6 Jan 2020 U.S. Events (Split from A Deeply Fractured US)

[The Bread Guy]

The Dems are responsible for this resultant behavior, with the conception, funding, propagation, and support of the Steele Dossier ...

The Dems DID run with it pretty aggressively, but words matter ....

... Those (Russian) contacts told the Ritz-Carlton story and much else after Simpson and Fritsch commissioned Steele to find out what he could about Russia and Trump, then a political upstart who threatened — and later destroyed — the GOP establishment in the primaries.

Other Republicans wanted to stop Trump. Initially, a conservative billionaire bankrolled the work of Simpson's and Fritsch's company.

When Trump dominated the Republican primaries and the GOP establishment began to accept him, Simpson and Fritsch made a pitch to Democrats, who took over the account. During that phase of the work, they reached out to Steele, a contact they had made years earlier ...

 

[Weinie]

The Dems DID run with it pretty aggressively, but words matter ....

I can split hairs too.

The opposition research conducted by Fusion GPS on Donald Trump was in two distinct operations, each with a different client. The first research operation, from October 2015 to May 2016, was domestic research funded by The Washington Free Beacon. The second operation, from April 2016 to December 2016, was funded by the DNC and the Clinton campaign. Only the second operation involved the foreign research that produced the dossier.[48][49] From April 2016 into early May, the Washington Free Beacon and the Clinton Campaign/DNC were independently both clients of Fusion GPS.

An "agreed chronology" of dossier-related events is published in Appendix C of the Gubarev v Orbis case of October 30 2020.[50]

Research funded by conservative website​

In October 2015, before the official start of the 2016 Republican primary campaign, the founders of Fusion GPS were seeking political work and wrote an email to "a big conservative donor they knew who disliked Trump, [and] they were hired". He arranged for them to use The Washington Free Beacon, an American conservative political journalism website, for their general opposition research on several Republican presidential candidates, including Trump.[4][51] It is primarily funded by Republican donor Paul Singer.[51] The Free Beacon and Singer were "part of the conservative never-Trump movement".[52]

Early in their investigation, they received help from investigative reporter Wayne Barrett, who gave them his files on Trump. They contained findings about "Trump's past dealings, including tax and bankruptcy problems, potential ties to organized crime, and numerous legal entanglements. They also revealed that Trump had an unusually high number of connections to Russians with questionable backgrounds."[4]

For months, Fusion GPS gathered information about Trump, focusing on his business and entertainment activities. When Trump became the presumptive nominee on May 3, 2016,[53] the conservative donor stopped funding the research on him.

 

[lenaitch]

I don't know if it is legal for civilians to carry them, but why would anyone want to?

Although manufacturers have come out with designs particularly law enforcement, if an electrician or homeowner carries them, they are called cable ties or zip ties.

 

[The Bread Guy]

Although manufacturers have come out with designs particularly law enforcement, if an electrician or homeowner carries them, they are called cable ties or zip ties.

True, dat, but are these the same kind of cable ties electricians/plumbers use routinely (I ask because I'm neither)? (source)

 

[Ralph]

Does two wrongs make a right in your mind?

No - I was actually agreeing with your idea that if you spread crap, you will likely step in it. However - some of the conclusions in the partially-Democrat-funded Steele Dossier have since been verified by U.S. intelligence agencies, to wit, Russia played an interfering role in the 2016 U.S. election. Some of the people named in the dossier have since been convicted of crimes in a court of law. Further, some of the points have not been disproven, which means one can only hold the opinion that they're either unfounded or unproven.
From your statements, I gather you are of the personal opinion that this document - and what you believe to be misinformation held within - holds the same strength and fallout as the misinformation spread by the current U.S. president which has been proven, beyond a shadow of a doubt, by both Republicans and not, to be an absolute 100% untruth - that he somehow won the 2020 election and the Democrats stole it from him. We're all entitled to our own opinions.

 

[Weinie]

No - I was actually agreeing with your idea that if you spread crap, you will likely step in it. However - some of the conclusions in the partially-Democrat-funded Steele Dossier have since been verified by U.S. intelligence agencies, to wit, Russia played an interfering role in the 2016 U.S. election. Some of the people named in the dossier have since been convicted of crimes in a court of law. Further, some of the points have not been disproven, which means one can only hold the opinion that they're either unfounded or unproven.
From your statements, I gather you are of the personal opinion that this document - and what you believe to be misinformation held within - holds the same strength and fallout as the misinformation spread by the current U.S. president which has been proven, beyond a shadow of a doubt, by both Republicans and not, to be an absolute 100% untruth - that he somehow won the 2020 election and the Democrats stole it from him. We're all entitled to our own opinions.

