- Reaction score
dapaterson said:So you're saying the RCAF should try recruiting their technicians?
SHHHHH don't give them any ideas.....
dapaterson said:So you're saying the RCAF should try recruiting their technicians?
In some cases, it may not be cheap/easy to bring a dead loved one back from a country we don't have diplomatic relations with. And so far, Canada and others have been clear that they expect IRN to cough up, too. How long that'll take? I'm not optimistic.Jarnhamar said:I keep reading about compensation and money. Ukraine is giving people $8000 (or whatever) Canada is giving vicitims $25'000, Iran better compensate too!
Seems like the spotlight shifted to money pretty quick.
Remember where you've seen that? I haven't seen the $2M figure myself, but it's not a wild-ass figure. If Canada does pay that range of money per family/victim/whatever, I really hope Iran'll be paying that back. Fingers crossed ...Jarnhamar said:I read somewhere families might get compensated up to $2million from Canada. Will this be a standard when a Canadian is accidentally killed or murdered abroad? At home?
Jarnhamar said:I read somewhere families might get compensated up to $2million from Canada.
Thanks for that!mariomike said:"The outlay will cost just over $2 million to the government."
milnews.ca said:Thanks for that!
And there's also the classic manouver that gets used in these situations as well - although often an exceedingly sloooooooow one ...Jarnhamar said:Speaking of compensation I was reading there were a few GoFundMe pages that got squashed because they referenced the Middle East and Iran. Also sanctions against Iran seem to play a part in raising money for Canadians.
Announced Today - the filing of a proposed class action against Iran, the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps and the Ukrainian Airline concerning the downing of Flight PS752.
On January 8, 2020, UIA Flight PS752 took off hours after the IRGC fired missiles and struck US bases in Iraq. Minutes after takeoff, IRGC missiles struck Flight PS752, causing it to crash to the ground. There were no survivors.
The class action is on behalf of the passengers and the passengers' families. The Aircraft was carrying 176 people on board, including 9 crew members, 15 children, 57 Canadian citizens; and 138 of the passengers were returning to Canada. New York-based litigation funding company, Galactic Litigation Partners LLC has agreed, subject to court approval, to finance the class action.
Iran ultimately admitted its missile defence system shot down the plane after initially blaming technical or mechanical error. Iranian President Hassan Rouhani stated it was an "unforgiveable mistake".
Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau said "shooting down a civilian aircraft is horrific", "Iran must take full responsibility" and "we expect Iran to compensate these families." Ukrainian officials said that Iran should compensate the victims' families.
At the time of the crash, the US Federal Aviation Administration banned civilian aircraft from flying over the region. After the downing of Malaysian Airlines Flight 17 in 2014, many airlines respect FAA notices when making safety decisions. Several airlines, including Austrian Airlines, Air France, Air India, and KLM, rerouted their flights. Other airlines such as Emirates, Lufthansa, Flydubai and Turkish Airlines cancelled flights to airports in Iran and Iraq.
Flight PS752 departed despite the known risks ...
The Transportation Safety Board of Canada (TSB) is committed to keeping Canadians, particularly the families and loved ones of those killed in the downing of Ukrainian International Airlines flight PS752, informed of its activities in support of the Iranian-led safety investigation as soon as, and to the greatest extent, it can.
The TSB’s two investigators have completed their work in Tehran and Kyiv and will soon be heading home to Canada.
Investigation activities to date
As previously indicated, two TSB air accident investigators spent 6 days in Tehran, where they had several meetings with officials from the Aircraft Accident Investigation Bureau of the Islamic Republic of Iran (AAIB), visited the accident site, and examined the wreckage, which is secured in a separate location. The AAIB was cooperative and helpful in its interactions with the TSB investigators.
This week, the TSB investigators spent two days in Kyiv for joint meetings with the AAIB of Iran and the National Bureau of Air Accidents Investigation of Ukraine NBAAI, during which they continued to share information regarding the investigation. In particular, an assessment is underway regarding the feasibility of downloading the aircraft flight data and cockpit voice recorders in Ukraine.
Next steps: Flight data and cockpit voice recorders
The TSB understands that the aircraft’s flight data and cockpit voice recorders—the “black boxes”—are still in Iran, and that Iran is assessing options for their download and analysis, including doing it in Iran. The TSB has been invited to participate in the download and analysis of the recorders and will deploy a second team of investigators who specialize in aircraft recorder download and analysis wherever and whenever that activity takes place.
This safety investigation doesn’t end with the downloading of these recorders. While this activity may provide additional critical data, there is much more analysis required of all the information gathered in order to determine the many factors that caused or contributed to this accident.
Annex 13 safety investigations, and investigations by other organizations
The purpose of a safety investigation conducted under Annex 13 to the Convention on International Civil Aviation, governed by the International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO), is to find all causal and contributing factors to an accident, without attributing blame or civil or criminal liability. This allows the focus to be placed on addressing safety deficiencies, and on preventing similar accidents from happening again. Experience has shown that a thorough safety-focused independent investigation offers the best chance of confirming what really happened and providing the answers that everyone is asking for, particularly for the families who lost so much.
