AESOp ( MOC 081)

[TUNETOG]

You are on your way to becoming a proud member of the best NCM trade available.  Keep your head up and out of the crap!  Before you know it you will be bitching about hotel rooms and box lunches with the rest of us.

Congrats and good luck.

My first couple of weeks in blue have been pretty great. Even though I'm in the same building/office space, so much has changed. Just doing monkey work, inputting data for RFE's and lifts, but I'm learning a little of how the RCAF works. I've got a great CoC, and colleagues, and am the only NCM in our section. Normally that would make me a magnet for you know what...but not here. Just wanted to express my happiness. Seeing as many of my earlier posts were filled with teenage-like angst while going through the CT process....it's like I've flown out the other side of a storm now, and into clear blue skies.  ;D :nod:

 

[TUNETOG]

Been out on a couple of courses for my first time in Winnipeg the last couple of weeks. Been a good go, and can't wait to start my 3's (don't know when yet). But these initial aircrew courses have been a nice way to ease into the RCAF. Back home in a couple of days. Gotten to speak with some others doing their 5's ATM, and they are great sources of info. Can't wait until we're at their stage of training, but have to get through those 3's first. I think I'm going to enjoy this

 

[Sub_Guy]

Attitude.

Positive you must keep.

Enjoy it you will.

 

[TUNETOG]

Attitude.

Positive you must keep.

Enjoy it you will.

Doubt that
I do not [

 

[pascalywood]

Hi guys, quick question about the AES op trade. I used to be in the reserves and considering joining back as a reg force AES op. I was wondering, does this job require a level 3 security clearance or only a secret one?

 

[Eye In The Sky]

TS for the op sqn's.  I think my Lvl 3 was 'processing' when I went thru Wpg. 

Talked to a recruiter yet?

 

[Sub_Guy]

Don't be surprised if TS will be a requirement for all AES Op considering all AES Ops will now need to be familiar with ACINT. 

They are also changing how AES Ops are recruited.  They want to focus on occupational transfers to increase the experience level of the trade.

 

[pascalywood]

TS for the op sqn's.  I think my Lvl 3 was 'processing' when I went thru Wpg. 

Talked to a recruiter yet?

I will soon, just got an email asking me to contact the local recruiting center for an apointment.

Thanks for the reply

 

[blacktriangle]

Don't be surprised if TS will be a requirement for all AES Op considering all AES Ops will now need to be familiar with ACINT. 

They are also changing how AES Ops are recruited.  They want to focus on occupational transfers to increase the experience level of the trade.

Will AES Ops still be streamed ASO/NASO? If so, which stream will likely end up on the Cyclone? I apologize if this has been covered previously. I understand it's just 1 AES Op on MH, and that they may at times have to share various sensor responsibilities with the TACCO or non-flying pilot? I hope I have that somewhat close?

And last time I checked there were only 4 or so spots for OT to AES Op this year? If you guys want experience (i.e. was MCpl or senior Cpl before) why such low numbers?

 

[Eagle_Eye_View]

I believe these numbers are about to increase as a result of having an IAQC output target of 24 graduates per year vs 12. In other words, the trade is really hurting and desperate for new blood.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Don't be surprised if TS will be a requirement for all AES Op considering all AES Ops will now need to be familiar with ACINT. 

You mean before they can start BAQC as opposed to it 'processing'?  And all of us famil with ACINT...even dry guys on sqn now?  First I heard of this.  I am in the buddle of confusion and chaos and don't get out much...

I thought this year's SIP has way more DE than OT #s.  Not that I thought that was necessarily a 'good' thing though!

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Will AES Ops still be streamed ASO/NASO?

Only the LRP community has the ASO/NASO streams.

If so, which stream will likely end up on the Cyclone? I apologize if this has been covered previously. I understand it's just 1 AES Op on MH, and that they may at times have to share various sensor responsibilities with the TACCO or non-flying pilot? I hope I have that somewhat close?

MH folks are MH; the training and employment is changing a lot...errr well going to change a lot...with the Cyclone but they will be trained in the Cyclone sensors, some of which is 'wet' and some 'dry'. 

I'd be talking about my arse about how MH AES Ops work with the task sharing.  My  :2c: is they will be pretty busy people on the Cyclone; not necessarily more or less than LRP guys are, but just in a different way.

