8 Canadians killed in Israeli airstrikes, Ottawa sends ships for evacuation

[paracowboy]

If you fled Lebanon and got a Cdn passport and have now returned to Lebanon then your not Canadian.

oh, bullshit! There are many folks who have returned to Lebanon that need to get shot, but your criteria is stupid.

 

[Kirkhill]

Seems to be an awful lot of speculation here with very few facts.  Didn't we just go through this with respect to serving soldiers?  Don't these people deserve at least the same consideration?

 

[-dikweed-]

Great quote by Bill Graham:

“I think what we do have to do is ensure, obviously, the security of our vessels...If the Americans, the British and the French can assure the security of their vessels, I'm sure that we should be able to do the same thing,” Liberal Leader Bill Graham said, appearing on CTV.

“I don't see why it would be any more difficult for us than for them.”

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20060718.wlebancan0718/BNStory/International/home

_______

Didn't his party gut our navy?  Is he senile or something?

 

[Teddy Ruxpin]

That's OK, the NDP's Alexa McDonough was on TV this morning spouting on about Canada being unable to conduct an evacuation because we were "fighting George Bush's war"... :

I suppose that means that the NDP will be supporting the Chinook purchase and the impending BHS project - both would be perfect in an evacuation scenario.  Heh...what am I thinking?

 

[Cdn Blackshirt]

That's OK, the NDP's Alexa McDonough was on TV this morning spouting on about Canada being unable to conduct an evacuation because we were "fighting George Bush's war"... :

I suppose that means that the NDP will be supporting the Chinook purchase and the impending BHS project - both would be perfect in an evacuation scenario.  Heh...what am I thinking?

As long as I live, I will never understand how anyone can think like the NDP does....and the huge number of voters who support them, I find absolutely terrifying.


Matthew.  ???

 

[Kirkhill]

That's OK, the NDP's Alexa McDonough was on TV this morning spouting on about Canada being unable to conduct an evacuation because we were "fighting George Bush's war"... :

I suppose that means that the NDP will be supporting the Chinook purchase and the impending BHS project - both would be perfect in an evacuation scenario.  Heh...what am I thinking?

I am assuming you are referring to the ultra-sonic, superfast BHS being developed as we speak for Canadian service capable of getting from Halifax to anywhere in the world in under two days and lifting 50,000 passengers at once.

Or maybe Alexa et al want us to station BHSs in every trouble spot that Canadians find themselves.  Just in case.  :

 

[Brad Sallows]

>If they return to their home countries to work/live etc, should they be required to renounce their citizenship?.

What an odd universe you inhabit.  Surely one's "home country" is the one in which one holds citizenship.  What are we doing that causes and permits inhabitants of foreign countries to obtain Canadian citizenship as a convenience, and how should it be stopped so that only people who want to make Canada "home" come to, and are admitted to, Canada?

 

[orange.paint]

My thoughts and condolences go out to the families of these Canadians.Regardless where they were they were still Canadian civilians.My family goes back to the motherland from time to time,makes them no less Canadian.

again my condolences to those who were close to them

 

[Edward Campbell]

Is it only me?

Does anyone else see the inherent nonsense in Bill Graham’s position as reported in today’s National Post at:  http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/story.html?id=441dc7c6-0cf8-4b2e-93c9-3534b8eadecb&k=18111 ?

Graham is quoted as saying:

"Canada has always had a proud tradition in the Middle East of being able to work with all parties in a way to establish the conditions of a long and lasting peace,"

I agree we have a ‘tradition’ – going back to the ‘50s – of being even handed (whatever that means) but it has, clearly and obviously, had NO impact at all on Middle East peace or lack of same.  There has not been any peace in the Middle East since the ‘40s much less “a long and lasting peace” - what is Bill Graham smoking?

I agree, in part, with the some of the comments by Larry C. Johnson posted here:  http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/47644/post-413919.html#msg413919 and with some of the commentary.  Specifically I agree with Johnson when he says:

…
What about Hamas and Hezbollah?

