Sikh & India (Alleged) Shenanigans in Canada (split fm Non-Muslim terr thread)

[brihard]

A foreign, possibly government sponsored, kill team assassinating a Canadian citizen on Canadian soil. Crazy.

No kidding. As best as I can read and interpret the laws on this stuff, that likely makes this a national security investigation, over and above being a murder.

The fact that we’re seeing this allegation attributed to security intelligence sources is highly unusual in its own right.

 

[JLB50]

Yup, it’s one politician and one party after another selling out our country. And speaking of foreign aid, the last I looked, we are still giving it to both India and…wait for it…China. Mind you our government says it’s being used in conjunction with international aid projects such as literacy programs, environmental projects, asserting the advancement of women in their respective societies, etc. All of which means India can devote more money to its space program and China can spend more on influencing events here in Canada as well as building more warships to take over Taiwan and the rest of the South China Sea. And whether it’s unilateral or bilateral trade deals you can rest assured that the polititicams of those two countries are jumping up and down with glee as Canada wants to seem like a good guy at the U.N.

 

[gryphonv]

Interesting that this comes out at a time when our fancy socks PM and his party are suffering from abysmally-low popularity ratings and has been dragging his feet on doing anything about Chinese interference in Canadian affairs. I wonder how those Canadians of south Asian origin will react.

Meanwhile I read today in one newspaper or other (I’m a news junkie) that the federal government was informed 25 years ago by security officials of a significant effort by China to spy on Canada and Canadians, and to affect greater control over our institutions and economy, yada, yada, yada. 25 years ago would, I believe, take us back to the Chretien years. Hmmmm.

While the timing is interesting, if the wheels were in motion and the information was going to come out by his mouth or someone else. He had no choice but to get ahead of the news.

To me, it is a much more serious accusation than those with China. Not trying to lessen our issues with China, but killing of a citizen on their countries soil by foreign agents is near the top of the worst crimes a country can do to another.


The real wild card right now is how will India react. Will our allies do anything?

I do have a little bit of tin foil hat thinking right now, that makes me wonder if something was deliberately done to the Canadian Jet that was suppose to transport the PM and his delegation back to Canada, or at the very least, the internal threat rating was raised and questions about its security came into effect. Sure we could of been fed that there was a part to break down unexpectantly, but maybe the security of the jet was a too big of question, they had to send an alternate out before the security of the jet could be confirmed. This whole scenario is unlikely but stranger things have happened.

 

[The Bread Guy]

Maybe the people allegedly involved in the plot were here checking out cathedrals?

 

[dapaterson]

I do have a little bit of tin foil hat thinking right now, that makes me wonder if something was deliberately done to the Canadian Jet that was suppose to transport the PM and his delegation back to Canada, or at the very least, the internal threat rating was raised and questions about its security came into effect. Sure we could of been fed that there was a part to break down unexpectantly, but maybe the security of the jet was a too big of question, they had to send an alternate out before the security of the jet could be confirmed. This whole scenario is unlikely but stranger things have happened.

Given the age of the aircraft and the minimal supply chain for that aircraft type, I suspect Occam's razor applies - it's just a crappy, run down aircraft that's prone to failure.

 

[gryphonv]

Given the age of the aircraft and the minimal supply chain for that aircraft type, I suspect Occam's razor applies - it's just a crappy, run down aircraft that's prone to failure.

Oh I agree.

But we are talking about a foreign agent killing Canadian citizens on Canadian soil, If we said that was happening a week before this news broke, it would be just as unbelievable.

 

[dapaterson]

But we are talking about a foreign agent killing Canadian citizens on Canadian soil, If we said that was happening a week before this news broke, it would be just as unbelievable.

Canadians are wilfully blind to the world around them. Great powers have traditionally fought through proxies in foreign countries. Canada's self made myths of exceptionalism notwithstanding, the world does intrude and attack through and in Canada.

See: Church fires in Quebec destroying baptismal records to provide Russians with backgrounds; Air India flight 182; the Montreal experiments at the Allan Memorial Institute; Mossad and Hezbollah agents travelling on Canadian passports...

 

[gryphonv]

Canadians are wilfully blind to the world around them. Great powers have traditionally fought through proxies in foreign countries. Canada's self made myths of exceptionalism notwithstanding, the world does intrude and attack through and in Canada.

See: Church fires in Quebec destroying baptismal records to provide Russians with backgrounds; Air India flight 182; the Montreal experiments at the Allan Memorial Institute; Mossad and Hezbollah agents travelling on Canadian passports...

Yeah, I've always been of the mindset, as a citizen we shouldn't know everything that is going on. Some will disagree with that, but sometimes knowledge can do more damage to the public than ignorance will.

Case in point, the Snowden leaks. Which probably directly and indirectly caused the deaths of countless people who otherwise would be alive today.

But we also have people who overestimate how protected we are, I feel Canada as a whole is less respected by other nations today than it was 10-20 years ago. But that is another tangent that don't apply to this thread.

