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How about no money for sex changes unless the member has been in combat?
Colin P said:How about no money for sex changes unless the member has been in combat?
Strike said:Then you're discriminating within the transgendered community itself, since very few get the surgery done.
EpicBeardedMan said:Are there statistics that show this? Would be interesting to see how many get it done and also how many get the surgery done during their initial 3-4 year contract in the armed forces and then leave after completion of both contract and surgery, essentially spending their entire contract at the MIR while getting paid a salary.
Halifax Tar said:Who defines what combat is ? What about sailors ? We haven't heard an angry shot since Korea...
I have no issue with anyone going through this. I cant imagine how traumatic it must be to be in the wrong gendered body. These people have my full sympathies and support.
My issues with the military aspect is that we have a job to do. As we continue to cater to more and more issues that keep people from being fit and fully deployable for extended periods the knock on effect is that we continue to ask more of a shrinking group of fit and deployable group of people, these people will burn out.
We deepened on everyone in our service to pull their weight; if you can not then others must carry your load. Perhaps if one is going through this situation the military isn't for them until such time that they have achieved their desired gender scenario and they are considered OFP. For those already in the CAF, well we have a medical system and it should be utilized.
Colin P said:We have definitions already, messy as they are, but really this is more to the US question where it appears some people join up purely to get the system to pay for the operations. Sex change operations are not critical to the core task and are not related to the duties. If someone has served for X period of time, seen combat or has done something out of the ordinary (rescuing people , etc) then they can qualify. That way you avoid the people that want to use the system and don't punish the few who served honourable and want the change.
Strike said:Don't have that info, but I do believe that the first person to get transition surgery is still serving in the RCAF, and that was almost 20 years ago if I recall.
RCPalmer said:As I understand it, U.S. military pers incur a minimum of an 8 year service obligation (including Reserve, Guard and IRR time). It seems like a significant obligation to undertake if you are not actually willing to serve.
Retention standards and policies applied to active duty members in the U.S. military who identify as transgender have recently been in evolution. The Secretary of Defense recently released a new directive allowing transgender members to serve openly with the option to transition gender while in active duty, abrogating the old policy disqualifying transgender members from continued service. There is a reasonable expectation that some may pursue medical and surgical options toward gender transition. The clinical pathway for gender transition relies heavily on Mental Health and Endocrinology services. This article highlights the medical aspects of gender transition and how they can affect readiness and the delivery of military health care.
3.5. INITIAL ENTRY TRAINING AND CONSIDERATIONS ASSOCIATED WITH THE FIRST TERM OF SERVICE.
a. A blanket prohibition on gender transition during a Service member’s first term of service is not permissible. However, the Department recognizes that the All-Volunteer Force readiness model is largely based on those newly accessed into the military being ready and available for multiple training and deployment cycles during their first term of service. This readiness model may be taken into consideration by a commander in evaluating a request for medical care or treatment or an ETP associated with gender transition during a Service member’s first term of service. Any other facts and circumstances related to an individual Service member that impact that model will be considered by the commander as set forth in this issuance and implementing Military Department and Service regulations, policies, and guidance.
b. The following policies and procedures apply to Service members during the first term of service and will be applied to Service members with a diagnosis indicating that gender transition is medically necessary in the same manner, and to the same extent, as to Service members with other medical conditions that have a comparable impact on the member’s ability to serve:
(1) A Service member is subject to separation in an entry-level status during the period of initial training (defined as 180 days per DoDI 1332.14) based on a medical condition that impairs the Service member’s ability to complete such training.
(2) An individual participant is subject to separation from the Reserve Officers’ Training Corps in accordance with DoDI 1215.08, or from a Service Academy in accordance with DoDI 1322.22, based on a medical condition that impairs the individual’s ability to complete such training or to access into the Armed Forces, under the same terms and conditions applicable to participants in comparable circumstances not related to transgender persons or gender transition. As with all cadets or midshipmen who experience a medical condition while in the Reserve Officers’ Training Corps Program or at a Service Academy, each situation is unique and will be evaluated based on its individual circumstances; however, the individual will be required to meet medical accession standards as a prerequisite to graduation and appointment in the Armed Forces.
(3) A Service member is subject to administrative separation for a fraudulent or erroneous enlistment or induction when warranted and in accordance with DoDI 1332.14, based on any deliberate material misrepresentation, omission, or concealment of a fact, including a medical condition, that if known at the time of enlistment, induction, or entry into a period of military service, might have resulted in rejection.
(4) If a Service member requests non-urgent medical treatment or an ETP associated with gender transition during the first term of service, including during periods of initial entry training in excess of 180 days, the commander may give the factors set forth in Paragraph 3.5.a significant weight in considering and balancing the individual need associated with the request and the needs of the command, in determining when such treatment, or whether such ETP may commence in accordance with Paragraph 3.2.d.
Blackadder1916 said:And what makes you think that a transgender individual is not willing to serve or that even one whose (possibly) primary motive to enlist is access to health care is any different from many who join for a variety of reasons, not all some patriot sense of service before all else. If you made that the only acceptable singular motive, then when do you start refusing entry to those who join for education, adventure, personal and family health care coverage, good job, travel, experience to get an airline job, want to shoot guns, . . . ?
As I read through this thread I started wondering how the US military health system was dealing with the glut (sarcasm) of transgendered soldiers, sailors, airmen and Marines (and Coasties) making a beeline for the clinic demanding SRS. So far there has been little to none, actual, hard and fast data posted on this forum about this change in US military personnel policy, either the change to allow or the more recent reversion statements by the current president.
RCPalmer said:That is exactly my point. I was responding to the comments from several posters implying that large numbers of people would join the U.S. military to fund their assignment surgery, spending their entire (short) careers in the U.S. military as MIR commandos. In the context of an 8 year service obligation, I don't see that being a particularly realistic prospect. . . .
Colin P said:. . . it appears some people join up purely to get the system to pay for the operations. Sex change operations are not critical to the core task and are not related to the duties. If someone has served for X period of time, seen combat or has done something out of the ordinary (rescuing people , etc) then they can qualify. That way you avoid the people that want to use the system and don't punish the few who served honourable and want the change.