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AOR Replacement & the Joint Support Ship (Merged Threads)

Stoker

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Navy_Pete said:
Based on industry standards it is; if you are used to 100k+ (or 1M+) volts, 4400 is a walk in the park.  Folks used to working on the high power side are interesting to talk to that way; there seems to be a certain elements of fatalism when you know a mistake will kill you, with the appropriate amount of dark humour.

Yes that way we don't have to send all ships personnel to the UK for the HV course.
 

Oldgateboatdriver

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Navy_Pete said:
Based on industry standards it is; if you are used to 100k+ (or 1M+) volts, 4400 is a walk in the park.  Folks used to working on the high power side are interesting to talk to that way; there seems to be a certain elements of fatalism when you know a mistake will kill you, with the appropriate amount of dark humour.

And rightly so. The standard residential distribution system is 25Kva and considered medium. High voltage is considered as staring at the lowest "transmission" line level, which is 120Kva.

But it's the combination of Amps with Volts that is the real clincher. A physics prof of mine used to demonstrate this once a year when he would get "zapped" by 500,000 volts ... but at one tenth of millionth of Amp. Described it as no worse than sticking your tongue on a 9v. battery.  ;D
 

OceanBonfire

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Steel-cutting ceremony today.

RfzTCbm.jpg


https://www.canada.ca/en/department-national-defence/news/2018/06/minister-sajjan-marks-the-start-of-steel-cutting-for-the-first-joint-support-ship.html
 

Navy_Pete

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A service life of up to 30 years?  That's just a foolish thing to say, when we all know that is the absolute minimum they will see.

 

Swampbuggy

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OceanBonfire said:
Steel-cutting ceremony today.

RfzTCbm.jpg


https://www.canada.ca/en/department-national-defence/news/2018/06/minister-sajjan-marks-the-start-of-steel-cutting-for-the-first-joint-support-ship.html

I see there’s no longer any pretence of opting for a third JSS.
 

Czech_pivo

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The links don’t discuss when the CG research vessel will be built or when the Def will begin.  The RCN will most likely get (officially accept) the first JSS in 2025 and the second in 2026.  With this being said, I’m willing to bet that the Def is accepted in 2029 or 2030. The LSL be roughly over 60yrs old. Unreal.
 

Colin Parkinson

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The 2 remaining OFSV's will be done by the end of next year, the JSS #1 and the SV can be underway at the same time. Likely the plan will be for the Def to start and then the JSS #2 started shortly after. My best guess.
 

Uzlu

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MV Asterix at risk of being seized?  https://shipandbunker.com/news/am/660490-canada-navy-refueller-vulnerable-to-arrest
 

FSTO

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Uzlu said:
MV Asterix at risk of being seized?  https://shipandbunker.com/news/am/660490-canada-navy-refueller-vulnerable-to-arrest

I doubt it. Long time in court before any seizures start.
 

Oldgateboatdriver

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Nothing unusual, or nothing that would be a big concern to the Government of Canada or the RCN.

There are ongoing payments due by the GoC. If the ship is arrested, the GoC will simply put an amount of money equal to he claim in escrow somewhere in exchange for a release of the arrest, with the money to be fought over by the Engineering firm and Davie in the mean time. All standard stuff in the maritime law world.

And FSTO: Wrong. In maritime law, you can ask for an arrest (as opposed to seizure) to be made upon your filing of a claim, so the ship is held until the matter is resolved.
 

FSTO

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Oldgateboatdriver said:
Nothing unusual, or nothing that would be a big concern to the Government of Canada or the RCN.

There are ongoing payments due by the GoC. If the ship is arrested, the GoC will simply put an amount of money equal to he claim in escrow somewhere in exchange for a release of the arrest, with the money to be fought over by the Engineering firm and Davie in the mean time. All standard stuff in the maritime law world.

And FSTO: Wrong. In maritime law, you can ask for an arrest (as opposed to seizure) to be made upon your filing of a claim, so the ship is held until the matter is resolved.

