Informing the Army’s Future Structure

[Kirkhill]

So in other words. Yes

Da, tovarisch!.

 

[Fabius]

• 31(1) The Governor in Council may place the Canadian Forces or any component, unit or other element thereof or any officer or non-commissioned member thereof on active service anywhere in or beyond Canada at any time when it appears advisable to do so
  
  (a) by reason of an emergency, for the defence of Canada;
  
  (b) in consequence of any action undertaken by Canada under the United Nations Charter; or
  
  (c) in consequence of any action undertaken by Canada under the North Atlantic Treaty, the North American Aerospace Defence Command Agreement or any other similar instrument to which Canada is a party.
  
  In relation to all the F2025 discussion in the Army there seems to be a reluctance to admit that the NDA actually has the above item within it. There also seems to be thinking that this can only be used in extremis, World War 3 has been declared etc. and that it can’t be used to mobilize a TBG for domestic operations nor to mobilize a Reserve Bn to do a named mission rotation.
  
  This thinking is odd since the federal cabinet literally approves OICs every month for everything from individual appointments to agencies to sanctions against Russia. OICs are not an in extremis tool.
  
  The only rational I can think of for the reluctance is that the NDA has no job protection, but is there any reason the OIC can’t have job protection written into it? At least until the NDA is amended.

 

[FJAG]

This thinking is odd since the federal cabinet literally approves OICs every month for everything from individual appointments to agencies to sanctions against Russia. OICs are not an in extremis tool.

The only rational I can think of for the reluctance is that the NDA has no job protection, but is there any reason the OIC can’t have job protection written into it? At least until the NDA is amended.

Boy, that's a hard one. Personally I have thought for a long time that the Feds have all the power they need to create comprehensive job protection legislation pursuant to their exclusive powers to legislate in matters of "Militia, Military and Naval Service, and Defence." under article 7 of s 91. Ordinarily labour law is considered an exclusively provincial matter under "Property and Civil Rights in the Province." under article 13 of s 92. However, the Feds legislate all manners of labour issues under industries which fall under Fed jurisdiction like banks, railroads, navigation etc.

I see absolutely no reason why the Feds could not enact a nationwide labour code related to military service. Rather than doing so, however, they negotiated very weak provincial legislation to be enacted across the country. I can only assume that some genius in DoJ has a different opinion than me or for whatever reason DND thinks that this is not the hill to die on. Considering the relatively low level of priority that the CAF places on reservists as a whole it doesn't surprise me that CAF has never pushed DND to push DoJ to make this a matter worth spending an effort on. It would be a significant undertaking to create a proper law, regulations and an enforcement infrastructure to do so. My guess is that the appetite to do so simply isn't there. @dapaterson may have some additional insight into the matter.

 

[Kirkhill]

Boy, that's a hard one. Personally I have thought for a long time that the Feds have all the power they need to create comprehensive job protection legislation pursuant to their exclusive powers to legislate in matters of "Militia, Military and Naval Service, and Defence." under article 7 of s 91. Ordinarily labour law is considered an exclusively provincial matter under "Property and Civil Rights in the Province." under article 13 of s 92. However, the Feds legislate all manners of labour issues under industries which fall under Fed jurisdiction like banks, railroads, navigation etc.

I see absolutely no reason why the Feds could not enact a nationwide labour code related to military service. Rather than doing so, however, they negotiated very weak provincial legislation to be enacted across the country. I can only assume that some genius in DoJ has a different opinion than me or for whatever reason DND thinks that this is not the hill to die on. Considering the relatively low level of priority that the CAF places on reservists as a whole it doesn't surprise me that CAF has never pushed DND to push DoJ to make this a matter worth spending an effort on. It would be a significant undertaking to create a proper law, regulations and an enforcement infrastructure to do so. My guess is that the appetite to do so simply isn't there. @dapaterson may have some additional insight into the matter.

The only rational I can think of for the reluctance is that the NDA has no job protection, but is there any reason the OIC can’t have job protection written into it? At least until the NDA is amended.

If the GoC can't interfere with provincial labour law, although they seem to find ways to interfere in many other provincial jurisdictions, can they manage the dislocation caused through "post-service" compensation? IE once the emergency is over manage the compensation so as to ensure that the member is made whole and allowed to pick up their life before the emergency? That may not mean the same job with the same employer but....