Actually I am of the opinion that the Steele Dossier and it's fallout goaded/steered POTUS into the dark hole from which he spewed his bile and he was never ever given the benefit of the doubt, which would likely make many of us lash out and push back. That too, was wrong. Cause and effect.

 

[OceanBonfire]

One of the zip tie guy has been identified. It's sad that his family and a longtime friend and military colleague saw his mind fall:

Two family members and a longtime friend said that Brock’s political views had grown increasingly radical in recent years. Bill Leake, who flew with Brock in the Air Force for a decade, said that he had distanced himself from Brock. “I don’t contact him anymore ’cause he’s gotten extreme,” Leake told me.

An Air Force Combat Veteran Breached the Senate

The Texas-based pilot was with a group that descended on House Speaker Nancy Pelosi’s office suite.

www.newyorker.com

Insurrectionist ‘Zip-Tie Guy’ identified as retired Air Force lieutenant colonel

Retired Lt. Col. Larry Rendall Brock Jr. was photographed on the Senate floor in combat gear holding zip tie handcuffs.

www.airforcetimes.com

 

[Brad Sallows]

By singling out and persecuting do you mean arresting them if they break the law?

No. Arresting some people if they break the law, while not arresting others if they break the law.

Apply laws equally. Do not deviate from customary practices and guidelines.

 

[Brad Sallows]

2) So the alternative is to let the worst 2% just carry on and not be dealt with?

Yes and no. Let the worst 2% carry on, but at a lower level of intensity, and apply the law judiciously rather than punitively with rage in the hearts of the punishers. Stop fueling the rage of the disaffected. Avoid the unnecessary battle.

My hypothesis: this is bad, but it's not as bad as it can get.

 

[Ralph]

Actually I am of the opinion that the Steele Dossier and it's fallout goaded/steered POTUS into the dark hole from which he spewed his bile and he was never ever given the benefit of the doubt, which would likely make many of us lash out and push back. That too, was wrong. Cause and effect.

Right. So if the anti-Trumpers who initially helped fund it hadn't done so, he wouldn't have been triggered into becoming what many believe is the most below-average POTUS in modern history. Yeah, you're probably right.

 

[Weinie]

1) That can apply to either end of the political spectrum, for sure.

2) So the alternative is to let the worst 2% just carry on and not be dealt with?

#NoEasyAnswers

No easy answers indeed.

Support the actions of the 2% on the left and be described as a radical socialist, don't support them and be termed a racist and fascist.

Support the actions of the 2% on the right and be described as white-supremacist and racist, don't support them and be described as un-patriotic and a radical socialist.

Support the 96% in the middle, and be described as not engaged or uncaring to the plight of others.

I support the primacy of democratic legislated and drafted law. The current legislation/law that we and other countries have is, in most cases, sufficient to deal with those who break these laws. They just need to be enforced.

 

[Brad Sallows]

True, dat, but are these the same kind of cable ties electricians/plumbers use routinely

I use cable ties, but generally you don't need that double-loop design for tying cables.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

The Dems had a chance to condemn this behaviour, while simultaneously appealing for unity. But no, they doubled down with talk of impeachment., which is going to further rile up the yahoos. Good start Biden, good start.

Encouraging the beheading of the POTUS and calling it "art" is just a sample of the stuff the progressives put out. The hate they have for him is quite unreal. I can get why people don't like him or think he is a poor choice for POTUS, but this is the same level of hate that you see with groups that kill. Trying to impeach him with 2 weeks left is completely unhinged, and it's not going to stop, there is going to be a "ethic cleansing" of the political and bureaucratic systems of anyone who has or shows any sympathy or support of him.

 

[Weinie]

Right. So if the anti-Trumpers who initially helped fund it hadn't done so, he wouldn't have been triggered into becoming what many believe is the most below-average POTUS in modern history. Yeah, you're probably right.

So if I hand you a bag of shyte, and say "This is a bag of shyte." and then you take the bag of shyte out and throw it on people and then rub it in their faces, who is the bad guy....me...... for giving you the bag of shyte, or you....for rubbing it in their faces.

Chainsaw good, if you build cabin. Chainsaw bad, if you cut people up.

 

[Altair]

Encouraging the beheading of the POTUS and calling it "art" is just a sample of the stuff the progressives put out. The hate they have for him is quite unreal. I can get why people don't like him or think he is a poor choice for POTUS, but this is the same level of hate that you see with groups that kill. Trying to impeach him with 2 weeks left is completely unhinged, and it's not going to stop, there is going to be a "ethic cleansing" of the political and bureaucratic systems of anyone who has or shows any sympathy or support of him.

