AESOp ( MOC 081)

[thomasm77]

This may help,

AESOp ( MOC 081)
https://army.ca/forums/threads/22838.0
27 pages.

Thanks Mike. Lots of information in that thread. Sounds like it may be a bit of a scrap to get in. Guess I best wrap my knuckles and prepare for a war off attrition, ha.

 

[thomasm77]

I think if someone came into our office looking for someone to push brooms around, there'd probably be a fight, a good old fashioned give me the ******* broom fight.  We are so busy that pushing a broom around actually sounds like fun!

Busy is good. Busy I like. Having constructive work to do appeals to me more then you could imagine. Thanks Hunter

 

[runormal]

I'm gathering from the chatter here that the OT process isn't a short one. That's rather disheartening. Sorry to hear your troubles Tunetog. I'm looking at AESOP myself, and have just decided to take the plunge and leave my comfort (or lack thereof) zone in the army. Any recommendations for a backup if AESOP continues to be a difficult goal to achieve?

Thomas just so you are aware TuneTog is trying to CT and OT from the reserves to AESOP, The CT process is literally a clusterfuck. you apply and wait, there doesn't seem* to be any basis of Merit just simply first come, firsts erved. (*based on conversation with various brokers).  I've been trying to CT for over a year and a half and I am at exactly the same point I've started at. Part of this is my fault as I have had to change trades due to medical reasons (vision), because the army doctor gave me a completely different prescription that both of my civvy eye doctors have said doesn't make any sense.  In any event I am now a V4 and can't apply to AESOP. So I picked another trade (in oct 2014) which recently I was told was full and I was advised to pick another trade or wait until the next until at least the next FY. So I tried to switch to LOG/MARS and was told that the trade is closed for CT-OTS for at least 5 years until they process the excess applications and if I want that I trade I either need to remuster within the reserves and let them know when I'm qualified (Years, considering I don't even know where I'll be working) or release and re apply off the street.. option C was to pick a different trade.

While I understand that I am not special, how can someone wait years for a maybe in MARS or LOG? I understand that waiting is part of the army but i'd rather be waiting  because I'm not the best person for the job rather than applicant X has waited longer so he/she is a priority.

While I am a tad bitter about the whole CT process it seems in My opinion seems to be working a lot better than it was even just a year and a half ago and based on reading older posts as well as talking to colleagues who tried to CT a few years ago that the process seems to be working a lot smoother.

@TuneTog
How is your friend having trouble with ROTP? The two times I've applied for it within the reserves, it was fairly straight forward. IN 2011/2012 I simply waited for an interview (I didn't have to do a questionnaire or anything like that). This year I asked the CT Broker on Thursday, Applied Thursday morning and Monday morning I received an email back asking me to upload my transcripts to RMC. It seems that the CT Broker is completely removed from the process, because I had to re apply online like an applicant off the street. I imagine if/when they will write my letter of offer and act as a liaison to and from RMC. I'm actually pleasantly surprised with how smooth the process has been thus far my broker was very informative and immediately transferred to me the "ROTP expert" once I brought up the idea of it.

@Thomas
From what I've read on this forum it seems like it'd be well worth the wait.  DolphinHunter posted something along the lines of: "If I have 5$ dollars and I want a baconator which costs $6, is it better to buy a regular hamburger for 5$ or should I wait until I have 6$ to get what I really want?"  It seemed like some solid advice to me.

Edit: Grammar and reworded a few things.

 

[mariomike]

Thanks Mike. Lots of information in that thread. .

You are welcome,  Thomas,  and good luck.

Perhaps  this discussion  will be merged with the  AESOP super-thread.

 

[thomasm77]

You are welcome,  Thomas,  and good luck.

Perhaps  this discussion  will be merged with the  AESOP super-thread.

I've already moved that way Mike.

 

[thomasm77]

Thomas just so you are aware TuneTog is trying to CT and OT from the reserves to AESOP, The CT process is literally a clusterfuck. you apply and wait, there doesn't seem* to be any basis of Merit just simply first come, first served. (*based on conversation with various brokers).  I've been trying to CT for over a year and a half and I am at exactly the same point I've started at. Part of this is my fault as I have had to change trades due to medical reasons (vision), because the army doctor gave me a completely different prescription that both of my civvy eye doctors have said doesn't make any sense in any event I am now a V4 and can't apply to AESOP. So I picked another trade (In oct 2014) which recently I was told was full and I was advised to pick another trade or wait until the next until atleast the next FY. So I tried to switch to LOG/MARS and was told that the trade is closed for CT-OTS for at least 5 years until they process the excess applications and if I want that I trade I either need to remuster within the reserves and let them know when I'm qualified (Years, considering I don't even know where I'll be working) or release and re apply off the street.. option C was to pick a different trade.