The TSB is pleased that ICAO has accepted an invitation from the government of the Islamic Republic of Iran to provide expert advice in support of the safety investigation of the aircraft accident involving PS752.
Other organizations may also be conducting their own investigations into this accident, and for different purposes—including, for instance, judicial proceedings. To be clear, that kind of investigation is outside the TSB’s mandate, and Annex 13 expressly provides for the separation of these investigations.
Canada’s status under Annex 13 to the Convention on International Civil Aviation
In accordance with Annex 13, Iran is the State of Occurrence, and consequently the AAIB of Iran is leading the investigation into the accident. The role of other involved States is similarly prescribed by Annex 13.
Because so many Canadians died in this accident, Annex 13 entitles the TSB to appoint an Expert. In this role, we are entitled only to visit the accident site, have access to the relevant factual information approved for public release by the AAIB, monitor the progress of the investigation, and receive a copy of the final report (see the Backgrounder).
The AAIB has permitted the TSB to participate in the investigation to a greater extent than this by inviting TSB investigators not only to view the scene of the accident but also to examine the wreckage and participate in the download and analysis of the recorders, whenever and wherever that will occur.
The TSB continues to pursue increased involvement in the safety investigation by seeking status as an Accredited Representative (section 5.25 of Annex 13; see the Backgrounder). Accredited Representative status would entitle the TSB to participate in all aspects of the investigation, under the control of the AAIB’s investigator-in-charge. This would mean, among other things, that the TSB could suggest areas of enquiry and have full access to relevant data.
Adding Canada’s world-class expertise in independent air transportation safety investigation to this international effort would mean a lot to those affected by this tragedy, whether in Canada, in Iran, in Ukraine, and around the world. It could become a significant example of cooperation in the aviation industry on the world stage.
Limitations on information-sharing during the safety investigation
Regardless of TSB’s status in the investigation, we must emphasize that, under Annex 13 of the Convention on International Civil Aviation, the TSB is not allowed to release any information regarding the progress or results of the investigation without the permission of the AAIB of Iran.
The TSB must, and will, respect the limitations on its role in this foreign investigation.
We will therefore continue to make public only the information that we can validate and that we are allowed to release. Doing otherwise would undermine our relationships with our international partners.
The TSB has not released the identities of its investigators in order to protect their and their families’ privacy, as well as to facilitate security arrangements while they were overseas. The TSB will continue to maintain the confidentiality of its investigation team until further notice.
Possible delays in other TSB investigations
Given the significant resources that the TSB is dedicating to this investigation, there have been questions about its effect on our other investigations. The TSB will carry out its mandate, responding to transportation occurrences as it always does, but we will have to adjust resources and timelines for some ongoing investigations.
At this time, there is no new factual information to report with respect to the TSB’s deployment to Tehran and Kyiv. We will provide further updates as and when we can. Specifically, we will notify the public of any change in our status under Annex 13, or when there is news regarding the deployment of our specialists to participate in the download and analysis of the recorders. ...
... as well as some MSM:The International Coordination and Response Group for the victims of Flight PS752 held its fifth meeting yesterday (3 Feb 2020) by teleconference.
The participants were representatives of:
All countries used the opportunity to update on their respective repatriation processes.
Importantly, they agreed on the need for continued pressure to secure closure, accountability, transparency and justice for the victims of flight PS752.
All countries are concerned with Iran’s failure to release the black boxes. Annex 13 to the Convention on Civil Aviation requires this take place without delay. Iran must release the black boxes immediately as a demonstration of continued willingness to have a full and transparent account of this event.
Minister Champagne shared with the group that he had made an official approach to the International Civil Aviation Organization on this matter with Transport Minister Marc Garneau last Friday.
Furthermore, all participants are committed to finding common ground on legal options for negotiations with Iran regarding its responsibility in this act in order to bring justice, including equal compensation to the families of the victims of flight PS752.
Canada, Ukraine, Sweden, Afghanistan and the United Kingdom, the members of the International Coordination and Response Group for the victims of Flight PS752, held a second in-person meeting on the margins of the Munich Security Conference today to advance work on the framework of cooperation with Iran presented in London, United Kingdom, on January 16, 2020.
Today, the ministers of the coordination group will present a letter to Mohammad Javad Zarif, Iran’s Minister of Foreign Affairs, in which they reaffirm the need to provide closure, accountability, transparency and justice for the families and loved ones of the victims.
During a brief discussion with Minister Zarif, the ministers of the coordination group pressed Iran to continue to take necessary active steps toward the resolution of the many crucial questions of fact and of law raised by the downing of the flight. The group’s ministers urged a transparent and thorough safety investigation, in compliance with the standards and practices of the International Civil Aviation Organization. They also called for timely and equitable compensation consistent with international precedents. Lastly, the group’s ministers urged Iran to complete a thorough and transparent criminal investigation of the downing of PS752.
In addition, the Coordination Group also discussed the need to improve aviation security and air travel near or over conflict zones.
Iran is underwhelmed by the decision -- decision from Zarei v Iran, 2021 ONSC 3377 here (also attached in case link doesn't work).An Ontario court has ruled that the Iranian military's downing of a passenger jet early last year was an intentional act of terrorism, paving the way for relatives of those killed to seek compensation from the country.
