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22 Jul 11: Explosion near Norwegian PM's office

Container

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Sorry!

I realize it now when I opened the link. Its pretty confusingly written- I like when musicians write about how sophisticated explosives are. And how no one but intelligence agencies use car bombs.

Thats second one might be my new stupidist quote winner.
 

benny88

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As thirsty as we all are for information on this, I'm glad he has not been given a soap box from which to spread his garbage. I won't be watching that video or even glancing at his "manifesto."

These acts were a publicity stunt of sorts. Many nutjobs in shootings like this seem to take suicide-by-cop or turn their weapons on themselves once cornered. This scum didn't, seemingly so he could get his message across. Don't let him; lock him away and put the effort and attention where it belongs: supporting the victims and families, and in an AAR to learn how to get there faster next time.
 

57Chevy

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benny88 said:
lock him away

I'm thinking Norway should, and may very well...
57Chevy said:
...reinstate the death penalty...

then make an example for the whole world to bear witness.

Maybe then, IMO, a real message will get across.
 
J

jollyjacktar

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This guy has proven himself to be dangerous to the public and society at large.  If there was any sense in Norway he should be swiftly examined for head space and timing, be found wanting and given the One flew over the Cuckoo's nest solution or From Hell's if you will and thrown into a padded cell for the remainder of his days.  That way he won't be given the opportunity to ever step on a soap box to spread his poison and thus no longer be a threat to society.
 

vonGarvin

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Pretty well most groups, political or otherwise, have youth camps like this.
 

The Bread Guy

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HavokFour said:
I have to ask. What exactly do they do at this camp?
Sounds like part convention, part "party school", part camping trip....
.... Debates, lectures, and regular summer camp stuff. Approximately 700 Labor Party enthusiasts between the ages of 14 and 25 descend on Utøya every year during summer break. The four-day event receives national media attention, and prominent Labor politicians make a point of addressing the group. (Former Prime Minister and party legend Gro Harlem Brundtland spoke on Friday and was among Breivik's primary targets, but she left the island before the killer arrived.) In addition to the lectures and debates, the campers play soccer, swim, share communal meals, and hold concerts. It's also widely known as a good place for singles to find that special, like-minded someone.

Unless they're responsible for running the meetings, campers are expected to bring their own tents and sleeping bags. There's a nominal fee to defray the cost of meals, but most attendees spend more money traveling to Utøya than at the camp itself.

The Labor Party isn't technically the organizer of the summer camp. Like other Norwegian political parties, Labor has a separate youth organization. It's known as the Arbeidernes Ungdomsfylking, or AUF, and it boasts around 10,000 members. A union confederation gave the island of Utøya to AUF in the early 1950s, and they immediately began using it for the summer gathering. (Outside groups can rent the island for meetings and events.)

Other Norwegian parties hold summer camps, but they're not nearly as well-established as AUF's event. Gatherings for the Progress and Conservative parties draw fewer people and typically last only two or three days. They're also irregular, whereas AUF's camp has been held annually for decades.

College Democrats at any U.S. university would probably be able to jump right into some of the political debates at the AUF summer camp. Norway's involvement in the war in Afghanistan has been somewhat divisive inside the party for years, for example, as have farm subsidies. Other debates include whether Norway should join the European Union ....
Source:  Slate, 25 Jul 11

.... One prominent casualty was Monica Bosei, 45, director of Norway's Maritime Museum. She was a staunch member of the Labour Party, sometimes tipped for cabinet office, and valued as a talent-spotter. She ran the summer camp for years and encouraged constituency offices across the country to send their best and brightest to Utoya.  Shaped by political workshops, encouraged by visiting political leaders, taught how to improve their rhetorical skills, the children of Utoya were being groomed for great things. Ms Bosei played a key role in the regeneration of the Left in Norway. Little wonder serving politicians were keen to send their offspring to the island .... Every section of the Labour Party, made up of mainstream Scandinavian social democrats, was represented at the summer school. Roald Linaker, a powerful regional Labour figure, lost his son Gunnar, aged 23. One friend described Gunnar as "witty, forthright, a real potential leader" ....
Source:  The Australian, 27 Jul 11

Also, here's the party youth wing's page on the event in Norwegian (Google Translate gives a decent broad-strokes read in English) - not much too, too controversial in the agenda, either (Google translation into English here).

And as for security on the island, and did anybody confront the shooter, this tidbit from Al Jazeera English:
.... Earl Sandbakken, the 19-year-old deputy chairman of the Labour party in the city of Baerum, took the ferry and watched as Bosei engaged Breivik in conversation. She had heard about the bombing in Oslo and was asking questions of Breivik, who was wearing a police uniform.

Breivik appeared stiff-backed and nervous. He said he could not say much, Sandbakken said.

Bosei was suspicious. When the ferry arrived at Utoya, she walked directly to the main house and spoke with Trond Berntsen, a former policeman who was working as a guard at the camp. She probably wanted to share her suspicions, Sandbakken said.

Breivik trailed Bosei. He saw what was happening, took out a gun and fatally shot both, his first victims on the island, Sandbakken said.

Jon Olsen, Bosei's partner, saw Breivik shoot Bosei. Bosei's 16-year-old daughter and her friend were also present. Olsen rushed Bosei's daughter to safety, but Breivik shot the friend.

Trond Berntsen, 51, was a ex-police officer who had worked in an immigration unit and, earlier, in the drugs section of the Upper Spokes sheriff's office.

He was also the stepbrother to Crown Princess Mette-Marit, whose mother had married Berntsen's father in 1994. Berntsen and his brother had quarrelled with Mett-Marit's mother over their father's inheritance after his death in 2008.