Good to know!
 

MarkOttawa

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Excerpts from a piece for CGAI by Matthew Fisher, recently aboard MV Asterix:
The MV Asterix Delivers: Canada’s Supply Ship Impresses at Sea

The_MV_Asterix_Story_and_Banner_Pic.jpg

Image credit: Matthew Fisher

Aboard MV Asterix and HMCS Charlottetown – The Trudeau government would have fits, but the Royal Canadian Navy should consider renaming the MV Asterix the HMCS Admiral Mark Norman.

The controversial new replenishment ship, which entered service on time and on budget this past January, has been performing brilliantly for the navy during sea trials. That was the unanimous opinion of sailors on HMCS Charlottetown and on MV Asterix after a series of refuelling exercises with the Canadian frigate and American destroyers during a hunt for three U.S. nuclear subs that I witnessed recently in the Caribbean...

The auxiliary oil replenishment ship was originally built as a container ship in Germany in 2009. Chantier Davie Canada Inc. began work in 2015 to convert it to carry 10,100 tonnes of fuel and jet fuel, which it can push across to a pair of ships simultaneously at a rate of 800 gallons a minute. At the same time it can transfer 400 tonnes of potable water that it can process from sea water. It is also equipped with self-loading cranes that can bring on board large quantities of food, military and humanitarian supplies, including 17-tonne army light armoured vehicles (LAVs), and sea containers carrying all the kit from the military’s Disaster Assistance Response Team.

The vessel was designed to sail with helicopters. It is already equipped with a 35-bed hospital with two surgical suites expandable to several hundred beds and a dental suite. Davie passed the ship to its sister company, Federal Fleet Services Inc., which has a five-year lease with the navy...

Helicopters may begin to fly within a year from Asterix’s landing pad at the stern, where the hangar can handle a pair of bus-sized CH-47 Chinook helicopters. However, they will usually shelter a pair of smaller CH-148 Cyclone anti-submarine warfare and utility helicopters that are finally about to replace Canada’s venerable, half-century-old fleet of Sea Kings.

The success of the Halifax-based Asterix has already prompted speculation about how advantageous it might be to have a similar vessel operating on the West Coast. Mooting this possibility leads to questioning the wisdom of proceeding with the purchase of two joint supply ships that are to be built by Seaspan Shipyards in Vancouver. The government told Postmedia last month that the estimated cost of the pair of JSS had exploded to as much as $1.6 billion each. Under discussion since 2005, they are still not scheduled to join the fleet for at least four years. Although the first steel for the JSS was cut in British Columbia last month, some sailors based in Ottawa and on Asterix and Charlottetown reckoned that they would not be operational for some time after that...

Fraser Spencer, Federal Fleet Services’ chief executive officer, told me in Ottawa that the company can convert an identical container ship for the navy to lease or buy for a third of the cost of Seaspan’s JSS and that they can deliver it much quicker than if such a ship is built from scratch.

The Charlottetown’s skipper, Cdr. Nathan Decicco, did not want to delve too far into the debate about the relative merits of Asterix and the JSS but provided a balanced view of what they could bring to the navy.

“The question everyone has is: What permanent capability do we need?” Decicco said. “The tactical, strategic and political levels struggle with the question. It is above my pay scale to say we should do this or do that. Having a JSS would be a vast improvement because it can handle cargo, fuel, munitions and humanitarian missions and can also go out there as a warship. That is a breadth of experience we don’t now have.

“Asterix has a civilian master. The JSS would have a navy captain who would probably have had a frigate, destroyer or tanker command previously. With the Asterix you are not growing your bridge community. There are also different risks. We might need to send the ship to a war. A lot of smart people are thinking about this.”

Like his crew, Decicco was impressed with what Asterix was already doing.

