2022 CPC Leadership Discussion: Et tu Redeux

[Edward Campbell]

Thanks for the reference on Diefenbaker. At first glance it appears something other than a hagiography.

Many people, especially Conservatives, called it a hatchet job. Newman didn't like Dief nor did he like his politics but I think he captured the essential man: the renegade.

 

[Kirkhill]

Having had the chance to read Newman's 1989 introduction I am struck by the cultural continuity of the Prairies - or flyover country as the Americans might refer to it.

But there is also the Quebec - Socred - Real Caouette faction of note in there. The fact that Diefenbaker managed to appeal to Quebecers - but that faction is now owned by the BQ and the CAQ.

 

[Kirkhill]

Three of Diefenbaker's ideas that continue to resonate with me are:

The Bill of Rights
The Right to Property
Northern Development.

 

[TacticalTea]

Actually, @Edward Campbell

You might be suggesting that Diefenbaker and Douglas, as populists, presage Trump and Sanders. Two sides of the same anti-establishment coin.

I see Trudeau as much more of a populist than Sanders.

The latter's long form interview with Joe Rogan gives one great insight into his psyche and beliefs. I don't think Trudeau could keep an hour long interview interesting.

Or, perhaps as EC reframed it, Sanders is a ''real deal'' populist, unlike Junior.

 

[Furniture]

No, I saw the video, he definitely did. Why would you even ask that? I never insinuated it didn't happen.

The proper response to a single "liberal heckler" is to call out that heckler, or call out his boss, or call out his news station, and remind people that an independent (and ideally, civil) media and proper discourse is fundamental to a well functioning democracy.

You don't send an email blast out to the entire country (specially to his supporters) saying, "see, because of this one guy, we should get rid of all independent and publicly funded news, and you should all just let us, the wise and benevolent leaders of the CPC, tell you what's true."

Thats not what the message said though, he said they won't get "our messages" out to Canadians. Essentially, we don't trust the media to not spin our messaging to suit their personal biases.

David Aiken let the mask slip, which will damage media credibility... They are in damage control mode now because the ugly truth was out for all to see. The media pretends to be unbiased, and uses that pretense to influence people.

I don't think PP would be the greatest PM in history, but he also isn't the devil. The current government, aided by a sympathetic media, has done much to lay the foundations of distrust people are building on.

 

[Kirkhill]

I see Trudeau as much more of a populist than Sanders.

The latter's long form interview with Joe Rogan gives one great insight into his psyche and beliefs. I don't think Trudeau could keep an hour long interview interesting.

Or, perhaps as EC reframed it, Sanders is a ''real deal'' populist, unlike Junior.

You don't have to be a populist to be a demagogue. Demagogues, fundamentally, are actors - rhetoricians. They don't need to be bright.

 

[Halifax Tar]

1. This was the term PP himself used in the video, though not in the letter.

2. I'm not sure your point here? Are you saying that because PP will be under attack from the media the whole time, he has to try and go around the media? What about the media that is supportive of him? National Post, True North, Western Standard, Rebel News... Calgary Herald?

1. No, he asked a rhetorical question. At least in the tweet.

2. No PP is always going to be on defensive with media, if it wasn't it's now obvious. And he can use this situation to show reinforce the thought that the media is biased. Well done Akin.

Interesting how Chrystia Freeland being verbally attacked should suck it up and not be a snowflake, when it's PP he needs protected and funded to fight back against it.

So much for a move towards the centre post campaign win; here's hoping for a LPC party back to the centre (under a new leader).

Freeland was heckled by a private citizen, not the same.

That private citizen as little ability to influence the country. Akin and the media, thats a completely different story.

Does he need to be protected ? No more than any other party leader.

Why is it an attack with Freeland but heckled with PP ?

 

[Brad Sallows]

Poilievre was smart to get out in front, and had nothing to lose (he's going to get slimed regardless). By laying down this marker, he forces his critics who have an ethical spine to be constructive if they don't want to end up in the bin with the other critics, who will get the "Aha! Told you so!" treatment.

 

[Lumber]

Poilievre was smart to get out in front, and had nothing to lose (he's going to get slimed regardless). By laying down this marker, he forces his critics who have an ethical spine to be constructive if they don't want to end up in the bin with the other critics, who will get the "Aha! Told you so!" treatment.

Call me cynical, but by sowing distrust at the media in general, then even if the "corrupt liberal media" levels honest and verifiable criticisms at PP, his supporters won't believe it, and cry foul at the bias.

 

[Lumber]

Perhaps he should skip the letters and go straight to publicly pontificating with a wide brush as PM about how the media on the whole is behaving deplorably and against Canadian values…

Got any specific example, or can you even elaborate generally, on how the media is behaving against Canadian values? Not trying to s**t post here; I'm genuinely curious what they've done to receive such derision.