 

[lenaitch]

If the GoC can't interfere with provincial labour law, although they seem to find ways to interfere in many other provincial jurisdictions, can they manage the dislocation caused through "post-service" compensation? IE once the emergency is over manage the compensation so as to ensure that the member is made whole and allowed to pick up their life before the emergency? That may not mean the same job with the same employer but....

That sounds like an enhanced or modified EI program, except the loss of employment was voluntary. I'm not sure compensation and picking up one's life are completely equivalent. Would part-time military service (the apparent goal of such legislation) be made more attractive if I lost my job at the Honda plant in Ontario but was told there was a job for the same money in Manitoba sorting eggs?

I get the magnitude of the issue (or at least the magnitude it should have), I'm just not sure of a workable solution. I'm not even sure the federal government would even try to reach some sort of pan-provincial agreement given that it would burn a lot of political capital for little political return.

Typically, federal incursion into provincial playgrounds come with a bag-o-money, and I'm not sure how well that would work in this regard.

 

[FJAG]

If the GoC can't interfere with provincial labour law, although they seem to find ways to interfere in many other provincial jurisdictions, can they manage the dislocation caused through "post-service" compensation? IE once the emergency is over manage the compensation so as to ensure that the member is made whole and allowed to pick up their life before the emergency? That may not mean the same job with the same employer but....

I think that they could if they chose to make the cash available.

Just to be clear though, I do not think that a Federal law respecting reserve service would be "interfering in provincial labour law". It would be a stand alone Federal law to protect reservists from discriminatory practices by anyone within Canada. It would be national in character. One of the usual arguments that gets trucked out is that such legislation would cause reservists not being hired. I tend to think that's a bit of a canard and could be tempered by having incentive programs for employers accompany any the offence provisions.

IMHO one of the biggest challenges that reservists face vis a vis their employers is the almost randomness of reserve service. This could be tempered by having obligatory training set to a rigid training schedule established well in advance. I think something in the nature of ten weekends per year and a two - three week summer concentration would be acceptable because generally weekends are non working days and if set in advance could be easily worked around. Unpaid military time off during the summer over and above a mandatory provincial paid holiday period is a bit more challenging but not insurmountably so.

Incentives for employers do have a cost aspect for the Federal government, however, such incentives would still be significantly less expensive than the cost of a full-time soldier. Remember too that if one leveraged students' needs for paid summer work and subsidized education, one could create a reservist trained to full DP1 and even DP2 standards so that subsequent obligatory service would, for the most part, just be annual collective refresher training. Add to this that many of the leadership and administrative functions be taken over by full-timers and you end up with a capable hybrid unit.

 

[Kirkhill]

This could be tempered by having obligatory training set to a rigid training schedule established well in advance.

If Churches, Masons and Rotarians can maintain a rigid schedule surely the CAF can manage that as well.

 

[daftandbarmy]

I think that they could if they chose to make the cash available.

Just to be clear though, I do not think that a Federal law respecting reserve service would be "interfering in provincial labour law". It would be a stand alone Federal law to protect reservists from discriminatory practices by anyone within Canada. It would be national in character. One of the usual arguments that gets trucked out is that such legislation would cause reservists not being hired. I tend to think that's a bit of a canard and could be tempered by having incentive programs for employers accompany any the offence provisions.

I know several employers, some of them ex-military, who refuse to hire reservists because they always want time off to go do military stuff and leave behind extra work for everyone else. They are also unpredictable where, for example, a soldier gets two weeks off for a course and the employer backfills the job but then the course in cancelled (usually at the last minute) so now he has an extra employee to pay, with no recourse to recover the lost cash he pays out.

No other employees are like this, AFAIK.

If the employer is compensated by, for example, having the wages of the 'missing military member' covered by Canada, it would mean a little less pain and a greater incentive to hire and retain reservists.

RIght now the CAF is getting what it pays for, which isn't much.

 

[FJAG]

I know several employers, some of them ex-military, who refuse to hire reservists because they always want time off to go do military stuff and leave behind extra work for everyone else. They are also unpredictable where, for example, a soldier gets two weeks off for a course and the employer backfills the job but then the course in cancelled (usually at the last minute) so now he has an extra employee to pay, with no recourse to recover the lost cash he pays out.

