Accoutrement Confusion

[reccecrewman]

I just found out earlier this week I got my OT to RMS Clk. Not wanting to show up at Borden with the wrong accoutrements, I checked the CFSAL kitshop and found the needed DEU accoutrements. For $28.00 plus applicable taxes, I can get my LOG collardogs & DEU shoulder titles from the CFSAL kitshop.

I then headed to H-110 here at CFB Petawawa, waited in a line for 10 minutes, and got all the same accoutrements for free. So why is the CFSAL kitshop charging for accoutrements that are issued for free at another Base? The bulk of people on my course will be people who just came from CFLRS, and therefore have no real choice but to pay this money, but it doesn't seem right that they have to.

Would it not make more sense that first issue is free and replacement items have the price tag attached vice first issue charged, replacement items free? Anybody have any insight as to why this is?

 

[agc]

The kit shop would be non-public property.  Basically a canteen run through an imprest provided by CFPSA or someone.  It's handy to have that stuff for sale in the building, if you're in a bind.  I'm sure if you went to the supply section in Borden, they would also have issued you those same items without charge.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

I just found out earlier this week I got my OT to RMS Clk. Not wanting to show up at Borden with the wrong accoutrements, I checked the CFSAL kitshop and found the needed DEU accoutrements. For $28.00 plus applicable taxes, I can get my LOG collardogs & DEU shoulder titles from the CFSAL kitshop.

I then headed to H-110 here at CFB Petawawa, waited in a line for 10 minutes, and got all the same accoutrements for free. So why is the CFSAL kitshop charging for accoutrements that are issued for free at another Base? The bulk of people on my course will be people who just came from CFLRS, and therefore have no real choice but to pay this money, but it doesn't seem right that they have to.

Would it not make more sense that first issue is free and replacement items have the price tag attached vice first issue charged, replacement items free? Anybody have any insight as to why this is?

You might want to check with someone before you switch over all your uniforms. I don't think things have changed and you can't wear your new trade stuff untill you pass your course and are actually qualified as a RMS Clerk. Don't be showing up all decked out, you might find yourself in trouble before you even get started.

 

[reccecrewman]

Funny thing you said that. I've been told by no less than 3 authorities (All Snr NCO or Offr) I should report in;

a) My black beret & springbok w/ RCD accoutrements

b) A green beret w/ LOG capbadge & LOG epaulet

c) A green beret w/ cornflake & Canada epaulet

So, I saw my Regimental Chief Clerk today and he's going to get back to me on Monday after talking with someone in CFSAL.

 

[REDinstaller]

c) A green beret w/ cornflake & Canada epaulet

This would be the correct dress if you were posted straight out of CFLRS as a Tradeless Soldier, but you are a qualified Crewman. So option C is a no go.

 

[Nfld Sapper]

I believe the correct answer is A...... until you are trade qual'd in your new trade you are still qual'd your old trade...

 

[REDinstaller]

I'm thinking (A) as well, but we had a Crmn at the Regt that was going clerk. He was told to change his capbadge to LOG during his OJT before he went on course. I don't know who gave the direction on that one.

 

[George Wallace]

These things are cyclical.  Some years the School Staff want you to wear the Accoutrement's of the Trade you are going into on OT.  Other years the Staff want you to wear the Accoutrement's of the Trade that you are currently qualified in.  It would be safe to have both A and B with you, seeing as you have them all done up, and be ready for whatever the School wants.

 

[agc]

The dress manual is pretty vague about this.  All it says is that the correct wear of these badges is dictated by the branch advisor.  I don't know if it has changed since I was in CFSAL, but all the retreads on my course had to wear log badges and insignia like the rest of us.  I agree with G.W., if you can get your hands on it, bring both sets with you.

 

[aesop081]

until you are trade qual'd in your new trade you are still qual'd your old trade...

This is not relevant. You can be qual'ed in anything you want, the fact is that on the effective date of an OT, the member ceases to belong to the old MOS and is now on the books of the new.

 

[Biohazardxj]

Being staff at both CFSAL and PRETC in the very recent past.  Baby Clerks will wear the RMS/Log stuff on their uniform on day one at CFSAL.  If you must spend time at PRETC prior to going on your QL3, you wear your old trade stuff until you walk across the parking lot to CFSAL.

 

 

[ammocat]

I work at CFSAL ETC, which is a different cadre than RMS. All of our students show up day one wearing Log cap badge on their berets, including the OT's. During course they are not expected to having anything on their DEU's, except rank and name tag. When graduation approaches and the CD is fairly sure we will not lose any more students he submits a course nominal roll to clothing stores and gets shoulder flashes and collar dogs for each student free of charge. On graduation parade students receive their trade badges which are sewn on when they get to their gaining units, which is where they will also receive their appropriate command badge.

There is normally a lot of tolerance at the start of course to get personnel sorted out as from time to time students show up with black beret, previous unit/trade cap badges etc and there are often shortages of cap badges and other items.

 

[AmmoTech90]

When the Log Branch first got accouterments (around 93 I believe as the Sr AT in Wainwright was considerate enough to mail a set to each of troops who were on their QL5 in Borden along with a note saying we each owed him $25) they were purchase your own.  Flash forward to 08 at Clothing Stores in Pet and I see the shoulder titles in the bin for issue.  So sometime in that 15 years they became issue.

Kit shops would still stock them for two reasons, convenience of the member as noted before, or overstock from when they were purchase only items.

 

[clericalchronicals]

Just to clarify on this...during my days playing the ULO Clerk game...here's the way it runs...if you read the messages when a person remusters to a new occupation it states RMS CLK EFFECTIVE DD MMM YY.  On that date, the former occupation accoutrements are to be replaced with the new occupation. 

It's in the dress regs too, can't remember the reference but anyway, we had that problem for pers who were qual'd in a former occupation going into a new one, whereas the majority of them had never even seen a uniform before...

And any clerks out there seeing this know what I mean.  A lot of the time people think, "oh, I need to be occupation qualified before I am actually that occupation."  Here's an example so you all know how it works, and how the HR realm sees it;

QL5A Infanteer remusters to RMS Clerk, on the effective date of OT, member becomes RMS Clerk QL0.

Just used that as an example, but it's the same for all occupations.  The date your OT takes effect, qualified or not, you are that occupation and are required to wear the accoutrements accordingly!

Cheers!

 

[eurowing]

I prefer the idea that one would earn the right to the hatbadge following successful completion of trades training.  As a 021 in 76, we were not out of the cornflake until graduation from TQ3.  Same with my remuster to Aero Engine in 81. We Air Forced for grad parade.  Just my 2 cents.

 

[clericalchronicals]

I prefer the idea that one would earn the right to the hatbadge following successful completion of trades training.  As a 021 in 76, we were not out of the cornflake until graduation from TQ3.  Same with my remuster to Aero Engine in 81. We Air Forced for grad parade.  Just my 2 cents.

No, I follow you on that one!  And some occupations, that is the way.  You won't get your cap badge until you get the qual, I just know from personal experience that many don't do it that way, they follow the dress regs.  I suppose it's to each their own really.

Cheers!