They are not terrorists. They carry out terrorist attacks, but they are not terrorists. They are something far more dangerous. They are a fully functioning political, social, religious, and military organizations that use terrorism tactics, but they are far more formidable than terrorist groups like Al Qaeda or the Basque Terrorist Organization.
…

I’m not sure I agree that Israel’s response is either disproportionate or illogical.  I would rather that Israel was able to discriminate between shades of civilian grey but were I facing the IDF my last choice would be to fight ‘out in the open’ (as we expect Western (including Israeli) soldiers to do) – I would want to run and hide in a school or hospital, behind women’s skirts, etc.

I think Israeli (probably any) direct military action is a short term band-aid, at best.  I believe we, the American led West (which includes e.g. Fiji, Malaysia, Japan and Singapore), need to ferment revolutions of all sorts throughout the region in order to provoke a generation or two of bloody murderous, internecine Arab/Islamic unrest and violence which might, hopefully, provoke Islamic intellectuals to begin a religious and social reformation which, I believe is an essential precondition to an absolutely necessary enlightenment throughout the Arab and Iranian dominated Islamic Crescent stretching from the Western tip of North Africa through the Middle east and South Asia all the way to Indonesia.

Canada’s neutrality is now and has always been a waste of time.  We are, at best, a bit player in the region and we have never – not in ’56 nor again in ’73 – been anything more.  Our influence was and remains zilch which was made abundantly clear in 1956 when Egyptian President Nasser obliged Canada to change its contribution to the United Nations Emergency Force from a battalion of infantry to a mixed bag of combat support and service units because Egypt (he, personally) was ‘offended’ by the ”Britishness” of the Queens Own Rifles of Canada name and badges – that big silver maple leaf really must have confused him.

I am pretty sure that Bill Graham is a smart fellow; I think he even thinks about and cares about the world situation and about Canada’s potential roles in the world; it might even be possible that Graham understands that Canada is a charter member of the West and that we are not neutral, and will not be allowed (by the new ‘enemy’) to pretend otherwise.  I even think he knows that we need effective, balanced, combat capable and combat ready armed forces to the government options when it confronts a dangerous world.  I think Graham parks his brains and thoughts when it is necessary to engage in the sophomoric game called Canadian political discourse – he probably does so because he knows that the third rate Canadian media will not publish rational thoughts: they just want controversial, adversarial ten second sound bites.

Edit: sentence structure

   

 

[Kirkhill]

.......Regardless where they were they were still Canadian civilians.My family goes back to the motherland from time to time,makes them no less Canadian. ......

Likewise.

Edit: I just realized when editing rcac_011's post for emphasis that I had nowhere offered my condolences to the family involved.  I do that now.  No matter what cause some members of the family may or may not serve nobody deserves to see the innocent die.  My condolences to the family.

 

[CanadaPhil]

..................
No matter what cause some members of the family may or may not serve nobody deserves to see the innocent die.  My condolences to the family.

I firmly believe that loss of innocent life is tragic.

When I first heard about the deaths of Canadians I did feel much sadness for them.

However, I have to admit that when I heard and saw the comments of the relatives in Montreal and heard a few more details, I would be a liar if I didn't say that I was %&^*($# enraged!

I mean, I know that they are grieving and in pain, but HOW DARE you act as an apologist for a murderous terrorist organization and blame your government for what happened????

Maybe, I just don't get this terrorist label thing.

Apparently, Hezbollah, Hamas and others are on a list of BANNED TERRORRIST Organizations, and as such it is apparently ILLEGAL for a Canadian citizen to otherwise AID, FUND, or be a MEMBER OF any such organization. And apparently, any evidence of a prior association in such an organization are grounds for an immediate denial of a citizenship or refugee claimant application.

So then why should it be OK for Canadian citizens to openly SUPPORT Hezbollah???