No other employees are like this, AFAIK.

If the employer is compensated by, for example, having the wages of the 'missing military member' covered by Canada, it would mean a little less pain and a greater incentive to hire and retain reservists.

RIght now the CAF is getting what it pays for, which isn't much.

I quite understand and IMHO much of the fault with this rests with a reserve unit which puts what I consider unreasonable demands on individual reservists to do things during hours that ought to be the employer's.

I think the CAF needs to build a system where there is a covenant between the CAF, the reservist, the employer and the reservist's family which says "here's what we demand". One weekend a month, for example, interferes with very few employers and leaves the reservist's family with three weekends. When you start having them show up every two weekends and every Tuesday and Thursday night you can see a clear impact on both family and even employer.

Two weeks in the summer can be rough without some protective/incentivizing legislation. That needs working on.

For me, the big factor, as I alluded to above, is to absolutely maximize the training effort during the reservists school years when there are no competing family and employer concerns. Once trained, the only real necessity is to do a form of refresher training for the bulk of the unit.

Obviously, I think that there is very little ability to turn out the key officers and NCOs in the collective training needed to lead reserve companies within a battalion. That's why I think there is a need for integrating RegF personnel at that level. I would expect only a very few reservists would be able to graduate beyond captain and warrant officer level. I think that's an essential trade-off if we ever want to have a deployable reserve force without an unnecessary risk level.

But we've had this discussion before.

 

[daftandbarmy]

Hey CAF, never waste the opportunity in a good crisis....


Canada's troop commitment to eastern Europe is exposing weak points in its military

Canada relies on allies for air defence — and its CF-18s are too old to go up against Russian defences

For years, people in the defence community have been warning that the next big war would be a "come as you are" event — with each nation showing up and fighting with what it has.

The difference between victory and defeat would depend on how quickly and effectively a country could mobilize and manoeuvre its forces.

That sort of mentality permeated the Cold War. It divided Europe into two heavily armed camps for decades and cast a long shadow of nuclear terror across three generations.

The tanks, barbed wire and big guns have been gone since the early 1990s. The Liberal government's recent activation of 3,400 soldiers, sailors and aircrew for duty with the NATO Response Force (NRF) brought with it a chilling echo of those long-ago times.

It also exposed some of the major shortfalls facing the Canadian military in both personnel and equipment.

The Canadian Army, for example, has no dedicated air defence to keep soldiers on the ground safe from attack helicopters and fighter-bombers. As former army commander and now chief of the defence staff Gen. Wayne Eyre told CBC News two years ago, Canada relies on its allies for that kind of protection.

According to several defence analysts, Canada's four-decade old CF-18s would be vulnerable to Russia's modern S-400 Triumf air defence system.

The Royal Canadian Navy, with its newly modernized frigates, is hamstrung when it comes to forming task forces because its dedicated replenishment ship has little in the way of defensive systems needed for a war zone. It would have to be outfitted to defend itself and senior defence officials have long argued that makes the MV Asterix unsuitable and highlights the need to construct dedicated joint support ships.

Canada's current military representative at NATO, Vice-Admiral Scott Bishop, focused on the positive while testifying before a House of Commons committee on Wednesday. He was asked about the serviceability of the fighter jet fleet and noted the country has been called upon to perform a number of NATO air policing missions.

"We get a lot of credit from our allies for the job our men and women are doing in those missions," Bishop said. "I would say we do not see any impact in terms of our ability to deliver to NATO what we have committed."

When asked recently about the possible commitment of thousands of additional military members to Europe, Defence Minister Anita Anand said Canada has the capacity to meet its alliance commitments, even with its relatively small force of roughly 65,000 regular members and 30,000 reservists.

But there's a difference between military capacity and sustainability.

The pandemic's effects on military readiness

In 2019-20, before the pandemic hit, the Department of National Defence (DND) estimated that 80.3 per cent of the military could meet its operational obligations when called upon, according to federal budget documents tabled last spring. A target of 100 per cent readiness was to be achieved by 2025.

But COVID-19 has played havoc with the training exercises and courses meant to keep soldiers, sailors and aircrew ready and sharp.