While I understand that I am not special, how can someone wait years for a maybe in MARS or LOG? So Now I'm looking at ROTPing a second degree  ;D because I can actually apply to that and hear back by the end of the FY >..

@TuneTog
How is your friend having trouble with ROTP? The two times I've applied for it within the reserves, it was fairly straight forward. IN 2011/2012 I simply waited for an interview (I didn't have to do a questionnaire or anything like that). This year I asked the CT Broker on Thursday, Applied Thursday morning and Monday morning I received an email back asking me to upload my transcripts to RMC. It seems that the CT Broker is completely removed from the process IMO because I had to re apply online like an applicant off the street. I imagine if/when they will write my letter of offer and act as a liaison to an from RMC.

@Thomas
From what I've read on this forum it seems like it'd be well worth the wait.  DolphinHunter posted something along the lines of: "If I have 5$ dollars and I want a baconator which costs $6, is it better to buy a regular hamburger for 5$ or should I wait until I have 6$ to get what I really want?"  It seemed like some solid advice to me.

Patience is a virtue I shall be exhibiting in this venture. I'm set on AESOP, and with 18.5 years left on my TOS, and 6.5 years in the combat engineers, another year or two won't make that much of a difference. It's just more equity I'll have in my home. [emoji106]
I had been exploring AVN, but it just doesn't seem to appeal to me quite as much as AESOP. I'll stay the course for AESOP.

So is the OT from Reg force as complicated a process as a CT from the reserves? I'll have to review the CANFORGENs, but I think I may have missed the window for next year as well. Can't win 'em all I reckon.

 

[runormal]

No idea this is mega thread on VOT's. I'm a reservist so I haven't a clue how it works. Best of luck 

http://army.ca/forums/threads/118489.0.html

Eye in the Sky is also very knowledgeable on the process.

Edit: Just to clarify the CT process isn't overly complicated, but it just lots of waiting with very little correspondence which makes the process extremely frustrating.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Patience is a virtue I shall be exhibiting in this venture. I'm set on AESOP, and with 18.5 years left on my TOS, and 6.5 years in the combat engineers, another year or two won't make that much of a difference. It's just more equity I'll have in my home. [emoji106]
I had been exploring AVN, but it just doesn't seem to appeal to me quite as much as AESOP. I'll stay the course for AESOP.

So is the OT from Reg force as complicated a process as a CT from the reserves? I'll have to review the CANFORGENs, but I think I may have missed the window for next year as well. Can't win 'em all I reckon.

OTing is likely easier than doing a CT from the Reserves with an OT on top of it (my opinion, I could be wrong...).  Track down the VOT CANFORGEN, it was out in June or so this year.  Read it, read CFAO 11-12 and follow the application process.

Important "need-to's":

1.  Call the BPSO and ask for an appointment, or ask if they can get your CFAT scores to see if you made the cut-off.  That is show-stopper #1.  Might be a good time to informally/formally discuss your wish to OT to AESOP with the PSO.

2. Call the Base Hospital and book an Aircrew Medical (parts 1 and 2).  You will need (eventually) to get AF2 on your Med Category.  The start to that is to get your OT application stamped and signed "potentially fit aircrew" (not the exact term...) by a Flt Srgn for your file to go forward.  If you get that stamp it should be reasonable to expect the folk who do the Aircrew med category assignment (AUMB in Toronto) will agree with the local MO/Flt Srgn assessment.  Not a guarantee, but if there is a medical show-stopper it will likely be found during the Aircrew medical.

I don't think you are too late for this year at all.  I would check the VOTP competition msg ASAP to find out, but I wouldn't be surprised if you had until mid to late Nov to have your application submitted.

Start with those 2 things if you are serious for this year; let me know if there is anything else that I can do to help.

CT with an OT is a very different beast than a Reg Force OT.  You're combat arms, so you will see in CFAO 11-12, under the LOTP, you only need 36 mos of service to apply for an OT.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

So, is the grass really greener (bluer, perhaps) in the air force?  YES.  Especially for ex-cbt arms guys.  My opinion from talking to those of us who did the dirt tech gig before

Is AESOP a career path that would be recommended? Will it provide fulfilment on a day to day basis? I know that's vague, but I'm hoping conversation will help narrow my fields of questioning.  Its like any other trade, there is some 'not fun' stuff but a bad day in the AESOP trade beats diggin' in and eating a cold ham omelette.  Each day is different;  today I flew 6 hours, tomorrow I have APRV and admin to do all day.  Rare to have the same day twice kinda thing.  But, for the most part it is a really seriously good go.