 

[GAP]

I firmly believe that loss of innocent life is tragic.
Apparently, Hezbollah, Hamas and others are on a list of BANNED TERRORRIST Organizations, and as such it is apparently ILLEGAL for a Canadian citizen to otherwise AID, FUND, or be a MEMBER OF any such organization. And apparently, any evidence of a prior association in such an organization are grounds for an immediate denial of a citizenship or refugee claimant application.
So then why should it be OK for Canadian citizens to openly SUPPORT Hezbollah???

good point... but does the government have the will to do it?

 

[Kirkhill]

So then why should it be OK for Canadian citizens to openly SUPPORT Hezbollah???

Perhaps it shouldn't be if laws are in place to ban the discussion and support of other philosophies and organizations.  Personally I am not in favour of those existing laws but that is another tale entirely.

My point is that recently we were railing against individuals speaking out of turn during a time of grief and the media picking it up causing hardship for friends, family and associates.  I think we should at least attempt to look at this in a similar light.  We don't know all the facts of the situation.....beyond this: you don't get to pick your relatives and if you are 5 years old you go where mommy and daddy go.  Those that are left behind are going to miss you.

 

[tingbudong]

What an odd universe you inhabit.  Surely one's "home country" is the one in which one holds citizenship.

A manner of semantics...I suppose I should have written "return to one's country of birth".

Speaking as someone who routinely deals with those seeking a life in Canada, I can comment that a majority savour citizenship not for themselves, but for their children. 

 

[snowy]

Israel has the right to defend itself, Hezbollah  querrillas are  a group of terrorists who want to stop the advance of peace.


snowy

 

[bilton090]

My thoughts and condolences go out to the families of these Canadians.Regardless where they were they were still Canadian civilians.My family goes back to the motherland from time to time,makes them no less Canadian.

again my condolences to those who were close to them

    WTF, these people were supporters of the Hezbollah  they got what was coming !, and there family in Montreal should be rounded up and sent back there !
                                                                                              :evil:

 

[Bo]

Israel has the right to defend itself, Hezbollah  querrillas are  a group of terrorists who want to stop the advance of peace.


snowy

Hmmm let`s see.....nearly 300 civilians killed and massive destruction to civilian infrastructure over the last week in Lebanon.

You call that defense?

I call it a massacre.

 

[GAP]

Hmmm let`s see.....nearly 300 civilians killed and massive destruction to civilian infrastructure over the last week in Lebanon.
You call that defense?
I call it a massacre.

I don't suppose you gave any thought to the fact that Hezbolla is firing from among the civilians to encourage as much civilian damage as possible, knowing that Isreal will counterfire?

 

[George Wallace]

Hmmm let`s see.....nearly 300 civilians killed and massive destruction to civilian infrastructure over the last week in Lebanon.

You call that defense?

I call it a massacre.

You haven't taken into fact that many of these 'villages' are Hezbollah strongholds, and they are not exactly 'innocent' civilians.

Perhaps you would like to look up some of the 'Laws of War' and what is said about purposely targetting 'Civilians'?

Perhaps you would like Israelis to roll over and die after any and all attacks from the Hamas and Hezbollah 'Terrorists"?

Perhaps you would like to look into the UN's declaring that the Lebanese Government destroy Hezbollah, and the fact that instead of that happening, Hezbollah candidates were elected to the Government?

Perhaps you should look deeper into the subject?

I know that there are some interesting articles being published these days......some will make it into this discusion.

 

[paracowboy]

Hmmm let`s see.....nearly 300 civilians killed and massive destruction to civilian infrastructure over the last week in Lebanon.
You call that defense?
I call it a massacre.

and who defines "civilian"? Neither terrorist organization wears uniforms. Both utilize civilian vehicles and buildings (principally schools and hospitals), both are integrated into the entire socio-economic infrastructure of Lebanon. Both teach the children of Palestine and Lebanon to cluster around gunmen when Israeli soldiers return fire. Both teach their children to commit murder and suicide. Both encourage suicide amongst their own populace. Both murder unarmed civilians around the globe for attention.

Wake up.