Exactly how the pandemic has affected military operational readiness is not clear because the department says no up-to-date figures are available. Personnel may be generally ready to go, but there are concerns about the state of Canada's military equipment.

Analyzing Russia's strategy as convoy stalls north of Kyiv

"There is a risk that DND/CAF may have difficulty maintaining its materiel capabilities at the right level to support operations," the defence department's plans warned.

The budget documents show that in 2019-20, 98 per cent of the navy's ships and equipment were serviceable and ready to deploy as required.

Army, air force see decline in readiness

The army and air force were a different story. Only 65.4 per cent of army equipment and vehicles were considered serviceable — a steep decline from the previous budget year. The air force could muster only 60.8 per cent of its fleet for active service in the 2019-20 timeframe.

Canadian troops in Afghanistan used a phrase cribbed from the Americans to describe the Ottawa establishment's approach to the war: "The army is at war and the nation is at the mall."

It's that peacetime mentality that one former top army commander says Canada needs to set aside as it confronts the current crisis.

Retired lieutenant-general Andrew Leslie says the stakes for Ukraine and the world are unimaginably high. (CBC)

Retired lieutenant-general and former Liberal MP Andrew Leslie said previous Liberal and Conservative governments did move swiftly in some cases to equip the army for Afghanistan — but the effort quickly bogged down.

It took an independent, blue-ribbon panel led by former Liberal cabinet minister John Manley to demand that the military get all of the equipment it needed — including helicopters and leased drones — to fight the Taliban.

Leslie said the circumstances today are much more dire.

"This is different," he said. "This has the potential to be World War Three if we get it wrong, if we don't let deterrence do its job.

"And to make deterrence effective we have to do our job, which is to treat it with the urgency and the gravitas it deserves."

If western democracies like Canada "get this wrong, the sociopath that is leading this assault on the innocent people of Ukraine may think he can keep going," Leslie said, referring to Russian President Vladimir Putin.

Send the troops in now, says Leslie

There is a Canadian battle group of 500 troops in Latvia and a commitment to send an artillery battery of 120 troops, along with another frigate for the alliance's standing fleet and an air force maritime surveillance plane.

Anand has said Canada is waiting for NATO's call to deliver the 3,400 additional soldiers, sailors and aircrew. But Leslie said he believes they should go now, following the unilateral reinforcement of garrisons in eastern Europe by the U.S. and the United Kingdom.

"We need the maximum number of troops that we've been promising NATO for years," he said. "So let's deliver as soon as possible.

"And by as soon as possible, I don't mean 30, 60, 90 days. I mean within a week, two weeks."

The equipment could follow those troops overseas, he added.

Canada's Ambassador to NATO David Angell, testifying before the Commons defence committee on Wednesday, said that the alliance has not yet seen any sign that Russia is prepared to attack targets outside of Ukraine.

NATO says it is prepared and has activated five defensive plans to respond should the situation escalate.

Because the Canadian military is small, Leslie said, it should change some of its regular routines in order to meet the challenge in eastern Europe.

For decades, the Canadian army has rotated its battalions through war zones and peacekeeping duties in deployments of six to nine months. With such a relatively large force going into eastern Europe, Leslie said, the army should recognize it needs to keep troops in theater — possibly for the duration, as it did during the Second World War.

"Worry about rotations later," Leslie said. "If they're going to be there for years, fine. If the troops are needed for six months or a year, they can go and they stay.

"This is an emergency. Just ask the people of Ukraine."

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canada-ukraine-russia-putin-canadian-armed-forces-1.6370874

 

[FJAG]

I read the article this morning and my immediate impression was that Brewster was just skimming the surface. Honestly, I think he could be writing several months' worth of feature articles on this subject if he just put a little bit of effort into it.

 

[KevinB]

I read the article this morning and my immediate impression was that Brewster was just skimming the surface. Honestly, I think he could be writing several months' worth of feature articles on this subject if he just put a little bit of effort into it.

Skimming is too deep a word

 

[GK .Dundas]

Skimming is too deep a word

I am still astounded by the fact that this is given so little coverage given everything that is happening. It's gotten to the point that I've begun to believe that if you look up the definition of insular in the dictionary you'd find a map of Canada.