What kind of advanced training or room for advancement is there?  Just getting thru the initial MOC training and then your operational/platform training and THEN your category upgrade training will keep you busy and learning for 2.5-3 years.  Always something to do, somewhere to go. 

How long do you stay as a working rank before you're grounded? MCpl? Sgt? In years?  The trade is a good place now for OTs with experience. motivation and a desire to excel.  Its not impossible or unreasonable to be a MCpl as an OT 3-4 years after you enter the trade.  Maybe sooner, maybe later.  Depends on how well you do and if you show the right leadership style/ability.  Aircrew 'crews' are a different beast than a Troop or Sqn and it takes some getting used to at first. 

What do you do day to? Are you flying fairly often, running the missions in the recruitment video? Or do you fly once a year and spend the rest of your time pushing a broom around? I would really like to do the job I train for more then once a year. Preferably daily.

Every time you fly you are doing your job.  Doing weather avoidance and vectoring a 4 engine airplane around thunder cells is dangerous off the coast of Canada or 'in theatre'.  Flying can be "almost too much/just the right amount/not nearly enough" and will vary.  I probably logged 400-500 hours the past 6 months.  Some weeks I've flown 4 times, others once, others not at all.  The missions in the video touch on the things we do in the Aurora world and provide a sort of 'general' idea of what we do.  You can do 2 very different types of missions 1 day apart, overland on Monday and maritime on Wednesday. 

As mentioned you WILL go away, there is no question about that.  But that is more good than bad, anyways.

I think that should be a good start for now.
Thanks in advance,
Tom.

Add on to all this, the trade is a pretty good group of people.  Flying is a good go, that's where I spent my work day today.  Spec pay and aircrew allowance, and some TD cash here and there, top it off. 

 

[Eye In The Sky]

I think if someone came into our office looking for someone to push brooms around, there'd probably be a fight, a good old fashioned give me the fucking broom fight. 

I am SO going across the parking lot with (1) a broom and (2) a GoPro because THAT would be worth paying money to see.  8)

 

[thomasm77]

Add on to all this, the trade is a pretty good group of people.  Flying is a good go, that's where I spent my work day today.  Spec pay and aircrew allowance, and some TD cash here and there, top it off.

Eye, you are a wealth of information. Thanks partner. I'll be getting the memo written and start the OT process soonest. I look forward to busting my ass doing a career path I love rather than a job I sorta like. I've been mulling this over for quite some time. God bless my wife for giving me the final push to quit vacillating and take the leap.

Just to clarify on the rank comment: I'm not worried about how long it takes to reach the rank, rather, I'm concerned that once the rank is reached the I'll end up grounded. In the combat arms, Sgts and up end up riding a desk. MCpls to quite some extend as well. I'd like to spend as much time working at my job as possible, before being moved to the 'admin' positions.

Thanks for everything Eye In The Sky, I'll use this info and advice pushing forward.
Cheers mate.
Tom

 

[thomasm77]

OTing is likely easier than doing a CT from the Reserves with an OT on top of it (my opinion, I could be wrong...).  Track down the VOT CANFORGEN, it was out in June or so this year.  Read it, read CFAO 11-12 and follow the application process.

Important "need-to's":

1.  Call the BPSO and ask for an appointment, or ask if they can get your CFAT scores to see if you made the cut-off.  That is show-stopper #1.  Might be a good time to informally/formally discuss your wish to OT to AESOP with the PSO.

2. Call the Base Hospital and book an Aircrew Medical (parts 1 and 2).  You will need (eventually) to get AF2 on your Med Category.  The start to that is to get your OT application stamped and signed "potentially fit aircrew" (not the exact term...) by a Flt Srgn for your file to go forward.  If you get that stamp it should be reasonable to expect the folk who do the Aircrew med category assignment (AUMB in Toronto) will agree with the local MO/Flt Srgn assessment.  Not a guarantee, but if there is a medical show-stopper it will likely be found during the Aircrew medical.

I don't think you are too late for this year at all.  I would check the VOTP competition msg ASAP to find out, but I wouldn't be surprised if you had until mid to late Nov to have your application submitted.

Start with those 2 things if you are serious for this year; let me know if there is anything else that I can do to help.

CT with an OT is a very different beast than a Reg Force OT.  You're combat arms, so you will see in CFAO 11-12, under the LOTP, you only need 36 mos of service to apply for an OT.