It might just be an attempt to send a message.

That one cannot invite a crowd, work them up, and have said crowd storm the capital building during a joint session of congress, realistically putting the lives of elected officials in danger, without some form of consequence.

 

[Ralph]

So if I hand you a bag of shyte, and say "This is a bag of shyte." and then you take the bag of shyte out and throw it on people and then rub it in their faces, who is the bad guy....me...... for giving you the bag of shyte, or you....for rubbing it in their faces.

Chainsaw good, if you build cabin. Chainsaw bad, if you cut people up.

Both of us?

 

[Brad Sallows]

Quibbling over the origins of the Steele dossier misses the important point, which is the mindset of the previous administration and some of the people in its agencies. Regardless who kicked the ball, they ran with it. To understand the mindset, read about what happened to Flynn over his conversation with Kislyak. The previous administration tried very hard to find reasons to investigate people associated with the incoming administration. Investigations turned up nothing of consequence on the heart of the matter - "collusion". It has been a long and difficult pull (which reflects badly on the agencies) for the people who have been digging into the conduct of those investigations, and some of the information obtained so far reflects badly on the agencies (their motives and conduct). Once again, it isn't necessary to postulate a grand conspiracy where a bunch of little conspiracies by like-minded and -motivated people will do.

Trump, who ridiculously claims he won the 2016 election in a landslide, might merely be indulging his habit of self-promotion when he claims he won this one. But it should be tediously obvious that from his point-of-view one set of underhanded operations were undertaken against him. Why, then - in light of all the people who have openly objected to and vilified him for four years, including some Republicans - would it be unreasonable for him to believe that a second set of underhanded operations were taken against him during the 2020 election? To understand is not to excuse, but to pretend it doesn't matter is stupid to the bone.

To cite one infamous example, Comey repeatedly reassured Trump that the latter was not under investigation at a time when Trump was still very much a person of interest (or whatever term of art he fit at that time - subject, target, etc). If the FBI director lied to his president's face, why wouldn't the president reserve the right to suspect anyone?

 

[Altair]

Quibbling over the origins of the Steele dossier misses the important point, which is the mindset of the previous administration and some of the people in its agencies. Regardless who kicked the ball, they ran with it. To understand the mindset, read about what happened to Flynn over his conversation with Kislyak. The previous administration tried very hard to find reasons to investigate people associated with the incoming administration. Investigations turned up nothing of consequence on the heart of the matter - "collusion". It has been a long and difficult pull (which reflects badly on the agencies) for the people who have been digging into the conduct of those investigations, and some of the information obtained so far reflects badly on the agencies (their motives and conduct). Once again, it isn't necessary to postulate a grand conspiracy where a bunch of little conspiracies by like-minded and -motivated people will do.

Trump, who ridiculously claims he won the 2016 election in a landslide, might merely be indulging his habit of self-promotion when he claims he won this one. But it should be tediously obvious that from his point-of-view one set of underhanded operations were undertaken against him. Why, then - in light of all the people who have openly objected to and vilified him for four years, including some Republicans - would it be unreasonable for him to believe that a second set of underhanded operations were taken against him during the 2020 election? To understand is not to excuse, but to pretend it doesn't matter is stupid to the bone.

To cite one infamous example, Comey repeatedly reassured Trump that the latter was not under investigation at a time when Trump was still very much a person of interest (or whatever term of art he fit at that time - subject, target, etc). If the FBI director lied to his president's face, why wouldn't the president reserve the right to suspect anyone?

This is off topic and will do nothing but get this thread locked.

 

[Brad Sallows]

If talk about how Trump influenced the events of 6 Jan 2020 is on topic, talk about how prior events influenced Trump and his supporters is on topic. It is meaningless to pretend to talk about how people are moved to act without considering all things they might find provocative.

 

[OceanBonfire]

Encouraging the beheading of the POTUS and calling it "art" is just a sample of the stuff the progressives put out. The hate they have for him is quite unreal. I can get why people don't like him or think he is a poor choice for POTUS, but this is the same level of hate that you see with groups that kill. Trying to impeach him with 2 weeks left is completely unhinged, and it's not going to stop, there is going to be a "ethic cleansing" of the political and bureaucratic systems of anyone who has or shows any sympathy or support of him.

Inciting an insurrection against the government where 5 people died with less than 2 weeks left to go and not make a precedent out of it? Bah, we just let it go. /s