In the decision, Ontario Superior Court Justice Edward Belobaba found on a balance of probabilities that the missiles that shot down Ukraine International Airlines Flight 752 on Jan. 8, 2020, were fired deliberately at a time when there was no armed conflict in the area.
As a result, he found it constituted an act of terrorism that would invalidate Iran's immunity against civil litigation.
The ruling says that while the State Immunity Act protects foreign states from legal claims, the Justice for Victims of Terrorism Act provides an exception in cases where the losses are caused by terrorist activity ...
Not insulting your post by any means, it's always good to know something new.Bumped with the latest from an Ontario court ....
Iran is underwhelmed by the decision -- decision from Zarei v Iran, 2021 ONSC 3377 here (also attached in case link doesn't work).
1000% - just sharing for the record... I highly doubt Iran would ever pay a dime.
Meanwhile, "Iran dismisses Canada report on downing of airline as 'highly politicised' "... Given the totality of information available, the Forensic Team concludes that a series of acts and omissions by Iranian civil and military authorities caused a dangerous situation where previously identified risks were underestimated and not taken seriously. These acts and omissions were both in the development and the implementation of plans, systems and procedures. The following decisions created the conditions that allowed the SAM operator to launch missiles at Flight PS752:
While the decision to keep the airspace open was arguably shared between military and civilian decision makers, the remaining decisions were exclusively made by Iran’s military.
- They launched a premeditated attack on US positions in Iraq that they believed, by their own admission, would likely generate a US response.
- They planned how they would likely respond to the anticipated US retaliation.
- They put their air defence on the highest level of alert and likely delegated down to a lower level authority to fire on aerial targets.
- They positioned anti-aircraft systems on high alert in close proximity to an international airport and tasked IRGC personnel with monitoring airspace in which approaching and departing civilian flights would be present.
- They conducted a severely flawed analysis, which determined that the risk of Iranian air defence forces misidentifying a civilian aircraft was “low.”
- Based on this analysis and despite these proximate military threats, they decided to keep the airspace over Tehran open; they issued no official warnings to civilian aircraft and they implemented only one measure to prevent misidentification that would have applied to Flight PS752. This measure failed due to foreseeable military inadequacies.
The Forensic Team assesses that Iran’s official account of events, and specifically its Final Report, is absent a recognition of these deficiencies and the broader context of decision making. Moreover, Iran’s account of events to date has been wholly inadequate. While the Forensic Team believes that target misidentification was one of the causes, the Iranian government cannot expect the international community to set aside the other clear, immediate and systemic causes and contributing factors. This report has identified many of these failures and has indicated, where possible, the evidence that supports the Forensic Team’s assessment.
The Forensic Team determined Iran has fallen well short of providing a credible explanation of how and why the IRGC downed Flight PS752. While the Forensic Team found no evidence that the downing of Flight PS752 was premeditated, this in no way absolves Iran of its responsibility for the death of 176 innocent people. Iran is ultimately responsible for the actions it took – or failed to take – which led to the shoot-down. Iran’s Final Report does not provide any explanation as to why basic preventative measures were not taken that could have avoided this tragedy. Iran is responsible for failing to protect these civilian lives and for its lack of subsequent transparency. Iran must provide solid evidence to establish the credibility of its account and remove any doubt on the chain of events that led to this tragedy.
Iran’s Final Report claims that Iran and the IRGC have instituted unspecified and unsubstantiated actions in response to its investigative findings. Iran has failed to clearly demonstrate what these actions were and what steps need to be taken to address the numerous deficiencies that caused and contributed to the downing of Flight PS752. There is no explanation of how similar shoot-downs might be prevented in the future. Most troubling, Iran has not outlined any concrete actions taken by the Iranian military to address the stated cause of the tragedy – the launching of missiles at a civilian aircraft.
Moving forward, it is of particular importance for the victims’ families, Canada, and the international community that Iran provide a transparent and credible explanation of the downing and provide facts to back up its assertions. Without knowing the answers to the many remaining critical questions, the international community cannot conclude that these deficiencies have been resolved. The international community is left to assume that civilian aircraft in Iranian airspace are still at risk, particularly when Iran heightens its defence posture during times of increased tension ...
now try and collect
It appears we now have a figure that IRN is unlikely to pay ....... highly doubt Iran would ever pay a dime.
An Ontario court has awarded $107 million, plus interest, to the families of six people who died in the destruction of Ukraine International Airlines Flight 752 almost two years ago.
The decision was issued publicly today after Justice Edward Belobaba of Ontario's Superior Court of Justice ruled in May that the destruction of the commercial plane shortly after takeoff in Tehran was an intentional act of terrorism.
In a decision dated Dec. 31, Belobaba awarded $100 million in punitive damages to be shared by the estates of the six victims. The decision awarded another $1 million to family members for the loss of guidance, care and companionship, and $6 million for pain and suffering.
Arnold has said that his team will look to seize Iranian assets in Canada and abroad. He said Iran has oil tankers in other countries and his team will be looking to seize whatever it can to pay what the families are owed ...