 

[GK .Dundas]

Does.anyone know what happened to all those M113s as well as the 60 odd Leos ?
Looks like we.might still need them.
If not there is always all those Abrams sitting in open air storage in California and Texas.

 

[MJP]

Does.anyone know what happened to all those M113s as well as the 60 odd Leos ?
Looks like we.might still need them.
If not there is always all those Abrams sitting in open air storage in California and Texas.

I see what is left of the LEO 1s everyday but they are not coming back from the dead. Not many left and the rest are at a contractor getting ready to be targets in Cold Lake

Repurposed Leopard 1 tanks invade Vegreville | Globalnews.ca

The central Alberta town has been invaded by a part of Canadian military history.

globalnews.ca

 

[GK .Dundas]

I know the Leo's are a dead issue but I suspect we may not be able to access Leo2s as Germany I suspect is going to be trying rebuild their panzer korps.
That is why I mentioned the Abrams.
I suspect that we may very well have to rebuild in a hurry the question is where are we going to get all that gear.

 

[MJP]

I know the Leo's are a dead issue but I suspect we may not be able to access Leo2s as Germany I suspect is going to be trying rebuild their panzer korps.
That is why I mentioned the Abrams.
I suspect that we may very well have to rebuild in a hurry the question is where are we going to get all that gear.

Not to say it isn't doable but we are literally not set up in any way shape or form to take on the Abrams. The easiest part would likely be getting them, marrying up the Armoured with the vehs and getting them trained to fight them. The STTE (testing and tooling equipment), parts, infra, support vehs and technicians needs are the hidden part of the iceberg in that equation.

Canada can ill afford to run two tank fleets, as it is we already run 3 variants within a our single fleet and it is killing us

 

[KevinB]

Not to say it isn't doable but we are literally not set up in any way shape or form to take on the Abrams. The easiest part would likely be getting them, marrying up the Armoured with the vehs and getting them trained to fight them. The STTE (testing and tooling equipment), parts, infra, support vehs and technicians needs are the hidden part of the iceberg in that equation.

Canada can ill afford to run two tank fleets, as it is we already run 3 variants within a our single fleet and it is killing us

Maybe trade the Leo 2’s back to the Germans.
Get M1A2 PIP or whatever the current line variant is being called.

 

[MJP]

Maybe trade the Leo 2’s back to the Germans.
Get M1A2 PIP or whatever the current line variant is being called.

We had the Leo 2s since let's say 2010 ( there are nuances to that date as we had them before then but they were on loan)

Regardless in the decade and a bit since we fielded the Leo to we can still barely keep them running in a sustainable way. We have barely even addressed a number of the concerns including recovery, transportation, overhaul and most importantly infrastructure needed to support tanks. We have we have stretched the technician line to the point that the Canadian Army almost individually manages technicians that are qualified to repair tanks. We have no capacity to turn that all over and ramp up another line without some significant significant effort.

I know war might be that significant effort but we're not at that stage nor do I think we will go down that road anytime soon.

 

[FJAG]

We had the Leo 2s since let's say 2010 ( there are nuances to that date as we had them before then but they were on loan)

Regardless in the decade and a bit since we fielded the Leo to we can still barely keep them running in a sustainable way. We have barely even addressed a number of the concerns including recovery, transportation, overhaul and most importantly infrastructure needed to support tanks. We have we have stretched the technician line to the point that the Canadian Army almost individually manages technicians that are qualified to repair tanks. We have no capacity to turn that all over and ramp up another line without some significant significant effort.

I know war might be that significant effort but we're not at that stage nor do I think we will go down that road anytime soon.

This is what makes me hot under the collar every time the CAF divests another capability.

When I was with G Bty in the early eighties not only was 10% of the battery's manpower made up by our 15 man maintenance detachment but because we were a flyover force for 4 CMBG, there were another 15 maintainers looking after the Z Bty guns that we would fly on to.

It takes time to build and train a team like that and while I could probably rebuild the artillery component of a new SP battery these days in a matter of three to six months, I sincerely doubt that one could get a sufficiently well trained maintenance team together that could look after the heavy tracks, the weapons systems, and the electronics and optics in under a year - more like two probably.