God bless'im for hanging in there and proving the previously unthinkable, to some unbelievable, and yet others unnecessary.

WRT the latter I can tell you in no uncertain terms that my door wasn't beaten of the hinges with people lining up to get beasted for 3 months in the off chance that they may be one of between 1 and 10 lucky or good enough to hoist the torch.  Sad really.  There are, of course, a myriad of reasons not to do it.  Not the least of which, for my boys anyway, are family obligations and the recent return from A'stan.  So.............when the reg Bdes don't fill the measly 10 or so spots per area that they are allotted......what harm is there in the non-para or reserves stepping up to the plate and taking their best shot at the title?  Successfull or not, I guarantee you they will definitely be an asset to their unit (or more) when all is said and done.  Not only will they hone existing skills and learn new ones, they will learn a whole lot about themselves.

Anyway, before I start ranting I'll leave you with this thought.  DON'T FEAR FAILURE!!!  I've seen many a capable man stand down in the face of adversity in the off chance that he should lose face.  REMEMBER 'THE MAN IN THE ARENA' QUOTE!!!!

I fought long and hard to get on the course.  I finally did it to prove to my troops (and myself) that it could be done.

I'm employed in the role, I'm teaching on the course this year......................

...........and I look forward to seeing ANYONE who is willing and lucky enough to give it a shot.

The biggest hurdle is the pre-reqs.  Work towards meeting them, and with any luck at that time the situation will be the same (or dare I say better?) and you too may get a shot regardless of your employment.

Imagine....... one of the hardest courses in the CF......we can only run it once a year (MAYBE)...........and lately we have a hard time filling thirty or so spots out of the entire CF  

It's fuckin' scandalous.

 

[combat_medic]

Excoelis: Is the lack of candidates because of a lack of interest/availability, or is it because so few soldiers have all the pre-reqs? In addition, wouldn't many of the skills be wasted on a candidate from a non-ariborne capable unit? How would they maintain it if they can never jump? With no para-capabilities, wouldn't the money on a reserve candidate be better spent on an advanced Recce course?

 

[excoelis]

I apologise for the hijack to the sniper topic but here we go...............

Reasons?  Many.  Every case is different.  At the end of the day though there is a whole lot of talk, but not a lot of troops seeing it through to the end. 

Pre-reqs are a hurdle - Para, Recce, JLC - But the latter two can be waived in certain circumstances.  Don't bet on it though.  If you want the course strive to complete the pre-reqs first.

As far as a waste of money.  Who gives a fuck really?  We can debate the lofty issues of Generals all day to no avail or we can take a shot at whatever the hell we can get our greasy hands on.  I thought I made it clear but I will reiterate - I would rather see Pte I-can't-find-my-own-ass-with-a-map-and-written-directions show up on the course than see the spot go unfilled.  At least that soldier will learn 'something'.  The course is an excellent opportunity to hone ALL of ones fieldcraft, leadership skills, patrol battle procedure, nav, demo, comms, mountain ops, amphib, etc......  How can that possibly be wasted in a reserve unit????

Here's one for you to debate - I would send a willing soldier from my platoon who was getting out in 6 months if the spot was going to be unfilled.  Why?  Cuz all army skills aside it would teach that person a whole lot about their strengths and weaknesses and just plain make 'em a more well-rounded person.  How's that for wasting the Army's money ;D

The para related side of it - although the very essence of the role - is not the ONLY skill taught/honed/exploited.

I'm not sure of the exact timeline (I will confirm later) but I'm pretty sure there is a point where the sending unit is no longer responsible for the cost of the course.  I believe it roughly equates to - yeah, he put in an effort and didn't just show up or get sent against his will.

 

[Jarnhamar]

So to sum things up regarding the sniper question:

Yes there are sniper qualified soldiers in the reserves.
Theres a 99.9% chance these sniper quailified soldiers got their course while they were in the regular force.
You have a better chance being president of canada then you do being a new private in the reserves and going on a sniper course.
If a platoon commander is so inclined, he can designate someone as the platoon marksman.
There are times when your on a reserve ex you may be designated/tasked as the platoon sniper with the ol'C7.
If you want to be a sniper so you can tell people your a sniper, your a dork 

Reathfinders
I think in the reserve world a unit would rather have their soldiers teaching classes filling the gaps than taking speciality training? A master Corporal can spend a summer teaching new recruits rather then taking a pathfinder course where as theres a good chance the soldier will fail, leave for the regs or something of the like.
It's great to have these courses in the reserves and i agree with it 100% but i think on a higher level their concerns/opinion lies elsewhere.

