09/10 Budget Impact on PRes - Unit stand-downs, Class B Freeze, and so on!

[McG]

Ahhhh. The good old Centre of the Universe. Do as I say, not as I do. The Toronto mafia strikes again :

Why are BMQ & PLQ candidates from my regiment punted off their respective courses but courses running out of Toronto still going?

What CBG are you in?  There seems to be a whole lot in the "centre of the universe buggered us again" crowd, but where is the proof to back this?

It looks like 32 CBG dicided to keep going on its already started career courses.  Other brigades (apparently 31 & 33 CBG) have axed courses that are already running to save money.  But that information is not even a complete snapshot of the situation.  As has already come out in this thread, different brigades are also funding different amounts of training days for the units (some appear to be reducing the number of evenings per month, some may be going into stand-downs, etc).

Every level of the CoC is making decisions about what to cut.  Looking at what one other unit has, and then blaming those villains in LFCA is just whinny when done without any consideration for the different trade-offs that each CBG HQ decided to make, and then again with respect to the decisions made by each unit's CO. 

 

[tango22a]

I have only one question: Where in h*ll are the far thinking planners that should have foreseen that we were going to be UNDERFUNDED again? You would think after all these years that it is a KNOWN problem. Given adequate funding some cuts would still have to be made, but not to this extent.

Gutting the PRes budget towards the end of the fiscal year is a foregone conclusion....But half a day a month training is ridiculous, useless and demeaning to the people who have sacrificed their time to the PRes for countless years.

You CAN train on your own, but what happens if you get hurt somehow or other and are unable to work at your civvy job? You get left to face financial ruin with the kind words of "the training was NOT sponsored by the CF so you're on your own hook". And all you out there KNOW that this is the line that WOULD be taken.

Sometimes I wish I was back in, but I can honestly tell you that I would certainly be tired of being "screwed, stewed and tattooed" like this every d**n year. All I can say is you are very lucky to have the kind of proud citizen-soldiers that are willing to put up with this horse- puckey year after year after year...


tango22a

You cannot continue to rob Peter to pay Paul because eventually Peter is going to say "F**k this noise, I'm outta here!!" And I really can't blame him. This may be the straw that finally  breaks the camel's (PRes) back.


Edited for content and clarity.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Ahhhh. The good old Centre of the Universe. Do as I say, not as I do. The Toronto mafia strikes again

What CBG are you in?  There seems to be a whole lot in the "centre of the universe buggered us again" crowd, but where is the proof to back this?

It looks like 32 CBG dicided to keep going on its already started career courses.  Other brigades (apparently 31 & 33 CBG) have axed courses that are already running to save money.  But that information is not even a complete snapshot of the situation.  As has already come out in this thread, different brigades are also funding different amounts of training days for the units (some appear to be reducing the number of evenings per month, some may be going into stand-downs, etc).

Every level of the CoC is making decisions about what to cut.  Looking at what one other unit has, and then blaming those villains in LFCA is just whinny when done without any consideration for the different trade-offs that each CBG HQ decided to make, and then again with respect to the decisions made by each unit's CO.

People get too wrapped up in tongue in cheek comments around here. The 'Toronto Mafia' has been the unofficial, never proven, whipping boy in LFCA for years. When people don't have enough information to make informed decisions, the scarecrow is dragged out to accept the blame. Get over it and get on with it. Anyone that takes that comment seriously needs their head examined.

 

[Larkvall]

I have only one question: Where in h*ll are the far thinking planners that should have foreseen that we were going to be UNDERFUNDED again? You would think after all these years that it is a KNOWN problem. Given adequate funding some cuts would still have to be made, but not to this extent.

Well according to this threadhttp://forums.milnet.ca/forums/threads/86059.0 DND lost 300 million last year due to foot dragging.

It seems if the powers are too cautious spending the money then there is danger off losing the money and if they are too aggressive spending the money then there is a danger of a funding shortfall.

 

[dapaterson]

DND's budget was never reduced by $300M in unexpended funds.  DND was allocated $300M it was unable to legally spend or carry forward, so those funds, at the end of the fiscal year, reverted to the Consolidated Revenue Fund and served to reduce the overall federal debt.  (This FY, any similar lapse would reduce the deficit).

Today, people have expanded their appetites and wanted more money than was available and refused to believe that belt-tightening (or at least no further belt loosening) was in order - and despite clear messages that funds would be tight throughout the department continued with grandiose plans - and is now doing things that, on reflection, make one ask "Why were we going the other way in the first place?"

The corrections are severe.  Senior leaders should be held accountable for not doing their jobs.

But there is no grand conspiracy by the Government of Canada, DND or the Army.  There are two fine quotes that summarize the current situation:

"Never ascribe to malice that which is adequately explained by incompetence."

and

"We have met the enemy, and he is us."

 

[tango22a]

Dapaterson:

Now this begs the question: Will the responsible people take responsibility for their actions?? In today's world of massive CYA (translation anybody??) I sincerely doubt it!

Unfortunately there isn't a place in the CoC or a desk in NDHQ with a sign: "The Buck Stops Here", but there sure is one over in the Treasury and the buck sure does stop there! Massive underfunding sucks!!