Eye,
Perfect. I've got the right list pulled together then, from CANFORGEN 121/15 dated July this year. 12-Feb -16 looks to be the date for all applications. I'll get the ball rolling on my end with BPSO, Medical, and of course informing my Chain of Command of my intent to OT. I've printed out the CFAO 11-12 application for VOT and am moving forward.
I'm all over this like white on rice. Quick question for ya:
The form asks for a secondary trade choice. Any recommendations based on my desire to go AESOP?
Thanks again,
Tom

 

[Eye In The Sky]

This is subject to change, of course, but right now there are some MWOs in the LRP (Aurora) community who are still flying and maintaining their qual/currency.  There is talk about that changing in the future.  But, I would say you can safely count on flying as a Cpl/MCpl/Sgt and up to WO.  I know there is talk about change but at this time, it is just that; talk.  If that talk becomes reality, well then things may change and it could be WOs and up doing desk commando stuff. 

I am not sure about the MH community, I know a few WOs that fly, or were still flying recently (ish).  In the LRP world, we have WO's that are flight instructors as well.  Obviously they fly. 

Spec 1 IPC 4 Cpl:  $5649  ;D

Std IPC 4 Sgt:  $5638   

The MH guys are really rolling in it IMO; they get Spec Pay, Aircrew Allowance ($311/mth minimum), and if they are on a HelAirDet (IIRC) they get Sea Duty Allowance ($311/mth minimum).  On top of THAT, they are posted to PLD locations.  $631 a month in Halifax, $800 and change in Victoria.  The Pay Bay Sqn (443 MH Sqn) just got themselves a shiny new hanger recently too. 

So, in theory, an  AES Op MH (Maritime Helicopter) Cpl who is on a HelAirDet in Shearwater can make $82k/year.  Not counting any TD money they can tuck away.

LRP, we don't get sea duty allowance.  We get to land on runways and stay in hotels on TD.  It's tough, I tell you.

Is the grass greener?  Fuck ya.  It's all 31 flavours of greener.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

I would only put down the trade I wanted to really go.  Personally, I only wanted AES Op and I only put down AES Op.  That's a personal choice.

Be prepared for your CofC to try some Jedi Mind Tricks and stuff; it's common.

 

[thomasm77]

I would only put down the trade I wanted to really go.  Personally, I only wanted AES Op and I only put down AES Op.  That's a personal choice.

Be prepared for your CofC to try some Jedi Mind Tricks and stuff; it's common.

AES Op and AES Op only. No compromise. I like it. Yeah, I'm imagining they'll do the usual:
-You're about to get promoted
-PLQ is right around the corner(Jan 25th actually)
-What courses can we offer you?
Etc etc etc.

I just hope I can convey that my choice to leave isn't based on the typical "I hate this place and it sucks", but rather on my desire to pursue a career path more stimulating and fulfilling.

-

 

[thomasm77]

Hahaha, cry into my Spec pay. Rough. Rough I tell you. So aircrew pay and spec, plus PLD and sea duty allowance in Pat Bay/Shearwater. Well I guess that offsets the Edmonton PLD and Land Duty Allowance. I wonder if my years deployable carry over from LDA to Aircrew allowance? I just recently jumped from the $311/month up tp $441/month for having served 5 yrs at a deployable regiment. Hmmmm, interesting thought, though no a deciding factor at all.

Its really erncouraging to hear that you can continue to work as you climb the ranks. That puts a real big smile on my face. Thanks for that tidbit.

You're really having a hard time selling me on this trade, what with the spec, flight time, actually getting to do your job. Ha. Lets see how fast I can "encourage" the institution to acquiesce to my request. Hopefully sooner rather than later.
Now, to type up that damn memo...

 

[SupersonicMax]

If you want to fly, have you thought about pilot?

 

[Loachman]

I wonder if my years deployable carry over from LDA to Aircrew allowance?

No. Two completely separate things.

 

[Eagle_Eye_View]

I thought LDA counted towards Fly pay?

It is a good time to join the trade, lots of staffing issue due to forecast/un-forecast releases, members commissioning, etc. Right now at the school our annual outpout is suppose to be 20, however we have difficulty achieving that target. The OT process can be quiet long, but don't get discourage and keep track of everything. In the end if you truly want to become an AES Op it will pay off. I've been AES Op for 7 years and I truly enjoy this job.

 

[Loachman]

I thought LDA counted towards Fly pay?

No, and why would it?

It does not work in reverse, either.

Similarly, there is no relationship between Aircrew Allowance and Sea Duty Allowance.