I truly don't believe there was anything nefarious done to the Canadian Jet, but there is a part of me that wouldn't be shocked if it came out that it was .

 

[The Bread Guy]

Since Sikh shenanigans & Indian response to said shenanigans is a pretty specific sub-set of non-Muslim extremism, and fuel for all sorts of detailed discussion (ideological & political), broke this out into the Canadian Politics zone.

Please carry on ...

Milnet.ca Staff

 

[RangerRay]

The Indian government has been after the Canadian government to get a grip on Khalistani extremists for years. Even after all the terror plots and assassinations originating Canada came to light, our response seemed to be to shrug off India’s concerns. If India did assassinate this guy in Surrey, I can kind of understand why they did in light of our inaction. Doesn’t make it right or excuse it though.

It does strike me as odd that Trudeau is suddenly concerned about Indian shenanigans in our country why still trying to hand-wave away Beijing’s shenanigans. I sure hope he’s not torching our already strained relationship with India for domestic political reasons, and that there is solid evidence that this was an Indian government hit.

 

[OldSolduer]

This has to be a highly calculated move.

I

This is Trudeau we are speaking of. The same one who admires the Chinese.

But you are probably right.

 

[OldSolduer]

The Indian government has been after the Canadian government to get a grip on Khalistani extremists for years. Even after all the terror plots and assassinations originating Canada came to light, our response seemed to be to shrug off India’s concerns. If India did assassinate this guy in Surrey, I can kind of understand why they did in light of our inaction. Doesn’t make it right or excuse it though.

It does strike me as odd that Trudeau is suddenly concerned about Indian shenanigans in our country why still trying to hand-wave away Beijing’s shenanigans. I sure hope he’s not torching our already strained relationship with India for domestic political reasons, and that there is solid evidence that this was an Indian government hit.

Cause India isn't lining his and his Eco terrorist minister's pockets

 

[Eaglelord17]

The Indian government has been after the Canadian government to get a grip on Khalistani extremists for years. Even after all the terror plots and assassinations originating Canada came to light, our response seemed to be to shrug off India’s concerns. If India did assassinate this guy in Surrey, I can kind of understand why they did in light of our inaction. Doesn’t make it right or excuse it though.

It does strike me as odd that Trudeau is suddenly concerned about Indian shenanigans in our country why still trying to hand-wave away Beijing’s shenanigans. I sure hope he’s not torching our already strained relationship with India for domestic political reasons, and that there is solid evidence that this was an Indian government hit.

Considering how the indian government is becoming more extremist themselves it isn’t a stretch for them to have done a mossad style kill team.

I like how we continue to stretigically weaken ourselves and force ourselves to become more reliant on them though. 15 years ago we allowed them to buy a steel plant in country. That company then took the trade secrets we had to india and guess who now is a leader in making armour plate. On top of that we are only 4 years away from losing the capability to produce armour plate in north america because of carbon tax and the soon loss of making steel from scratch.

But no need to worry about relying on China and India for steel, clearly they are our friends even though both are somewhat committing genocide at the moment.

 

[Kirkhill]

Jagmeet's price for a 2025 election? Who does he represent?

 

[Kirkhill]

Canadians are wilfully blind to the world around them. Great powers have traditionally fought through proxies in foreign countries. Canada's self made myths of exceptionalism notwithstanding, the world does intrude and attack through and in Canada.

See: Church fires in Quebec destroying baptismal records to provide Russians with backgrounds; Air India flight 182; the Montreal experiments at the Allan Memorial Institute; Mossad and Hezbollah agents travelling on Canadian passports...

The Fenian struggles had an international dimension to them. As you say, we are willfully blind, perhaps even willfully blinded.

 

[Kirkhill]

Yeah, I've always been of the mindset, as a citizen we shouldn't know everything that is going on. Some will disagree with that, but sometimes knowledge can do more damage to the public than ignorance will.

Case in point, the Snowden leaks. Which probably directly and indirectly caused the deaths of countless people who otherwise would be alive today.

But we also have people who overestimate how protected we are, I feel Canada as a whole is less respected by other nations today than it was 10-20 years ago. But that is another tangent that don't apply to this thread.

I truly don't believe there was anything nefarious done to the Canadian Jet, but there is a part of me that wouldn't be shocked if it came out that it was .

I can't disagree more. That way leads to censorship and restrictions.

 

[gryphonv]

I can't disagree more. That way leads to censorship and restrictions.

So do you think regardless the costs, we should be informed of everything our government is doing? Every communication they have with other nations, etc?

Do you feel Top secret's documents should be available for public disseminations at all times?

I truly believe, there is some stuff on a need to know basis, and we don't need to know everything.

 

[Good2Golf]

Jagmeet's price for a 2025 election? Who does he represent?

In the eyes of India, Singh has consistently held a position in support of Khalistani independence in the Punjab. That bought Singh a ban* against entering India. First western federal political leader to have been so banned.