Sorry, but for this massive SNAFU somebody needs to be hung out to dry even if only to "encourager les autres".


tango22a


Editted for content and clarity.

 

[Larkvall]

DND's budget was never reduced by $300M in unexpended funds.  DND was allocated $300M it was unable to legally spend or carry forward, so those funds, at the end of the fiscal year, reverted to the Consolidated Revenue Fund and served to reduce the overall federal debt.  (This FY, any similar lapse would reduce the deficit).

Sorry for the confusion. I was just trying to demonstrate how hard it must be to do this type of budgeting and show what happens when planners are too conservative. I didn't mean to infer that DND lost 300 million from this current fiscal year.

 

[tango22a]

MCG and Dapaterson and others:

Have been informed that I am right out of 'er and as I am getting tired of wading through the muck.....I'm outta this thread.


Cheers,


tango22a

P.S.: You guys keep on toeing the corporate line and soon all will soon be "sweetness and light".

 

[Michael OLeary]

I have only one question: Where in h*ll are the far thinking planners that should have foreseen that we were going to be UNDERFUNDED again? You would think after all these years that it is a KNOWN problem. Given adequate funding some cuts would still have to be made, but not to this extent.

Some of the big budget projects that need to be paid for were put in place by those very "far thinking planners" who were told years ago that the Canadian mission in Afghanistan would draw down in 2009.

But the Government changed its mind (link):

The Conservative motion, which was revised after consultation with the Liberals, called for the mission to be renewed beyond 2009 but with a focus on reconstruction and training of Afghan troops and a firm pullout date that calls for Canadian troops to leave Afghanistan by December 2011.

There should have been plenty of funds of those projects this year - unfortunately, in all the "happy happy joy joy" over continuing the fight, the big picture of conflicting funding priorities (as a result of forward planning based on the decisions that had already been made) got missed by everyone.

 

[dapaterson]

There should have been plenty of funds of those projects this year - unfortunately, in all the "happy happy joy joy" over continuing the fight, the big picture of conflicting funding priorities (as a result of forward planning based on the decisions that had already been made) got missed by everyone.

Not missed so much as obstinately ignored.  "We're the Army.  We're in Afghanistan.  We get everything we want."  Clear indications were provided, yet at the Strategic level (if there is such a thing) the Army willfully deluded itself into thinking that the Department's known resource challenges would not impact the Army.

Prudent planning went out the window.  And now, the deluge...


 

 

[kratz]

[quote author=dapaterson]
Not missed so much as obstinately ignored. "We're the Army.  We're in Afghanistan.  We get everything we want."   Clear indications were provided, yet at the Strategic level (if there is such a thing) the Army willfully deluded itself into thinking that the Department's known resource challenges would not impact the Army.

Prudent planning went out the window.  And now, the deluge... [/quote]

Thank you.

 

[sandyson]

This situation has been around since I was a trooper in a Sherman hatch.  I don't think DND has ever been able to budget.  Many years they closed down Militia units in January, and in others they begged  for soldiers to train every weekend in late Feb and Mar to burn up a surplus.  The cost in lost soldiers, recruiting replacements, and training them far exceeded the so called savings.
I am convinced that the only way to stop Class A man days from being used as a slush fund, is to use September contracts.  The reservist signs to train for (say) 80% of the training calendar, and the Army guarantees the pay.  If DND cannot budget properly after that: too bad--pay up anyway.
Soldiers should not pay the price for bad DND budgeting, only their own.

 

[kratz]

A shift in concept is needed. daptaperson has touched on the idea. Nobody has asked why the ARAF, or NavRes is not responding with the a similar Knee jerk reaction?

 

[BlueJingo]

My unit hasn't had many problems this year. We even are working class A days all through the Xmas break.

I guess our members who run our budget are doing a stand up job.

I see you are from out "west"...since when does anybody give a crap about Manitoba.... 

 

[Nfld Sapper]

I see you are from out "west"...since when does anybody give a crap about Manitoba.... 

No need of that......... and yes I noticed your smiley..........


MILNET.CA MENTOR

 

[Nfld Sapper]

My unit hasn't had many problems this year. We even are working class A days all through the Xmas break.

I guess our members who run our budget are doing a stand up job.

Wait for it, its not your unit that will cut the days but your higher HQ that will.....

 

[unclefrank1961]

Why don't the Class B people that are getting their walking papers all just do a CT?  Ottawa Citizen says that any budget cuts to CF will not effect Reg F.

 

[BlueJingo]

And Yes I was kidding (thanks NFLD Sapper)

Budget seems to be getting cut everywhere... some ppl at the Recruiting Centre (the staff not the applicants) are worried about their Class B's....

But they are told to wait out for further info... needles and pins.

 

[dapaterson]

Why don't the Class B people that are getting their walking papers all just do a CT?  Ottawa Citizen says that any budget cuts to CF will not effect Reg F.

The majority of the Army Reserve is combat arms.  Combat arms trades are all closed right now in the Reg F...

 

[unclefrank1961]

No. Combat arms are closed to civilian applicants. No trades are closed to CT's.  Some trades (Artillery for one) are even offering Incntives for qualified PRes pers to make the switch.