“I am an advocate of capability,” the Charlottetown’s commander said. “I don’t care where it comes from. What I see now is a navy at sea with its own replenishment capability. We cannot be a blue-water navy without it. The time, speed and distance calculations are all different. What a tanker brings to us is greater manoeuverability options.

“Asterix is intended as an interim solution to fill a gap. That gap is now filled but there is still a gap. That is why I would advocate for two of them instead of one. We did not hear anything from the American commanders and that is a good thing. We would have if Asterix had not met their expectations. If you take your car to the gas station, you expect it to meet safety standards. Asterix met every requirement you would expect.”..

Like Decicco, the Charlottetown’s Lt. Bucky Branscombe explained both sides of the argument about whether to add another mixed-crew Asterix or go ahead with the acquisition of two or more JSS entirely crewed by the navy.

“You hear some people saying get two Asterixes and cancel the JSS,” the 27-year-old navigation officer said.

On the other hand, some RCN sailors considered “the juice” – in this case, Asterix – was “not worth the squeeze because what is the utility of a tanker without military specs and weapons,” he said. “Yet the USN and the Royal Navy, the most powerful navies, believe that auxiliary ships with civilian crews are good enough.

“As defined, the JSS can do more than the Asterix. It can be more than a stopgap measure. But depending on cost overruns it will cost two to three times what the Asterix does,” Branscombe said.

“What I know is that the navy leadership is clearly fighting to maintain a blue-water capability,” he added. Whatever the navy decided, being able to operate and support a task force of four surface ships and a submarine in distant waters was something supported by every sailor embarked on the two Canadian ships.

That is what Asterix has been doing. The replenishment ship is 80 days into what will be about an epic 400-day voyage...

About the Author

Matthew Fisher is a Fellow at the Canadian Global Affairs Institute. He was born in northwestern Ontario and raised there and in the Ottawa Valley. He has lived and worked abroad for 34 years as a foreign correspondent for the Globe and Mail, Sun Media and Postmedia. Assignments have taken him to 162 countries. An eyewitness to 19 conflicts including Somalia, the Rwandan genocide, Chechnya, the Balkan Wars, Israel in Gaza and Lebanon, the two Gulf Wars and Afghanistan, Matthew was appointed as the first Bill Graham Centre/Massey College Resident Visiting Scholar in Foreign and Defence Policy in 2018.

@mfisheroverseas
https://www.cgai.ca/the_mv_asterix_delivers_canada_s_supply_ship_impresses_at_sea

Mark
Ottawa
 

MarkOttawa

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Cdn Blackshirt:

Why does it say "Quebec" below its name?

Perhaps that's where Federal Fleet has registered MV Asterix. CCG ships say "Ottawa" as that where they are registered as civilian vessels:

IMG_3469.jpg


Mark
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Oldgateboatdriver

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Chief Stoker said:
Port of registry Quebec City near where is was converted. The French express Quebec City as "Quebec"

Nothing to do with French, Chief. Even for us French Canadians, if there is a possibility of confusion between the city and the province, we will specify which one we are talking about by stating "le" or "au" before Quebec in the case of the province or "la ville de" before it for the city. When it is clear which one we are talking about, we don't bother specifying.

ALL port registry indicated on merchant ships refer to the "port", or city, of registration. So you never specify "city" even when there could be some confusion.

For instance, a ship registered in New York City will only say "New York", since for ship registry there is no possible confusion with New York State.
 

Stoker

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Oldgateboatdriver said:
Nothing to do with French, Chief. Even for us French Canadians, if there is a possibility of confusion between the city and the province, we will specify which one we are talking about by stating "le" or "au" before Quebec in the case of the province or "la ville de" before it for the city. When it is clear which one we are talking about, we don't bother specifying.

ALL port registry indicated on merchant ships refer to the "port", or city, of registration. So you never specify "city" even when there could be some confusion.

For instance, a ship registered in New York City will only say "New York", since for ship registry there is no possible confusion with New York State.

To the outsider its looks odd.
 
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