Berntsen reportedly had served as an unarmed guard at Utoya several times before, and the program distributed before the youth summer camp had said there would be police on the island.

Police confirmed that a former officer had been present on the island, but said he did not have a weapon or body armour.


After Bosei approached with her suspicions of Breivik, Berntsen, a former champion boxer, confronted the man.

According to accounts, Breivik quickly shot and killed Berntsen. At some point during the confrontation, Berntsen threw his 10-year-old son, who had accompanied him to the island, to safety, the newspaper Verdens Gang reported ....
 

canada94

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HavokFour said:
I have to ask. What exactly do they do at this camp?

Yes, I saw the story about Glenn Beck comparing it to the Hitler Youth. I've just never heard of political parties running camps like this until the Massacre. ???

I don't know where but I remember reading about the camp being a leadership and team building style camp, but I might be wrong...
 

Teeps74

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HavokFour said:
I have to ask. What exactly do they do at this camp?

Yes, I saw the story about Glenn Beck comparing it to the Hitler Youth. I've just never heard of political parties running camps like this until the Massacre. ???

Leave it to the sorry lying sack of garbage Beck to capitalize on tragedy in such a truly dishonest, disgusting and hypocritical way.

EDIT TO ADD:  What truly irks me, is how Glen Beck himself helped create several similar youth political groups under the 9/12 banner, as indicated in the attached article to which I responded. The hypocrisy of that man knows no bounds.

 

DBA

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Teeps74 said:
Leave it to the sorry lying sack of garbage Beck to capitalize on tragedy in such a truly dishonest, disgusting and hypocritical way.

EDIT TO ADD:  What truly irks me, is how Glen Beck himself helped create several similar youth political groups under the 9/12 banner, as indicated in the attached article to which I responded. The hypocrisy of that man knows no bounds.

An ignorant statement can be countered with knowledge. Your hate filled diatribe is a lot harder to counter. I would suggest your statement is worse overall in effect than his.
 

Journeyman

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DBA said:
I would suggest your statement is worse overall in effect than his.
I have to disagree because Beck likely has a much larger audience share than Teeps74
 

mariomike

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Infanteer said:
One teacher with a CCW can prevent a school/camp shooting from becoming a massacre.

More on that, if interested...
Topic: "When mass killers meet armed resistance.":
http://forums.milnet.ca/forums/threads/60111.0.html

7 pages.

Regarding CCW. Although such permits are extremely rare in Ontario, I do recall a case when a Toronto politician shot and wounded a suspect who was attempting to rob his bakery in the early 1990's. He had a "protection-of-life" permit. He received a lot of public support, and Metro Police declined to lay charges against him.
 

Teeps74

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DBA said:
An ignorant statement can be countered with knowledge. Your hate filled diatribe is a lot harder to counter. I would suggest your statement is worse overall in effect than his.

Say what? Did you read the article? Beck, who sponsors political youth camps, likened the camp where children were murdered to the Nazi Youth.

First off, yes, the Nazis got elected on a mildly leftist platform. But once they took power, they veered very hard right. And now we have the hatemonger Beck calling this collection of children a Nazi Youth camp because they belonged to a youth Labour organization? It is dispicable, dissgusting and totally dishonest for a man, who personally started the 9/12 Project for youth to claim that he knows nothing of this sort of thing...

I guess some people just feel the need to sympathize with Tea Baggers.
 

Brad Sallows

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>First off, yes, the Nazis got elected on a mildly leftist platform. But once they took power, they veered very hard right.

Grow a brain.  I'm hard right, and nowhere near being a Nazi.  Wherever the Nazis belong on the spectrum, it is not on the right (individualism) side.
 

Teeps74

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Brad Sallows said:
>First off, yes, the Nazis got elected on a mildly leftist platform. But once they took power, they veered very hard right.

Grow a brain.  I'm hard right, and nowhere near being a Nazi.  Wherever the Nazis belong on the spectrum, it is not on the right (individualism) side.

Anyone with half a brain understands that they were no where near the left end of the spectrum either. The "Final Solution" is not a leftist ideal.

Glen Beck is playing much closer to the Nazi playing field then the Norwegian Labour Party. Beck dropped off the edge of right wing some time ago.
 

Gimpy

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Edit:
Technoviking said:
How did this go "Godwin" on us?  It matters not what political stripe/spectrum that nazis, commies or even libertarians are.  All that matters is this: some ultra-nationalistic and xenophobic monster plotted and slaughtered dozens of innocents.

Go argue the philosophy of templating various political stripes elsewhere, please.

Technoviking
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I agree and am sorry to have played a part in the derail. Not the place, or time for this kind of discussion at all.
 

vonGarvin

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How did this go "Godwin" on us?  It matters not what political stripe/spectrum that nazis, commies or even libertarians are.  All that matters is this: some ultra-nationalistic and xenophobic monster plotted and slaughtered dozens of innocents.

Go argue the philosophy of templating various political stripes elsewhere, please.

Technoviking
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the 48th regulator

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Teeps74 said:
Anyone with half a brain understands that they were no where near the left end of the spectrum either. The "Final Solution" is not a leftist ideal.

Yet Stalin did clean out his AOR of a hell of a lot more people, than Hitler ever did.

dileas

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The Bread Guy

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the 48th regulator said:
Yet Stalin and many of his successors did clean out his AOR of a hell of a lot more people, than Hitler ever did.

dileas

tess
FTFY
 

Fishbone Jones

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Back on track people. We're talking about current events in Norway.

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edit = spelling
 
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