 

[IKnowNothing]

Call me cynical, but by sowing distrust at the media in general, then even if the "corrupt liberal media" levels honest and verifiable criticisms at PP, his supporters won't believe it, and cry foul at the bias.

Distrust in the media in general, in this case specifically in a well respected, fair handed yet undoubtedly Conservative media personality. He (Akin) acted terribly in this case, but I have no doubt that the point he was trying to raise would be valid.

What he (PP) did was throw a warning broadside at Sun Media, Post Media, and all mainstream conservative outlets and personalities, that Conservative credentials or lack of left wing bias be damned, if you're not with me you're out.

 

[QV]

Plenty of examples of media acting deliberately dishonest over the past 7 years. Many people can see it. PP is popular because he takes them head on. The media fears a PP government will cut funding so they will be relentless.

 

[Furniture]

Here is a clip of the interaction posted by CTV.

Who appears to be the problem here? Who is undermining media credibility?

The best part is when Mr. Aikin defends his behaviour by saying he did the same thing to Minister Baird... Essentially admitting on camera he treats CPC members differently than others.

Finally, when seen in context the " Liberal Heckler" comment was an attempt at humour to defuse the situation.

 

[Brad Sallows]

It's likely that supporters will overreach with claims of bias.

There's a fix for that: form a national professional media association, adopt a code of ethics, grant a credential, and revoke it from everyone who breaks the code. The credential is a marker of trustworthiness, and out of the hands of partisan media critics.

 

[QV]

Here is a clip of the interaction posted by CTV.

Who appears to be the problem here? Who is undermining media credibility?

The best part is when Mr. Aikin defends his behaviour by saying he did the same thing to Minister Baird... Essentially admitting on camera he treats CPC members differently than others.

Finally, when seen in context the " Liberal Heckler" comment was an attempt at humour to defuse the situation.

Akin is clearly triggered by a PP leadership win.

 

[ModlrMike]

That was highly unprofessional of Mr Aikin. When, as a reporter, you become the story, you have failed.

 

[Good2Golf]

Got any specific example, or can you even elaborate generally, on how the media is behaving against Canadian values? Not trying to s**t post here; I'm genuinely curious what they've done to receive such derision.

It was a hybrid post and the smilie included a nuance that went beyond just PP and media specifically, so lets look at two elements:
1) PP gets muckraked/trolled by Aiken, with pretty good clarity as noted in @QV’s post above, and can only explain that he did the same to a previous Govt’s Minister, but uses no example of doing same to a current/Liberal Minister, so PP jousts back with a Liberal Heckler joke…best response? Perhaps not in that it could be taken out of the context of the immediate exchange, but not a wonton hatred of all media as some have conflated; and
2) other ‘PM-grade’ individuals appeared not to have any issues broadbrushing, and while we’re all mindful that two wrongs do make a right (except in arithmetic), some folks seem to be selective in how huffy they get against some (PP), but make apologies and communicate understanding when others are much more divisive and dole out underserved and inciteful words…

 

[Blackadder1916]

David Akin's twitter

https://twitter.com/x/status/1569875919250096129

What I took as the essence of his apology cum explanation; "We all want politicians to answer questions — but there are better ways of making that point."

I guess the rub being this was the second presser in a row that Mr. Poilievre did not take questions. Undoubtedly frustrating for a reporter but what is the line? Do you ask questions regardless? Do you wait until the subject finishes his canned presentation (like the previous day when he finished and left without comment before questions could be asked)? Or do you immediately press the question - a valid one considering the subject using the topic as part of his leadership platform - and in the ensuing exchange get the subject to say he will take questions after his presentation? I haven't seen the end of the presser (PP's presentation became irrelevant as soon as he engaged with Akin), so I don't know if he kept his word and took questions. My opinion is that if a politician is going to stand in front of reporters, he has to expect questions. If he's not going to answer questions, then he should just ignore them (the reporters, as well as the questions).

 

[Kat Stevens]

Call me cynical, but by sowing distrust at the media in general, then even if the "corrupt liberal media" levels honest and verifiable criticisms at PP, his supporters won't believe it, and cry foul at the bias.

Gee, I wonder how JT would feel if that were ever to happen to him?

 

[Remius]

More on some of the fallout for Alain Rayes after leaving the CPC.

Text message campaign targets Quebec MP Alain Rayes, who left Conservative party

A member of Parliament who quit the Conservative caucus says Pierre Poilievre's office sent a text message to party members in his Quebec riding asking them to encourage him to resign.

www.ctvnews.ca