And last time I checked there were only 4 or so spots for OT to AES Op this year? If you guys want experience (i.e. was MCpl or senior Cpl before) why such low numbers?

Trade/career management demands, realities and lessons learned make priorities and ideas change accordingly.  DE worked for what it was needed for, it had its pro's and con's.  OTs have a thing called 'perspective' that DE don't have the benefit of.  IMO.

 

[Sub_Guy]

To put things into perspective on the Aurora we have 5 AES Ops responsible for Radar, ESM, EO/IR, Ordinance, Passive and Active acoustics.  Usually we are all busy.

ASO = Passive and Active acoustics, EO/IR and Ordinance duties.
NASO = Radar, ESM, EO/IR and Ordinance duties.

The Cyclone has 1 AES Op and he/she will be responsible for Radar, ESM, EO/IR, Ordinance (limited), Passive and Active acoustics.  Obviously they are going to have to share responsibilities with the ACSO, because one individual will not be able to handle all of that at once.  Never mind trying to be proficient in everything.

The recruiting will flip (as briefed by our CWOs), so the majority of new AES Ops will come from within.  I suspect this will happen within the next year, so keep applying. 

Also new AES Ops shouldn't expect to end up in a flying position for their first posting.  They are looking at sending folks to WOPs to increase experience levels.  This will be a good thing especially since both the Aurora and Cyclone are technological beasts. 

You mean before they can start BAQC as opposed to it 'processing'?  And all of us famil with ACINT...even dry guys on sqn now?  First I heard of this.

They are learning MVASP and basic acoustic information in Winnipeg now.  They do learn basic unclassified analysis as well.  I think it was recommended that all AES Ops have BPAAC because the AES Ops that don't perform analysis duties will be in the minority once the Cyclone gets up and running.  I mean we all have to take BEW, so why not BPAAC?  No the line guys (NASOs) don't have to learn acoustics.

Winnipeg can pump out 50 a year but it doesn't mean a lick of shit if the OTUs can't handle them, which we can't.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

ASO = Passive and Active acoustics, EO/IR and Ordinance duties.

I know they are coming out 'qualified' EO/IR and Ord as baby Bs...but...the reality ( :2c: at least where I am) is they don't have the experience/ability to do it without a NASO when things get busy...that might change...right now the 'theory' isn't matching the reality.  Qualified/proficient...

For the NASO's, throw MAD into the works as well.  It takes skill and critical thinking to...stare at a line and yell. 

Winnipeg can pump out 50 a year but it doesn't mean a lick of shit if the OTUs can't handle them, which we can't.

That's too bad, because we need 'em!  The butter is spread pretty thin across the parking lot.

 

[Eagle_Eye_View]

50 graduates in Winnipeg right now is unrealistic. Unless the trade double my instructor billets; heck we have trouble keeping up with 2 courses of 12 in house at the same time.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

One thing the DE gig did NOT do for us; produce folks who (on average) could do their first tour and then go on to be instructors.  The 'new blood' was needed but the middle-term effects are showing themselves now.

 

[Eagle_Eye_View]

I agree 100% with your comment. By new blood I meant both DE and VOTs. Most of the VOTs that I see here at the school have 12 years or less in service.

 

[Sub_Guy]

50 graduates in Winnipeg right now is unrealistic. Unless the trade double my instructor billets; heck we have trouble keeping up with 2 courses of 12 in house at the same time.

You know me.  I was being snarky. 

IMHO the DE recruiting process should cease.  Go back to OT only.  The Basic AES Op training of today is nothing like the Basic AES Op training of yesterday with the high failure rates. 

 

[dimsum]

You know me.  I was being snarky. 

IMHO the DE recruiting process should cease.  Go back to OT only.  The Basic AES Op training of today is nothing like the Basic AES Op training of yesterday with the high failure rates.

Completely out of my lane but out of curiosity, why go back to OT only?  What about our AES Op training/employment/recruitment is different than, say, the RAAF where it's (mostly) DE?

 

[Sub_Guy]

Completely out of my lane but out of curiosity, why go back to OT only?  What about our AES Op training/employment/recruitment is different than, say, the RAAF where it's (mostly) DE?

Experience.  Do the guys in the RAAF fly as privates or are they Sgts and up?


I heard the SAR guys killed their DE experiment.