 

[Michael OLeary]

Good summation Ghost, one final real world point from the Reserve unit perspective:

When Reserve soldiers attend Reg Force courses, it is usually the Reserve unit that must pay the wages and TD. When a Reserve unit is funded for 35 (or so) training days per person based on average parade strength, sending a soldier on a 40 training day course costs 56 days pay (once you include weekends). And that's not considering any days given the soldier to prepare for an advanced course. That requirement taken from the unit budget cuts into every other soldier's opportunities for training.

 

[McG]

Theres a 99.9% chance these sniper quailified soldiers got their course while they were in the regular force.

All the reserve snipers that I have ever met were police snipers (and that is where they were trained).

 

[Pugnacious]

Nice to finaly get some real answers besides the typical peanut gallery banter...of old timers barfing on newbies.

BTW: I'm interested in it becuase I think it is an interesting military job, not because I want to tell people about it.
If I wanted something to brag to friends about  I'd become a cook...as they get medals and such.  ;D hahaha

Also I'd be willing to pay for my own courses, and equipment, as long as it was Canadian forces approved, and applicable.
I'm looking for training, and a job that represents my abilities, and efforts, not a hand out.

Thanx again for the info, and the great links.
Cheers!
P.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Nice to finaly get some real answers besides the typical peanut gallery banter...of old timers barfing on newbies.

Or from all the newbie, JTFninjasniper civvie wannabe's that don't have the merest smick or experience to know what the hell they're talking about, but go and provide (mostly wrongful) answers anyway. At least most of the old guys barfing on stupid newbie questions has at least a modicum of BTDT. Sometimes they should be forgiven for their lack of patience after having answered the same questions time and again because the, supposed, computer literate kids today don't seem to know how to use the search function. Most newbies here get taken to task because of their smart mouthed attitude, or because they gave a stupid, no nothing answer or snide remark to someone else, not because they asked a DECENT, reasearched question.

 

[Ex-Dragoon]

Gee Pugnacious you really want your future questions don't you.  :

 

[OLD SCHOOL]

You want to avoid seeing the barfing?...You will be buried in the stuff before you get to Basic Sniper training. :-X

An eager recruit, upon being barfed on, will pick out the best chunks and wolf them down all the while asking for more. Catch my drift?

 

[Jarnhamar]

Pugnacious stop.
I guarentee if you join the army and are still a member on this site OR even if you just hang around here as a civilian for a while you will say the exact same thing when someone wanders in here and starts asking about the navyseals, JTF, snipers, whatever.

People always wander in here now and then and bring it up. Thats no big deal. 99% of the time they are doorknobs who don't even come close to going to the recruiting office.  Do you think answering the same question 70 times for someone who wont even come close to signing up is a waste of time? I know I do. For sake of argument lets say your the 1%. You asked a questionand were answered, drop it or else in the future the only people answering you will be the peanut gallery.

Why do old timers barf on newbies? I'm not an old timer by any stretch of the word but i'll take a guess.. If you handle all the newbies with kid gloves and lead them on, "ohhhhh you MIGHT get a sniper course in the reserves...." then they stick around and ask question after question after question. The experienced guys get fed up and stop posting, leaving guys with no clue answering your questions. Guys who've "heard something from a friend who knew a guy".

If you can't handle someone comming down on you a little hard and be able to brush it off then your not going to be a good soldier because the army is all about people comming down hard on you for what you think is little stuff.

 

[Pieman]

An eager recruit, upon being barfed on, will pick out the best chunks and wolf them down all the while asking for more. Catch my drift?

MMMMM....reminds me of McDonalds for some reason.

Don't worry Ghost, Red Ninja Sniper can take anything and will have no trouble asking for seconds.

 

[Infanteer]

Kids, the ninja thing your little gang has going is getting old.