*edit to add ref:

Canada’s ‘kingmaker’ was denied visa in 2013 - Times of India

Rest of World News: JALANDHAR: If the appointment of four Sikh ministers in the Canadian federal government in 2015 was the biggest indicator of the rise of the Sikh fact.

m.timesofindia.com

 

[Kirkhill]

Tasha Kheiriddin: Trudeau, China have most to gain from India tensions​

Accusations will give oxygen to the Khalistani movement, too
Author of the article:
Tasha Kheiriddin
Published Sep 19, 2023 • Last updated 53 minutes ago • 3 minute read
The House of Commons is back — and with it, a crisis no one saw coming. On Monday, Prime Minister Justin Trudeau announced that “Over the past number of weeks, Canadian security agencies have been actively pursuing credible allegations of a potential link between agents of the government of India and the killing of a Canadian citizen, Hardeep Singh Nijjar.” Trudeau then intoned, “Any involvement of a foreign government in the killing of a Canadian citizen on Canadian soil is an unacceptable violation of our sovereignty.”

Nijjar was president of a Vancouver-area Sikh temple and a member of Sikhs of Justice, a group advocating for the secession of India’s Punjab region into a state that would be known as Khalistan. Wanted by the Indian government as a “fugitive terrorist,” he was shot and killed at the temple in June. At the time, he was organizing a non-binding referendum on Sikh independence and had been informed by CSIS that there had been threats against his life.

Let’s be clear: it is never acceptable for a government to assassinate someone on its own soil or anywhere else. If India did order this murder, it should face consequences. Nonetheless, the timing and delivery of these revelations are highly suspect.

For over a year now, Trudeau has been on the defensive about foreign interference in Canadian elections by the Chinese Communist Party (CCP). In response, he criticized leaked intelligence documents for containing “inaccuracies” and appointed a special rapporteur who also claimed the “documents don’t tell the full story.” It was also revealed that the CCP was operating secret police stations on Canadian soil to remove alleged “criminals” (a.k.a. dissidents) to China where they would face imprisonment and possibly the death penalty. At the time, Trudeau didn’t call out Beijing: he simply said the issue “concerns us enormously” and the RCMP would deal with it.

So why provoke a full-blown crisis with India over similar intelligence information, and why now? To answer this question, let’s look at who wins — and who loses.

The biggest winner is the prime minister. After a summer of opinion poll hell, with his party trailing the Conservatives by as much as 14 points, Trudeau once again looks and sounds like a leader. He took control of the agenda on the first day back in Parliament, when the opposition was planning to scream about housing and inflation. Instead, Conservative leader Pierre Poilievre could do nothing but agree (though he took a more skeptical line the next day) and NDP leader Jagmeet Singh hasn’t had a better week in months. Between Trudeau defending the Sikh community and spanking grocery CEOs, Singh has no reason to bring the government down, which is music to the prime minister’s ears.

The second big winner is China. Our public inquiry into foreign interference finally kicked off — and suddenly, they’re not the focus anymore. There are other bad states doing bad things.

The crisis also torpedoes Canada’s Indo-Pacific Strategy, unveiled in November 2022, which criticized Chinese policies and sought to build stronger ties with India.

Now, that hope is dead, and with it, a small part of India’s plan to counter China’s influence in the Indo-Pacific. Even more importantly, the crisis has sent shock waves around the world. Just after it hosted a highly successful G-20 summit, India’s reputation as a stable and reliable democratic partner has taken a hit, to the benefit of its chief geopolitical rival.

The third winners are Khalistani separatists. They are now seen to have the prime minister of a G7 country as an ally. According to a prominent Indo-Canadian journalist I spoke with on background yesterday, they will be even further emboldened to bring their fight for a separate Punjabi state to Canada — and along with it, the violence that has plagued that movement in India for decades. The crisis also further drives a wedge between Hindu and Sikh members of the Indian diaspora in Canada, weakening their strength as a community and cementing political divisions.

So yes, Canada needs to know what happened in that parking lot in Surrey, and whoever orchestrated it must pay the price. But you’ve got to hand it to the Prime Minister’s Office. With one announcement, they’ve changed the channel, raised Lazarus from the dead and provoked an international incident. Whoever thought the Liberals were out of gas was sadly mistaken.

Tasha Kheiriddin: Trudeau, China have most to gain from India tensions

Accusations will give oxygen to the Khalistani movement, too

nationalpost.com

What she said.

 

[Kirkhill]

So do you think regardless the costs, we should be informed of everything our government is doing? Every communication they have with other nations, etc?

Do you feel Top secret's documents should be available for public disseminations at all times?

I truly believe, there is some stuff on a need to know basis, and we don't need to know everything.

I do not like codifying secrecy. In any sphere.

Trying to keep secrets is different than making the disclosure of secrets illegal. Especially when keeping secrets is as futile as trying to protect intellectual property.

Between claims of "national security" and protecting the flock from bad books and misinformation we are regressing to an era that I thought had died before I was born. Other countries banned books and limited speech - not my countries.