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[Kat Stevens]

I've spoken with many Echo types who mourn the loss of our Pioneers even more than we do. It just added a burden to already over-tasked troops.

I sincerely hope this piece-meal crap will soon (relatively) die, once we have built the Army back up.

In the Armd Eng Tp we always got the 1VP pig'neers attd to us for battle runs.  Good guys, good troops, knew when to ask and when to just do it.  The 2 i/c, MCpl Phil wotsisname (shiny head, shaggy beard, tough as nails), was a hoot.  I missed them when they disappeared.

 

[Journeyman]

... the Infantry Pioneer Platoons are long gone.

Not long gone - - they live on in our hearts  :'(


But they will be back. Have you noticed how history tends to be cyclic ("history doesn't repeat itself, but it rhymes..." )? There was a reason Pioneers were created in the first place...of if you go far enough back, how armies started separating pioneer-type INFANTRY troops and calling them "engineers."

Eventually, there will be major combat operations....engineers will be too busy doing trade-specific tasks, like bridging....and when enough infantry commanders find themselves without local movement/obstacle support, some genius will get extra points on his PER by pronouncing "you know what boys, infantry needs integral engineer-type support....let's give each battalion a platoon called......uh, Beaver Platoon" [Army Doctrine rule-book, para. 01.045B: can't use the old name - - otherwise it won't appear like new-found wisdom]

Wanna bet? 

 

[Fusilier]

Quote from Mountie 10 May "I agree with you completely if the battalion was deployed as a self-contained unit.  However, it's not anymore.  It has an artillery battery, a field engineer squadron, and an armoured reconnaissance squadron or troop attached to it.  The rifle and combat support companies don't even come from the same battalion anymore.  For TF Orion 1 PPCLI left its 'C' Coy behind and replaced it with 2 PPCLI's 'C' Coy and it has an armoured reconnaissance troop from 12 RBC. "

Sorry but the boys here will argue - C Coy 1 PPCLI deployed as C Coy TF ORION, and I'm sure the boys from B Coy 2 PPCLI would be a little offended to be referred to as "C Coy"  Other than that you guys are all bang on.  As I'm living the dream right now, WE NEED OUR ADM COY BACK!!  Not to mention, Mortar Pl, Pnr Pl, AAP...... someone out there please pass it on this NSE/FSG thing doesn't work, when will they figure out that Adm Coy was our FSG.

Rant done - off to face the heat..

 

[Wookilar]

Fusilier,

Everybody that I have talked to knows the NSE/FSG idea, as currently deployed, is not the best model for close support. Everyone agrees that integral Adm Coy's are the way to go.

However, the manning levels that we have had for years now dictate that we try something different. The current/emerging formations are the winning idea that came out of a number of different ideas tossed around. No one even tries to say that this way will be better than an integral support unit (whatever you want to call it), because they know it is not true.

I sincerly hope that our new numbers go to putting our existing units up to full peace time strength. This will take years. We shall see.